Settings

Theme

Wax motor

en.wikipedia.org

423 points by mhb · 78 comments

Reader

22 threads
yccs27

I always wondered what the actuator in the exhaust air valve for my apartment ventilation was - now I'm pretty sure it's a wax motor! You can use a switch to increase the airflow, but it takes a few seconds to react and opens/closes very slowly and quietly.

limaoscarjuliet

Wikipedia page has a small error. It shows an actuator (i.e. wax motor) described as thermostatic radiator valve https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wax_motor#/media/File:Thermisc...

These are two separate things: thermostat will close and open based on surrounding temp., the actuator on the other hand opens and closes based on energizing a heating element that is driven by a separate thermostat.

Wax motors are pretty cool things. They rarely fail and do their job even in damp environments. I take care of my better half's hotel with approx 100 of these installed and we replace one of these once every couple of years.

  • ta988

    As you seem to know how to explain that would you mind fixing it? You don't even need an account.

  • echoangle

    Wouldn't the thermostatic radiator valves contain a wax motor? According to the definition in the article, using ambient heat as the energy source counts. Or are you saying it's only a wax motor if there's electric heating?

    • jaggederest

      My understanding is that wax motors are based on actuation - they are intentionally and deliberately either heated to extend or cooled to retract, and if ambient temperature is used as one endpoint, the other will not be ambient (i.e. a heating element or cooling peltier).

      Thermostatic valves are ambient at both sides - they expand and contract naturally with the existing temperature, so they are not motors per se, because there's no actuation beyond the temperature.

      • VygmraMGVl

        Why does there need to be a thermal gradient? It seems like the action driving the actuator is the expansion of the wax due to temperature. You don't need a persistent heat flux to get that, the wax just needs enough heat warm up and change phase.

        Edit: also, the actuation from the wax motor only happens while it is absorbing (or losing) heat, even if it later ends up in a steady state with no heat flux.

        • jaggederest

          There needs to be a gradient or the wax won't move due to temperature. The motion is the change in state, as you say, but it won't change state if you don't heat or cool it.

          That's why it's a motor, like in dishwashers, not a thermostat like in e.g. greenhouse windows or radiators.

          It doesn't need to be persistent, but without some way to create a state that is different than ambient, it's not a motor.

          • echoangle

            I disagree, I think motor in this case only means “creating movement”. The motor is the thing creating movement depending on the ambient temperature.

            Also you seem to have a miscommunication with the person replying to where they are talking about a special thermal gradient and you mean it in a temporal sense.

          • weltensturm

            The wax expands due to ambient (even uniform) temperature. It's a linear actuator, so warm -> expanded and cool -> retracted.

            • echoangle

              I think by thermal gradient they mean a change in temperature over time, not space.

  • jansan

    > They rarely fail and do their job even in damp environments. I take care of my better half's hotel with approx 100 of these installed and we replace one of these once every couple of years.

    I had to replace about half of them within the first ten years of usage in our floor heating. It may have been a bad batch, but I would definitely not claim that the rarely fail. My car did not fail once during that time.

  • croemer

    I'm not sure I get what you mean.

    There are commercial thermostats where the wax element itself is both the temperature sensor and the actuator, eg Thera-100 T1002W0.

  • agumonkey

    I was quite amazed to find these when dismantling appliances.

  • pak9rabid

    Boy I really hope somebody got fired for that blunder!

palmotea

If you want to see one in action, I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sApyrDEXGAI

bonkabonka

Big Clive took one to bits some years back: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPuvhnIoz2g

  • LeoPanthera

    What a treasure Big Clive is. Educational, entertaining, and zero of those YouTube cliches and clickbait that everyone hates. I don't think he's ever said "Like and subscribe" literally ever.

  • EA-3167

    That’s exactly what I needed to see, thank you!

cbdumas

I'm surprised this page doesn't mention the automotive thermostat which uses the same principle to control the flow of coolant between the engine block and radiator in an ICE vehicle.

kazinator

The expansion of paraffin wax is substantial. I have experience wax potting guitar pickups as well as bicycle chains. I use a skinny, tall tin can for this, placed in boiling water. When the liquid wax solidifies, it not only pulls away from the sides of the can so that the resulting ingot slides out freely, but a void forms in the center. The top surface has a depression and a deep hole in the center.

WJW

Using this as a greenhouse vent actuator is pretty cool. It just makes so much sense.

modeless

I love alternative types of actuators. Electromagnetic motors are great but they're pretty complex to make, require rare earth metals for best efficiency, and require gearing in most applications. I think in the far future most of our devices will be using other types of actuators, probably made mostly of organic materials. There are many concepts for alternative actuators that just need some breakthrough materials to work.

rogerdickey

Wax elements are also used in thermostatic valves for faucets (to keep faucet temperature constant given variable hot and cold mains): https://rogerdickey.com/the-ideal-faucet/

  • leoedin

    Thermostatic mixers make sense for continuous flow applications - showers, filling a large bathtub for example. But I don't think they make sense for a kitchen tap - where you might be filling a small basin.

    The goal is that the water in the basin is the correct temperature, not the stream filling it - which means you need to compensate every time based on how much cold is already there before the hot water arrives. And that varies seasonally.

    The time it takes for hot water to arrive tends to be a big proportion of the total time the tap is running, so you actually don't want controlled 40C water once hot water arrives. Perhaps if you had instant hot water, this would be useful.

  • paradox460

    Moen figured out a good enough solution without wax called moentrol

    Push/pull adjusts volume, rotation adjusts hot/cold mix

  • sublinear

    Hard disagree with that faucet design, but is a neat idea. I like my bathroom faucet as low maintenance as it already is.

    The use case for the full unmixed hot tap is hygiene (usually washing face and shaving).

    I also don't want any hot water mixed in when I'm washing my hands. The water coming out of the unmixed cold tap indicates the ambient temperature of the pipes. That's a feature, not a bug.

    • discardable_dan

      You should use warm water when you're washing your hands.

      • sublinear

        Why?

        I'm already upset enough about what the water heater water is doing to my skin and am about to go tankless under my bathroom sink!

        That's by far the more practical option anyway if we truly cared about the problem instead of fawning over engineer porn. The problem is solved. This is pointless engagement about temperature preference masquerading as something more interesting.

        • maxerickson

          It used to be public health recommendation (bathrooms in commercial buildings will often only have warm water, for example, because code required it).

          There's been studies demonstrating that soap is what matters.

        • mkmk

          Solubility is a function of temperature.

    • rogerdickey

      at least in my home, both the cold and the hot water are very uncomfortable to wash my hands in, but mixing it right takes ~15s every time so i usually just accept the discomfort

      • lstodd

        there is this thing named "Single Lever Wash Basin Mixer Tap".

        • LtdJorge

          I think it takes time because the hot water line doesn’t immediately return hot water

geokon

Seems this would make it possible to make a relatively cheap waterproof actuator if you made it out of something corrosion resistant?

I've been looking for actuators to use in damp/wet environments and sealed actuators are rather expensive and supposedly don't last too long

  • Centigonal

    Some hot water radiator systems use wax actuated valves made from brass (Taco brand is common). They are extremely simple and robust.

    • geokon

      thank you for the pointer!

      I've struggled to protect eletronics. Waterproof enclosures all fail over time. Though I have some ideas for immersion in mineral oil. But finding actuators that could work has been a bit of a struggle. These look cool, though maybe not something one could run off 5V :) Ill keep looking around

  • bartread

    This is why wax motors are used for washing machine door locks.

    • geokon

      how does it work for a door lock?it seem it works pretty slowly.

      Mayne you know, are the internal components already designed with corrosion in mind?

curtisblaine

I have this in the greenhouse that came with my house. Seeing its roof closed in fall after it had been open all summer made me question my sanity.

21asdffdsa12

Imagine if you will- a 3d sintered (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintering) sand structure. Placed in it is heat collecting material- aka salty-brine- which stores heat as a kind of battery. Placed within it are waxmotors as actuators. Placed within it are nodes with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silica_gel - the whole thing is literally dumb as a printed rock, but also capable to do work powered by the sun.

It collects moisture from the air, distills the water out of the silica gel and stores it- then releases it in the evening to plants at the root. A terraforming rock, printed in-situ, with materials available in situ (well except silica gel, optical fibers and wax-motors).

Fordec

Huh. Do these work in a vacuum? Presumably if sealed right? I imagine there's a few space applications, particularly with solar panels.

  • tesseract

    Yeah, they are used in space. I don't work directly in this field, but have discussed wax motors with some newspace/smallsat folks, and get the impression they are popular for the same reason nitinol wire actuators are: few moving parts, no rotary bearings, resettable/multi-use unlike pyrotechnic actuators.

Trace88

My old espresso machine had one of these, always amazed by the simplicity and robustness. Low-tech solutions often hit different.

ddlsmurf

I got one from a microwave, it opened vents. It is incredibly strong, also, takes soo much power and is so slow - although i suppose near heat it must work great.

razorbeamz

Isn't this more like a solenoid than a motor?

moron4hire

Objects like this make me think of grimdark (steam|diesel)punk works like the video games Dishonored or BioShock. It feels like there's a touch of occultism or corruption whenever one creates a device that exploits analog side effects to create machines in a closed, black-box package.

  • wvbdmp

    I see what you mean, but it’s less the exploitation itself than its immediacy and legibility. It doesn’t vanish behind a million abstractions or complicated miniaturization processes but can be readily experienced and understood, like steam.

    On the other hand one might as well associate it with “solar punk”, especially when powered by ambient temperature.

    • bee_rider

      Yes, it seems generally *punk. It’s funny that steam, diesel, and solar punk have this association with immediacy.

      Does the originator, cyberpunk? Lots of cyberpunk stories present us with a society that is dominated by a digital abstraction. But the protagonist is special, so, they might not be.

      • relaxing

        I think the “punk” in cyberpunk was about the AI having a gritty, streetwise protagonist to enable it/fight against it. Extremely immediate.

  • WJW

    I have bad news to tell you about your "digital" computer.

  • quickthrowman

    > Objects like this make me think of grimdark (steam|diesel)punk works like the video games Dishonored or BioShock. It feels like there's a touch of occultism or corruption whenever one creates a device that exploits analog side effects to create machines in a closed, black-box package.

    The second sentence also fits for field effect transistors and solid state electronics in general.

    In the spirit of grimdark steampunk, have you ever heard of pneumatic logic? I still see these systems operating normally in some older mechanical rooms, it’s cool to see them still working after 40-50 years.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_circuit

post_break

My mini truck uses a couple of these with vacuum lines to control the choke and EGR. They are expensive to replace for obvious reasons.

alexpotato

The greenhouse vents example reminds me a lot of a float valve (or ballcock).

It's a simple mechanism that used buoyancy to either open or close valves as water level changes in a container.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballcock

ck2

now go blow your mind with the first known conversion of electrical to mechanical energy via "Franklin Bells"

TWO HUNDRED SEVENTY FIVE years ago

in 1752, wow

(but they had no idea why it worked)

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_bells

Before the storm, the device would ring to remind Franklin, who had been obsessed with the study of lightning, urging him to chase the lightning

ha "chase the lightning" needs to be a catchphrase

  • BobbyTables2

    We’ll circle back, launch our go to market strategy, and chase the lightning for a win…

IshKebab

I once had an interview at PA consulting where they asked one of those questions where they have "the answer" but their question isn't well specified enough to lead to that unique answer. They kept adding conditions, but I hadn't ever heard of wax actuators before. (I was like 19 or something - didn't get that job!)

phyzome

...what is the point of starting this post with an egregious slop image?

  • cwillu

    Did you post this on the wrong link? The first image is literally just a photo of a part, you can look up the part number.

  • fourthark

    The Wikipedia page?

Keyboard Shortcuts

j
Next item
k
Previous item
o / Enter
Open selected item
?
Show this help
Esc
Close modal / clear selection