If AI keeps evolving,would you worry about your next generation's survival
Imagine this. Twenty years from now, if AI is capable of handling all work, how will your kids make ends meet? If you want to prevent that future, what should you be doing today?
Why would we want to PREVENT that!?
We should just be paving the way for the necessary social safety net so they don't have to work and won't starve.
Not throw the baby out with the bath water. Who WANTS to have to work!?
"Don't invent the replicator because nobody will have to make tea. "Because to feel useful, to have pride in your accomplishments, to rest well at night knowing you did a good days work feeds the soul. To have all human work matter no more than a zoo enrichment program would be the death knell of a sentient species.
>Because to feel useful, to have pride in your accomplishments, to rest well at night knowing you did a good days work feeds the soul.
None of this requires selling your labor to a company to pay rent on your existence. The premise that the value of a human life is equivalent to the value created for an employer is capitalist propaganda. You are not your job, and your efforts have value beyond their value to the market.
are you american protestant perchance? your perspective is shaped by your cultural milieu and is not a firm objective fact.
i get much more satisfaction out of preparing a meal or reading a good book than work. i like to choose what i work on, rather than be told by the prevailing wage rate what work i should do.
caring for a child is one of the most valuable and rewarding activities, but it is not rewarded monetarily. that doesn't make it less valuable or worthwhile.
Look I essentially agree with you, but I also recognize all three as “work”. As technology floods society people do less of all three even before AI but household robotics will definitely come after cooking and childcare in an unprecedented way. Reading is perhaps a slight stretch to define as work as you and I both read for pleasure but given how sharply reading rates have dropped in the face of short form video (which to me is not work to consume), it is also clearly under threat. Many humans seem to choose shallow convenience over the expenditure of any effort for deeper rewards. Teaching children that working at something to master it is both intrinsically worthwhile and deeply rewarding is one of the main jobs of parenting as I’m sure you’ll agree. Regardless, not everyone would be contented by having only a few useful avenues left, not everyone finds satisfaction in cooking, reading or child care. In fact I’d argue that most people do not find deep satisfaction in any of these three. Nor in the handful of others that often pop up, music, art, dance, etc. Humans are varied and having 30% feel rootless and unfulfilled traditionally leads to political extremism and war.
I have never felt sense of accomplishment from paid work in my entire life. The only times I got anything resembling that was from unmonetizable hobbies.
I am sad for you and I hope you find a way to combine the two some day, but I hope you understand that not everyone feels that way. I imagine that you can understand in concept anyway how fulfilling it would be to combine material reward with something you would pursue even without that reward.
That level of idealism only works if the capitalist system heavily changes so the poor can afford to purchase “replicators” which do not exist today. As it is right now if AI/robots take your job you can easily wind up on the street unable to afford food, shelter, medical care
Kurt Vonnegut, "Player Piano", tackles this.
The Western world is so thoroughly indoctrinated that it is simply easier to imagine the apocalypse than the end of capitalism.
Those who can do something about it, they won't do anything as it's a power/money game for them. Those who care about it, they can barely do anything.
So, just prepare by saving money, investing and upskilling just to keep your brain sharp to figure it out when that future hits all of us.
> just prepare by saving money, investing and upskilling
AI upskills faster and better than you.
> Those who care about it, they can barely do anything.
Why is that? The question is important because, as I already mentioned, kicking the can down the road doesn't work when the road abruptly ends in an abyss not far from where you are.
> just to keep your brain sharp to figure it out when that future hits all of us.
Collectively waiting to be collectively hit is the collective idea of a fish swarm swimming in front of a trawl.
The change between now and 20 years into future won't be anything spectacular than the change that happened over the last 20 years.
So, look back. How different was 2006? For me, it feels like it just happened last year.
So, don't get excited. The prophecies that begin with "X years from now,..." - never happen.
> The prophecies that begin with "X years from now,..." - never happen.
Don't worry from now, this one already happened. Ignorance is bliss.
In 2006 we weren't running with supercomputers and high definition cameras able to broadcast to the world within seconds of pulling it out...
Anyway, outside of tech, we're at the start of a Godzilla El Nino and 6 or 7 climate tipping points already tipped; there's a genocide while we're busy having influencer-induced FOMO (1), fascism rising and resource shortages aren't getting better (Guess why gas is so high at the moment...).
same as it ever was
It feels like last year but the tech is vastly different.
Mildly worried.
But I think most of what is useful today to teach children (to be independent, persistent, empathetic, thoughtful, etc) will still be useful in whatever future we end up in. I think even skills that may be obsolete will probably be good for training their brain, like, perhaps speaking more languages won't help because we'll all have star-trek-like communicators, but the mental flexibility won't be wasted.
I'm not sure what will happen with higher studies, my kids are small. Maybe they'll study something and by the end of university there won't be a job market for it. But that could always happen, and some paths always had more career opportunities or less.
Beyond education, I try to save some money (invest in some global index fund) and hopefully that will help. I was always going to do that anyway, it just feels a bit more necessary now.
Agree, even if AI does most of the things, we can't stop learning, otherwise our mind will become totally dependant on machines even for processing.
I find it unlikely that governments will just let majority of people starve to death. Both due to unrest and because someone has be able to buy stuff for the economy to function. UBI seems inevitable to me.
But also, I'm an antinatalist for unrelated reasons so would not have children either way.
I agree mostly, but people won't necessarily have to buy stuff in the future. If the rich can operate an autonomous supply chain from raw materials extraction to manufacture with AI and robots, then they don't even need the economy to function. They can just bypass a people-working economy altogether.
Many young people already can't afford houses and are in a terrible job market. The ladder got pulled from them a while ago and would love a revolution. Look at the people they idolise, it is either Elon (usually guys) or Mamdani. They want change.
People wonder why Trump and Bernie were so popular when he was campaigning. It’s the same reason. Sending tons of jobs to China starting in the 80s then nafta in the 90s left a lot of people behind and disrupted their lives. There were benefits from this policy but the sudden disruptions were tragic to a lot of families. The problem seems self-reinforcing when a far-right (or left) candidate is elected like Trump who exploits the desperate voters that elected him. It is important not to leave people behind or have them feel left behind. Contempt towards the less fortunate - eg Trumpers or those at the other side of culture issues - is counterproductive and misses the forces at play.
I'm more worried about TikTok than AI when it comes to future generations.
This ^
How many things from 30 years ago are still working without issue or regular maintenance.
Things will always change, there will always be jobs. AI will be a tool to use, good robots will be expensive, cheap robots will breakdown, everything will require some form of sales, management, maintenance etc.
I don't understand this perspective. Not all change is analogous to previous change. For instance, human beings invented the automatic rifle, but we never even thought of implementing a global non-profileration treaty like we tried with nuclear weapons.
AI could possibly throw the world into a great chaos. We've seen financial collapses before like the great depression. Who's to say that something even more disastrous couldn't happen with a tool that's unlike one we've ever seen before that can replace labor a lot faster than any tool we've ever seen before?
Tools are never just tools: they also influence the change of society to a great extent and societies have breaking points. Sales, management, and maintenance could eventually be automated also.
Lots of people would have sworn a decade ago that creative mathematical thinking was outside the domain of a machine. Now look what's happened.
I think you have to accept that life is full of change. The world all around you is changing and you are best prepared by not having a fixed mindset or rigid skill set.
Regardless of how automated parts of society become, there will always be a need for someone to do something.
You should always tinker and experiment with new things, that’s where you find opportunity.
If everyone’s out of a job, the world will figure it out
Ah yea, everyone will suddenly see their socialist side and all will be well...
Wouldn't it be ironic if AI is the best way to manage a socialist society and they start building it on their own.
Maybe they will maybe they won’t but the solution definitely isn’t trying to block something inevitable and frankly exciting.
It’s just another “don’t look up” issue.
We’ve known about global warming for years and ignored it. People know and still buy bigger cars every year.
Pick up trucks are so huge now you can’t see the child you’re about to run over and they sell like hot cakes.
In surveys truck owners say they only care about occupant safety. They know about the issue for pedestrians, they just don’t care.
Same with shifting industrial production and jobs to China. We know these things are problems for the next generation. When it comes to purchases people don’t care.
Why would AI be any different?
Funny (sad?) thing is, none of these you listed are hard to predict. The details of some issues are more complex (like global warming) but overall problem in a nutshell is not hard to understand at all. It is just common sense that a bigger/taller truck makes it hard to see pedestrians. People still do not care, some even pretend to not understand.
Most people will not care about something until it affects them directly and immediately. We can debate the reasons for this, but that time might be better spent in working around humanity's apathy. Maybe make renewable energy super cheap and easy, better tech to track pedestrians so as to not hit them etc
Yup, like the Easter Islanders, what were they thinking when they cut down the last tree?
I think this idea is thought to be a gross oversimplification https://theconversation.com/the-truth-about-easter-island-a-...
AI will be used for total surveillance in the first place. So totalitarian governments, welcome on in
a) it's not twenty years from now, it's much less than that.
b) you cannot prevent that future, because the incentives are huge and enforcement is extremely hard, at all levels, from the superpowers to the individuals.
c) besides, imagine a world where most jobs are still being done by paid humans, all knowing that their work could be done much better and cheaper by a machine. Basically a world where your daily labour isn't really necessary but just a proof-of-work to get a monthly salary. Isn't that awful? I would rather take a pay cut on my last salary and use my time in a different way.
d) how will they make ends meet? Nobody knows. It might be a combination of everything being much cheaper and/or heavily subsidized, and some form of basic income.
I wouldn’t mind a society in which I don’t have to work to live happily and comfortably.
Nor would most of us.
You seem supremely confident that that will be the outcome, though. A lot of us see a lot of other possible ways this could end up, and that seem more likely considering the way the people who have the most influence have been behaving.
I'm not sure why you read supreme confidence in my message. I also think that it is unlikely that we will stop working anytime soon.
It seems a bit too easy to manipulate people these days. We are all manipulated, I'm no exception. It's hard to hear the talking points of some billionaires from the mouths of loved family members.
Will the few extremely rich people manage to maintain some neo-feudalism over many generations, or will they experience the guillotine? Who knows.
It will be like Zardoz.
This is a perennial question
Scenario 1:
The future technology will be capable of handling much of current work, but we'll invent new forms of work, with more stress and higher salaries.
Salaries for people in professions that couldn't be replaced will also go up to match, making bespoke work even more expensive.
Scenario 2:
We let machines do all the work and declare a communist utopia. (Bonus: we give them names that are low in gravitas)
So far, scenario 2 hasn't happened yet, but you never know.
The wealthy owners of tech companies and other businesses will keep maximizing profits, just as capitalism demands. I think my kids will be learning skilled trades instead. AI will never replace builders or electricians.
It's worth thinking about economic systems where everyone gets funds and a good time - a bit each according to their needs, but something that could actually get voted in. Traditional socialism doesn't work because it's bad at wealth creation but if the AIs are producing the wealth you can redesign it.
anyone who looks at the growing fascism in American and across the world isn't worried about "AI"
such a weird self centered bullshit.
You can worry about more than one thing at the same time.
>anyone who looks at the growing fascism in American and across the world isn't worried about "AI"
AI is deeply integrated into the global fascist project. Worries about Skynet and Roko's Basilisk and the like are nonsense, but anyone concerned about fascism should be worried about the way these platforms centralize, control and generate narratives as well as manipulate people on an emotional level. AI encompasses everything that everyone hates and fears about social media, dialed up to 11.
Sure it is, but it's just a bullshit factory. The problem existed a decade ago at it's latest.
The same way _you_ shouldn't care about twitter, online media, etc, doesn't change with AI's use.
I'm not worried, because the kids keep getting more handouts up front than our generation(s).
Remember, young adults - student loan relief was socialism as we hand out hundreds and thousands of Trump Accounts across the nation for the same thing to the next generation.