Steam Frame starts at $1059
store.steampowered.comI know everyone is singing the praises of the Steam Frame's wireless capabilities but honestly, I just want my wired VR experience back.
I had a Rift 2, Reverb G2, then Quest 2 and eventually Quest 3. Despite the Quest 3 having a resolution similar to the G2, it looked more like the Rift 2 than the awe inspiring G2. Wireless gaming never looked as sharp and streaming over USB was also a very poor experience, with input latency and artifacting.
Wireless headsets also _suck_ for simulators and productivity - where a battery only adds weights and a wire is not noticable.
Personally, I would love to see a wired headset that resembles the bigscreen beyond but with inside out tracking and a universal face gasket. For wireless experiences, I'd love to be able to plug my phone in, put it in my back pocket and use it that way.
That sort of "head mounted display"-first approach would make it practical to use the device for productivity / screen replacement while gaming would be dependant on your phone or computer.
Half-Life Alyx is the greatest gaming experience I have ever had the pleasure to witness. I now occasionally VR golf. It's a steep price for a niche with not a lot of games.
Everyone is missing maybe the biggest point - this isn't just a VR device. You can run some/many (depending on your library) of your regular Steam games on a 'flat screen' inside the VR environment, which makes this much more like a SteamDeck with a giant private screen for a lot of people.
This machine runs Linux, it comes with KDE. This is the open Apple Vision Pro alternative that you can use as a real computer.
It comes with a black and white passthrough camera but you can add on a 5K color one.
There's ongoing work for a full Plasma XR mode, so you aren't restricted to a "virtual desktop" experience: https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwin/-/merge_requests/8671
Being able to comfortably sit back / lie down and work is an interesting proposition. The Apple Vision Pro is too bulky and expensive to carry that whole category on its own, they need an 'Android equivalent'. But I think Apple messed this up by creating an absolute patent minefield (some 5k patents for AVP features iirc).
> Android equivalent
That's the samsung galaxy xr which is cheaper and lighter but it's not good enough run high resolution content for long periods without thermal throttling
The Frame's screens aren't good enough for general computing. This is purely an entertainment device.
As far as I've kept track, a good-enough-for-reading headset doesn't exist yet. So it's not like Frame bad, it's whole industry still bad.
I disagree and I've got one
So it may be a good wirk machine to use during long flights, with a compact wireless keyboard.
Unless you fly first class, using a laptop on a plane is painful.
The question here is whatever Steam Frame displays resolution is sufficient to work with text. So far only mass produced device that was really suitable is a Vision Pro.
So far all reviews I've seen been centered around gaming and not work.
I work on a Quest 3 no problem. This is sharper.
Honestly I'be tried Quest 3 and it was not enough for me to consider it anything more than just a toy.
How many hours a day you spend in it? How often do you use it?
Most days often for several hours.
Also only possible if you've got a power outlet (Surprisingly even today many long haul flights do not) as its only got just over an hour of battery life.
It has a 21.6 Wh battery. You can easily get a power bank 3+ times this capacity, thus can last 4x longer. If anything, I would rather have that weight in my pocket or backpack than on my head, all things considered.
Can't use power banks on many flights now
Anecdotal, but on the last few flights that I've taken. I was told that you can use them, but you can't charge them on the flight. This was inside the US, American Airlines, and United. I can't speak to the other airlines.
> https://invent.kde.org/plasma/kwin/-/merge_requests/8671
This is Compiz Fusion [1,] 20 years later.
If only the Steam Frame had a decent pass through mode.
I think even that's an understatement.
My tinfoil-hat take is that Lepton looks like it's just aimed at Facebook but will ultimately make Google's Android less... uniquely impenetrable. Certain hardware-dependent stuff will probably never fully work here (GPS for instance), but having a registry of what is and isn't compatible with a third-party Android derivative, on a specific reference device, will benefit every third-party Android derivative. And not that it won't have similar anticheat issues, but having a games ecosystem outside of Google Play will also cover some of the infrastructure that would require that dependency otherwise -- including payments.
And not that I don't see a net positive if gacha games never successfully make the jump... but as a Linux device there's also a lot of stuff where you just don't have to care about Play Integrity, because instead you can just run the PC version and/or a desktop browser.
(edit: shameless plug for my recent, longer writeup on this @ bhmt.dev/blog/frame)
Admittedly my VR glasses are older, but for me this is a really terrible experience. If a game lacks native VR support, it's far more comfortable to just use my widescreen monitor in the real world.
I'd agree even if the resolution is closer to a real monitor I'd really rather not have a headset strapped to my face to play the same games I could play on a tv or monitor.
For sure. I think this is more for someone who wants something portable though.
Same. I'd say it's ridiculous to even mention it as a feature, it's more like a compatibility fallback. A shitty monitor showing an even shittier monitor while you have a fat brick strapped to your face. Maybe this gen is better, but from what reviewers say the practical hardware changes are very minimal.
What's more interesting is that it's a linux desktop open for tinkering. Maybe lots of virtual desktops all around, could probably get Blender to run in it too.
You don't need 4k in the headset panels to simulate a 4k monitor. The virtual screen isn't glued to your head.
No, you need a much higher res screen to do so. A 4k screen a meter away will have ridiculously higher pixel density per degree of vision than a 2K screen directly in front of your eye that will only ever be able to do very partial coverage. The effective angular res of the virtual screen would probably be comparable to 1080p at best. In Norm's review it's said that the default render res for flat screen is 720p.
I don’t see that as the biggest point. I really don’t have much interest in playing normal games in VR.
I could see how a kid might want that on Quest when they don’t have their own TV. And it might be nice on a plane.
But $1000 is a lot for that. I know people say that watching video in the Vision Pro is really nice, I wasn’t that thrilled when I tried it, but it felt to me more like a “you can do this because you have the hardware“ not a “this is why you buy it” feature.
Honestly as a VR enthusiast this is the least interesting feature by far.
If I want to game with glasses I'll just use my $200 xreal airs. I do sometimes on holidays using Samsung DeX and a gamepad, and GeForce now. Works well, I played through half of Cyberpunk that way.
But, now you can play through the second half in VR https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXho2LdD1qo
A flood of VR mods for popular games have been coming out lately.
Man GeForce now is surprisingly stable/smooth. I barely use it now (built a PC) but I got the $5 founders rate and have no intention of getting rid of it
Except far less comfortable and motion sick inducing for a non-trivial portion of the population. No thanks.
HL Alyx was awesome though, nothing else on VR has been worth it for me.
> You can run some/many (depending on your library) of your regular Steam games on a 'flat screen' inside the VR environment
I can already run 100% of my Steam games on a flat screen in front of my real eyes
Not cinema size, and not with your poor eyes focused on "infinite". And not any of this on a plane, or a train, or a self driving car, or an RV.
Your eyes won't be focused on "infinite" in VR either. The focus distance is similar to the distance to the screen on your desk.
I can't believe you forgot the toilet.
I like that you specified that the car was self driving, but didn't specify the RV was.
In my head the RV was parked and the VR provides a virtual office in the small space :)
My eyes already show as much as I can see.
Not trying to proselytize an opinion here, but every time I think about VR Goggles + a virtual flat screen, I think about how entire industries exist to make us comfortable while we watch our real flat screens. A VR option would allow me to just lay comatose-like in my bed, goggles affixed to my face, as I watch whatever. It terrifies me, partly because of how good I bet it could feel.
Not bed, a stasis biochamber. Taking care of all your needs during a long fleet fight in EvE online.
Finally no need to let people leave for a 5 min bio every 1.5h.
Though with the current direction things are evolving towards, the biochamber might get replaced with the torment nexus.
I have an "image sorter" web application that works great on desktop, tablets, phones and... my meta quest 3. I can bum around the spare room on the couch and have three big windows hanging in the air. If your "click" targets conform with WCAG AAA standards such an app is easy to use with controllers.
It's particularly fun to watch 3d movies with the headset but with several decent TVs in the house I'd watch movies most of the time with one of them.
> with several decent TVs in the house I'd watch movies most of the time with one of them
Once these headsets have comparable image quality, I could see them being very engaging for TV series, sports, and movies. I often wear headphones at night when I'm watching content to avoid waking my family. Being able to do that in any room, with an even larger "screen" would be really useful in some cases.
I don’t know. I can’t even take a nap while having my glasses on, so the thought of lying down with a much weightier VR headset pressing down on my face doesn’t sound super comfortable.
I know lots … and lots … of people that sleep in VR. I don’t know how they do it either, but there we are!
This product doesn’t look half bad for sleeping in VR for people that are used to doing so with other headsets. Definitely easier than some offerings.
> I know lots … and lots … of people that sleep in VR.
Funny how demographics work. I don't know a lot of people who use VR. In fact I don't know a single person who is remotely interested in ehat looks to me and my friends like a very niche technology.
Honestly, with apps like Immersed, custom two-hand keyboards, and trackball mice, it is already feasible to lie comatose in bed with a VR headset strapped to your face and get through an entire day of software development.
Just like nature intended.
That sounds like a worse experience to me.
When sitting, the optimally comfortable angle to look, and the optimal place to hold a controller are very far from each other. The Deck is basically only fun for long sessions if you can play it laying down. VR is more flexible in this regard.
I have used my deck (multi hour sessions) for a long time from the couch, bed, and gaming chair and i found them all very comfortable. As long as your chair has arm rests then it shouldnt be too bad. The only place i havent used a deck much is at a table or from a bench with no arm rests,and i could see how either might be uncomfortable.
How long is that comfortable? For sure not couple of hours in 1 go
Valve thought of that. Its got a 1 hour battery life and you have to wait 3-5 hours for it to charge back up!
It is 21.6 Wh capacity and charges at up to 45W, so it should take less than half an hour to fully charge from zero. Not sure where you got the 3-5 hours from?
Valves own testing + reviewers. Nobody anywhere has got anything close to the speed you're suggesting.
Reviews say around 4 hours when streaming anything from a desktop PC (game or otherwise), 1 hour is if you're gaming directly on the device with the graphics turned all the way up.
> For sure not couple of hours in 1 go
Worry not! That's how long the battery lasts!
Just used my Vision Pro nonstop on a 9hr flight. It’s a game changer for travel; you disappear into a private movie theater and come out at your destination.
VR enthusiasts will be in VR 7+ hours on a weekend. I regularly clock 4+.
Without a tether to the PC (I have battery in my pocket) it’s pretty okay!
> How long is that comfortable?
It depends on the person. I can wear my Index on my head for like all day. I'm not sure what my longest Elite: Dangerous session was, but it was quite long. Other people find the same headset to be either too heavy or improperly balanced for wearing more than an hour or so at a time.
As far as motion sickness goes, it has been my experience that you can train yourself out of it. Recommendations:
1) If it doesn't do bad things to you, consume some Dramamine beforehand.
2) Don't play games that launch you through the air or otherwise induce a lot of mismatch between your virtual motion and your physical motion. Seated piloting (car or otherwise) games are one big exception to this recommendation, as most folks have a lot of brain training with "I'm sitting in a vehicle that's moving me around.", so one's brain doesn't freak out so much when presented with those visuals.
3) When you start getting nauseous, stop immediately. If you're still game, come back to play after the nausea is gone, but not before.
Newbies will attempt to power through the nausea, but it's not something you can power through... you'll just make it way worse, which sets back the whole "Convince your stupid brain that the minor mismatches between the visuals and the inner-ear sensations are not the result of poisoning, so it doesn't need to make you puke your toenails off" training that you're doing by easing into this and -if possible- using OTC anti-nausea drugs.
[0] For me, Dramamine is very helpful to prevent motion sickness.
That's already true for most PC VR headsets.
Edit: I missed the point here, see reply.
Standalone? No. Most PC VR headsets require a PC. The Steam Frame will let you play 2D games (and some VR games), with no phone or PC attached.
Thank you for the correction.
Also VR is just not somewhere you want to be.. Its worth it in short bursts for playing Alyx or golf with a friend, but it's not comfortable, you wanna get that thing off asap.. Playing a conventional 40+ hour game in it would be awful.
I even downloaded some 3d movies to try watching in VR, pacific rim and avatar movies (there's not that many 3d movies) but I didnt get far into them, the 3d was more of a distraction than anything. Flat screen is just superior imo.
Hopefully Valve make a sequel to Alyx to help sell the new headset.
I had the Quest 2 a while ago and did manage to play some games on it (PCVR through Virtual Desktop, cause they didn't have 1st party support for Intel Arc B580).
In regards to shooting games, while some of them were nice (especially modded H3VR, all of the guns you could build etc.), the shooting and movement always felt off - rounds not always going where you'd think they should regardless of the game, aiming being a bit clunky especially with scopes and so on, same with some RPG combat games. I also tried out Into the Radius VR, CONVRGENCE, SUPERHOT VR and Zero Caliber VR. There was something weird going on, like the world scale feeling off and even when adjusting through the SteamVR options, the experience still being odd, no matter what IPD or height offsets or other settings I'd try. Never really got used to it.
But let me tell you, vehicle games were on another level. It's perhaps the best way to fly in War Thunder because the proper depth perception completely changes the feel of it (if they'd fix the damn camera, I don't want to break my neck trying to look far back), same with VTOL VR and racing games like Dirt Rally and even Euro Truck Simulator 2. You'd think I'd get motion sickness or something but no, it just felt good and more proper than staring at a flat screen, despite the limited resolution and all else. Oh and oddly enough Derail Valley also felt nicer than the FPS games, despite you also moving around a bunch (though it's mostly a train game).
VR is definitely a cool novelty, if sadly underpopulated. There was also some cool productivity software like Immersed but they kinda ruined it by removing support for multiple physical monitors and also the Virtual Desktop program and SteamVR won't let you display like 4x1080p monitors all at the same time, what's even the point of being limited to just one or two in VR? You have 360 degrees around you (well, or however much your neck can comfortably do)!
1. Try Google Earth VR if you haven't. I've poured hours into it and it can be an almost emotional experience.
2. There have been some big advances in converting traditional flat games to VR, especially UEVR (for Unreal games) and various custom mods. It takes a bit more work, but the experience is worth it, even for games you've played 1000 times before.
I played a few hours of Alyx and, I'll be honest, it started to kinda freak me out. I noticed myself getting a bit of anxiety when putting the headset on to play, and a relief when I took it off to see the real world was still there! I've never experienced something so immersive, but I haven't picked it back up to finish it yet. Someday.
I also still mini golf regularly. It's such a fun, low effort way to hang out with friends and family that we wouldn't otherwise see all that often.
I know that feeling. I had it with Resident Evil 4 and other full games in VR. It's almost too immersive and I can't play more than an hour or so.
I remember playing this on my Oculus Rift 1 I think. It was such a better game than the other games I'd played in VR that had you put it on my head in a darkened room and told me it was the newest hardware tech I would have believed you.
Just the metaphors and "magnetics" for fiddling and dealing with your gun were so good. The conveyance system was also just so much more intuitive. I think they even seemed to have done something to deal with the very mild nausea I felt with some title.
Oh, and the game was fun.
You may not realise that we are currently in the midst of a VR Mod rennaisance:
Have you seen G-Rebels? Gunman-Contracts? NMS. Games such as Doom 2016, Assassin's Creed Odyssey, Half Life 2, many many more are being modded currently.
I'd also recommend games such as Pistol Whip and Synth Riders if you'd like to exercise at home.
There are now many good quality games, and I purchased a headset only a month ago.
That seems like a really good fit, since they might actually run onboard at a usable framerate?
You can even run Half-Life Alyx on Steam Frame itself (standalone mode), albeit at around 36FPS according to Tested https://youtu.be/C9JyWAVj94E?t=3330
36 FPS makes running it on the device a rather theoretical possibility for a VR game.
A great option if you're having trouble throwing up.
Tangentially related: If I wanted to play Half-Life: Alyx, and spend as little money as possible whilst still having a good experience, what do I need? (I already own a beefy desktop computer)
Probably Quest 3S, and unless things have improved with the native solution you'll want to pick up the "Virtual Desktop" app for better wireless streaming.
It's not very good resolution by today's standards but it's the cheap entry point. Quest 3 (non-S) has resolution comparable to the Steam Frame but costs $250 more.
If you only want to use it for streaming, you might look a used Quest 2, which has similar optics and screens as the 3S. I'm not sure the state of software support or whether its worse CPU/GPU matter for streaming performance. But I bet they're very cheap secondhand by now.
Of course, if you get a Quest you're also paying with the sheer amount of personal data shipped off to Meta the entire time you're using it.
Quest 1, the built in native streaming, with a wired connection from the beefy desktop to a WiFi 5 AP on 5 GHz in a low noise environment worked sufficiently. I'd get at least a Quest 2 if you're getting something new (not sure if the 3 is better than the 2).
I played it with a Quest 1 and VirtualDesktop to steam it from my PC. It worked well enough to blow my mind. Of course a Quest 3 would be much better than that nowadays. That's probably the cheapest good experience.
here's a great video about exactly this, might be outdated as it's 6 years old
The Arizona Sunshine series are also really great VR-native games. Not AAA but far closer to a complete game than most VR games.
Idk. After having THREE Quest 3s brick themselves within the extended warranty period, I really want an alternative. I can do normal cardio but rhythm games like Beat Saber and more are just such a better time of knocking out a decent hour of cardio several times a week for me. Beat Saber is more easily modded on PC and while the number of games I play is really low, this is worth it for me.
Gonna try it out on my m1 mbp because of this comment. Been waiting to play alyx forever but I didn't know a way to get mac to work - theres a solution now.
Also VR headset has limited re-playability ... table tennis was my VR golf.
What headsets work on M1? The hoops I tried to jump through for a Quest 2 made me give up about a year ago.
I got a Legion Go 3y ago for this reason. Alyx and SteamOS were both draws as a lifelong Mac/Nintendo kid.
I have a recommendation in a similar vein: Gran Turismo 7 in VR on PS5. I have a headseat graveyard and never really used my headsets except for that game. I've heard good things about Half-Life Alyx and now your comment has me absolutely intrigued.
Simulation games in general reached a whole other level with VR, just the added depth perception makes it impossible to go back to "flat" screens again. The degree of freedom to move your head to look around is underrated as well.
I dove into VR first with X-Plane 11 I think, which was janky at best, but nowadays Microsoft Flight Simulator has really good VR mode, and it's just such a great experience. Spaceflight simulators like Elite Dangerous are quite fun as well, but harder to relate to, so seems my brain doesn't get as fooled as more "real life sims".
I think having a horizon is very useful for the immersion.
If flight sims were less of a niche category, I think VR would be mainstream. VR just improves them that much. Sadly, the entire flight sim market is probably insufficient to sustain the VR market.
Interesting that Alyx is still listed as "Windows only" even though the reviews say it includes a native Linux port:
For good reason. Last time I checked (this year), Alyx crashes Mesa (i.e. your Vulkan layer) when the player enters an in-game load zone. This happens with native linux and the proton windows version.
Ah, definitely a subtle reference to Black Mesa. Bravo Valve.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesa_(computer_graphics)
Started by not-Valve in 1995
It's pretty good, but it would have been good enough as a non-VR title. The thought of digging out my VR headset to play it makes me shudder. I never even managed to finish it, played through most of it and then couldn't bring myself to get my VR headset out again.
HL:A is incredible, and I think it's still the best single-player VR game ever made, but it's almost seven years old now. It's pretty clear that this software ecosystem is dead.
The race/flight sim market is still going strong, but I guess it's the exception that proves the rule. It's extremely difficult to make a non-vehicle-based game that actually plays well in VR.
Incidentally I made a vehicle based game in VR (https://roguestargun.com), but currently I have no idea how to upload the APK to Steam to run on-device for the steam frame.
SteamOS doesn't use APK files afaik, it's just desktop linux. Probably an AppImage executable? Ought to be explained in Steamworks somewhere.
I suspect that the current design of VR/AR is not likely to get cheap enough and light/small enough to catch on in a big way. Kind of seems like diminishing returns on headset improvements at this point.
The first VR system that many of us used was the W Industries / Virtuality system in the early 1990's. Those were $60k in 1991 which is $140k today.
If the price of leading edge VR price drops two orders of magnitude every 35 years or so, it's probably only going to be another 10-15 years for $200 headsets.
So it's not here yet, but will be soon.
The computer powering the Virtuality was an Amiga, which I've always found mindblowing.
The Xreal augmented reality sunglasses type designs look a lot more interesting. I’m sure they sacrifice a lot of visual quality compared to a full gaming headset, but the general pitch makes more sense.
Those are the ones I am keeping an eye on most closely. In a few generations they might be where they need to be for a "floating monitors" experience in AR.
Until the hardware is ubiquitous it will remain so. But low profile AR/VR glasses that actually look exactly like normal glasses or goggles could bring it back from the dead
Rather bring back the glass hole creeps
I had the Oculus DK1, and now have a Meta Quest 2. I haven't had reason to boot it in the past... year?
I love the idea of the Apple Vision Pro 2, but its wildly expensive and it sounds too heavy to wear for very long throughout the day unless you're reclined. I'd just use it for virtual screens for development and in my workshop ideally - but that requires me moving around, and the weight makes that a no-go.
I'm into these things, but they still just aren't there yet- and the ecosystem is still lacking geniune investment beyond HL:A and some cool tech demos.
For what it's worth, I use the Apple Vision Pro as my primary display for an average of 8+ hours a day without any issues. I have years of experience with previous headsets, but my wife has no issues with the AVP's weight either, despite having no prior experience.
I'm looking forward to the modding community finally having full, unfettered access to a single hardware deploy target that will allow them to do a lot of interesting work that may be technically possible right now, but is very hard in a complicated and heterogeneous ecosystem, both because it is technically difficult to set up, and because the technical difficulty of doing the set up prevents any community from getting over the activation energy to grow and become self-sustaining.
In particular, I don't know if the Steam Frame will have the power for this, but something like a native ARM build of Dolphin (so no FEX) that exposes the 3D nature of polygonal games is very interesting to me. If you can cross your eyes to get stereo you can see what that would look like for something like Super Mario 3D Galaxy here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmgdqCL2toE (I find a conventional, unfolding phone to be a pretty good size for that. On a big monitor getting it small enough to cross eyes can be a challenge.) In general any emulation target that has 3D polygons is really interesting to me. I'm also pretty interested in what full 3D does to Skies of Arcadia (could be a complete disappointment, could be absolutely amazing) and Sin & Punishment: Star Successor, where I feel like the game that was a bit crowded and struggling with being 2D in SD might just come alive. (Assuming they didn't play too many games with the distance that doesn't work if we see it in true 3D.)
I gather the modding community is already gearing up for modding more games to be true 3D in the VR space. That is, not necessarily VR (though there's a mod community for that as well), but having a visible screen floating in 3D VR space where the screen itself is fully 3D. There is also a wide variety of games from the past couple of decades that I suspect might be very difficult to "convert to VR" but might be relatively easy to trick into rendering full 3D instead of down to 2D.
Nothing really stops any of this from happening now, but I've tried to set it up before and I was unsuccessful with my current stack. Being able to give out instructions that say "Install the Dolphin3D Build from the Flatpak Store and load up your ROMs" rather than the current set of ad hoc complex instructions that I couldn't even get through successfully could be a game changer.
I will giggle like a schoolgirl if the reason why Steam Frames sell like hot cakes in six to twelve months is that they become recognized as the premier way to emulate 3D systems from the Playstation forward. Overclocking, texture packs, modding, all that's great, but how about all those things and true 3D for a lot of games?
TBH in terms of intensity it maybe the best single-player game for me. The experience is so different from non-VR games that I struggle to even put it into the same category.
Yeah the games I most want to play on VR aren't only old... the servers have been shut down.
Plays really well but it is very yucky.
What do you mean?
All the fun of headcrab jump scares and skulking through the dark but now with complete immersion!
“Not a lot of games” will soon be a thing of the past once people find out they can just vibe code all kinds of VR games and experiences.
VR is a solution in search of a problem
GamersNexus released a video comparing the Frame VR vs Meta Quest 3 today, worth a watch for the Frame review alone:
I appreciate that the review goes into the privacy issues and legal disclaimers with each. I don't doubt that everyone expects the Meta product to be much worse there, but wow it's a stark contrast.
The comparison difference of terms and conditions was hilarious and spot on. Well done GN!
Would be great if the Meta Quest could be jailbroken to run SteamOS
Hacker News should be all over this device. They won't lock it down like the Meta stuff. Go ahead and install BeOS on it.
I think a hackable Linux PC in a VR headset is very exciting. But the major problem is the screen resolution is not good enough to make it a viable desktop replacement. It'll work great for gaming or media consumption, but reading smallish text will be difficult at best.
If they made a more expensive version with a better display it would potentially be interesting as a portable workstation/laptop alternative. But I don't think the SoC they're using supports displays much larger than this, so they'd have to upgrade that too. When you have such a wide FoV the number of pixels you need to cover it all at high resolution becomes very large.
I’m excited. In addition to VR games I’m pretty interested to see how viable it is to do things with the Frame that I’d usually do on a Linux laptop.
I hope the openness of the OS leads to lots of cool 3rd party options. I’d love to see a standalone headset the size of the Bigscreen Beyond 2, and I’d also be much more willing to pay $3000 for a premium VR/AR device that runs Linux than an Apple or Meta device.
It's still VR. It's still niche.
There are still many issues that VR hasn't solved (and may never solve).
- You still have to wear a device on your head
- You still (can) get motion sickness and/or headaches
- There is still not a lot of great content around VR
- Many people still prefer the flat screen medium and content
The openness/closeness is only one of the many issues this solves, and it doesn't matter when all of the other above issues exist.
The motion sickness in particular is something that's been mostly solved by using non-stick locomotion, like Gorilla Tag (https://store.steampowered.com/app/1533390/Gorilla_Tag/). Both the 'big name' developers and the various flat-to-VR mod makers still insist on stick locomotion, though, even though that actively makes the experience worse.
Funnily, I always found all the anti motion sickness "hacks" (especially teleporting for movement) to be the only things that actually caused motion sickness for me when I started out using VR. "Normal" controller movement was never a problem for me, so it was kind of unexpected that the safe mode was actually harder for me.
I often wonder how common this is. As in, how many people consider motion sickness in VR a problem specifically because they only ever experienced it with these workarounds applied, and then never even found out that actual normal movement (which their brains might be completely used to from years of video games) would have been completely problem free for them.
That's not a solution, that's a workaroud. Gorilla Tag is still a niche game where you're simulating gorillas.
Most games are human-centric, so until we're able to move around using our legs & feet, stick locomotion is still the preferred way to get around in a human-centric simulated environment.
Now the only problem is I'm not sure if I really have another $1059 worth of playing VR golf and rhythm games in me. Cool hardware though & even cooler software.
As a hive mind representative, I will be the first to say: I was already waitlisted before I saw it on HN.
Is that confirmed? Arm devices tend to be awkward to install your own OS on in general. E.g. look at Android phones.
I mean Valve definitely are very open-source friendly but I wouldn't just assume.
The Meta model (of cheaper hardware, highly subsidized) is probably not long for this world, with the recent increase in component costs.
Lower volume with consumers fully covering the device cost will probably become the norm, which doesn't bode particularly well for this industry (at least in the short term)
I've never been interested in VR headsets and am not very educated about it.
Can someone explain why you'd want to actually run things on it instead of having a much lighter screens-and-headphones-only unit that plugs it into a more powerful machine that renders things for it? What's the benefit of having to strap all this extra hot hardware and batteries to your face.
Is it just about it being wireless? Surely there are wireless protocols that can stream high-bandwidth videostreams from your PC to VR goggles.
Not trying to be snarky or facetious, but genuinely curious.
To be clear, you don't have to run things on it, you can stream wirelessly from your PC.
An advantage of a standalone unit is you can take it with you, or for people who don't already have a gaming computer.
You're also asking why not have it plug to a more powerful machine. The answer for that is simple: wires get snagged and pulled on, in practice it's a poor experience (remember, you cannot see the wires when you are wearing the headset).
I like wired for the better graphics and unlimited playtime. In practice even a single cable gets wound up, stuck on things, and generally feels in the way. It's a difficult trade off to accept, even with a long and light weight cable.
Being able to play without a bunch of setup in your room and without worrying about getting tangled in cables seems great. I have a Valve Index—which is a pretty remarkable device, that I definitely enjoyed—but the hassle of cable management/etc adds some real hassle. And I say this as somebody who actually set up a pulley system to make it work better in my home office :P
The real question is why did they release this as a standalone unit for $1049 and then claim they couldn't sell it for less due to the RAM shortage - when that implies they could have released a dumb unit that depends on the Steam Deck or Steam Machine for far less?
They've doing inside-out SLAM to map the environment and tracking your eyes for foveated rendering at the same time. That's fairly heavy - I think the compute required would necessitate a much higher speed connection with a desktop and a fair bit of CPU time, so it's probably cheaper and easier to put the compute right in the headset instead of scaling up the connection.
Also, they probably landed on this rough design a few years ago - before the AI hyperscalers bought up all the RAM - so the economics changed a lot under their feet.
You're asking why they couldn't completely change the product from a full-fledged VR machine into a headset in roughly a year, especially when they already sell a regular VR headset for $1,000?
If it can do innside out tracking its way more data efficent to have compute onboard. And if you already have a decent amount of compute you can scale it up just a little more to have. a fully standalone unit.
I'm not sure going from less than $50 of RAM and a $50 processor for foveated eye tracking to 16 GiB of RAM ($300) and a Snapdragon 8 ($200) is a "slight bump".
Wait I don't realise ram prices where this bad. Bought my kit for about a tenth of that a while ago. Ouch.
There are two use-cases. Already sitting at a PC and you just pop your headset on - your idea makes sense. But traditional VR means standing up in a dedicated space (2m x 2m) and demands uninterrupted time. That's a high friction activity, and adding setting up a PC and Oculus Link and Steam VR before you start playing makes that friction even higher to the point where it's a niche hobby. Most casual players are doing stuff like VRChat and Beat Saber which can run on low powered hardware, so having a basic game-playing ability is a good idea.
It's a lot easier for developers to target a known platform.
It is designed to stream wirelessly from a powerful computer too
I’m shocked that this is performant enough to work in practice. Isn’t the timing window for VR responsiveness extremely tight?
It works, but there is usually a noticeable difference (at least with Quest).
When you’re in VRChat you can be your fursona
I suspect the answer is actually very simple, when you compare this device to one that is made deliberately dumber there are far too few actual differences to make it make sense.
If use for solely VR Gaming, and you don't care a ton about the privacy aspect, it is a hard sell against a new or used Q3. However, for myself personally I love the idea of it as a device I can tinker with and have full control over. I would love to also replace my laptop with it while traveling. Especially with a small wireless keyboard it has a good chance to replace my laptop for tinkering/gaming on the go.
With the price increases it is likely not a good value for an average person, but for myself and some other tinkerers I think it is very acceptable.
> hard sell against a new or used Q3
That depends. Having had a Quest 2 and dealt...nay, put up with with Meta and their god awful ecosystem you couldn't pay me to touch another one of their headsets. I'll take an open linux based one over a Q3 any day. That alone makes the price difference worth it to me. Throw in the foveated streaming and the vastly superior quality and latency of streaming and it makes for a fairly decent offering.
Doesn't wearing a headset in public have antisocial "Glasshole" vibes?
Honestly, people who cowork in public already give me the ick. Maybe immersing yourself in a headset is just a physical manifestation of the digital immersion that is already plaguing public spaces.
The “glasshole” vibe wasn’t antisocial; it was an understandably human reaction to the fact that you couldn’t tell whether the wearer (and/or google) was surveilling or recording you any time they so much as glanced in your direction in public.
Im not too familiar with the term Glasshole, but on long dark plane rides, if I want to use my laptop I feel like a lighthouse, even with lowest screen brightness. If I look like a dork with it on while doing some light gaming or movie watching, that is an OK price to pay to not disturb others around me. But if you are talking about just general out in public, then it absolutely gives dorky vibes. On the train, or in a coffee shop or something, a laptop just looks much less conspicuous.
Is the Glasshole thing more geared towards recording people in public? This headset has 1. bad cameras but 2. a much better privacy posture than meta.
The Glasshole thing comes from when Google Glasses were new (sort of the ancestor to the modern Meta pervert glasses). When you saw someone wearing Google Glasses, you could see the camera pointed at you and that the screen was on and doing stuff. It made a lot of people uncomfortable.
I don't really get the ick about wearing these kinds of things in public, but, having tried to wear XR glasses in public has shown me that the bigger issue is that these things are at a whole other level of distracting compared even to phones. It'd probably be worse with a full face headset, since at least with glasses you have your full field of view.
Even despite pinning the display in a corner, I noticed I was very distracted when crossing streets. Made me stop wearing them like that, instead prefering to carry them in my backpack and use them on train rides or flights.
At least with my phone I can just slip it back in my pocket when I need to pay attention to my surroundings.
I don't think that's what GP means. They are likely using it in private settings.
To be clear, wearing a full VR headset has an "I am an idiot" vibe.
Never see these kinds of complaints when people do with the Apple Vision Pro.
What's icky about taking a laptop down to the park and getting some work done while surrounded by nature?
Although, I do agree, I would find it odd to go down to the park and see someone wandering around with a VR headset tuning out the world and waving controllers around. I'm more addressing the "cowork in public spaces" part of that. I think their statement about "while traveling" is more like while seated on a several hour plane trip or relaxing at a hotel or things along those lines. Not like wearing the device while ordering a latte or something along those lines.
I do hope Valve's work on ARM64 for this, alongside improvements to performance in Honeykrisp, make for a dramatically better experience with Linux on Apple Silicon Macs.
They're very lovely devices with big GPUs, and I would love to (one day when ram prices go back to normal!) repurpose my M3 Max as a under TV Steam Machine when I upgrade.
fwiw, I’m already playing windows games on my Retroid (Android ARM Snapdragon) console and it’s already really good at least compatibility wise.
I mean, you can comfortably play GTAV on this thing and it’s powered by a smartphone processor.
Your dreams are going to become true.
I use my RP6 (and RP5 previously) quite a bit. Its amazing what those devices can do nowadays.
Kind of bizarre tbh, given the software market for VR seems absolutely dead. Announcing it with a 7 year old game is like, what? What's Valve's plan here?
For these devices, I always enjoy Adam Savage's Tested videos. Here's the one they posted today for the Steam frame: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9JyWAVj94E
It's full of technical details and down-to-earth analysis, and includes interviews with the Valve engineers.
Actually more reasonable prices than I assumed. I know it’s a position of privilege, but just pre ordered the 1TB.
I'm thinking of selling my Index and my Vision Pro for one. The screens/tech in the Vision Pro is remarkable, but sadly the iron grip of the App Store Guidelines means none of it is really accessible for any interesting applications. The AVP App Store is a pathetic ghost town. I'd much rather have a less technically capable headset but have it be completely open.
At basically quest 3 levels of on device performance, this thing better have amazing software. This price is way too high.
Our expectations have been warped by Meta's decade long subsidization of VR hardware
For me a lot of the value comes from the freedom you get with frame. Valve says “it’s your PC, install what you want” and it runs an open source OS. It’s the first truly Linux friendly headset (it runs arch btw) and I don’t have to send my data to Meta. Also foveated streaming means, according to reviewers, a pretty decent wireless PCVR experience. I can’t wait to play half life Alyx without a tether. Valve is just doing something very different from meta.
It's a compelling product niche, for sure - but still, awfully niche. I'm sure there's folks out there who will bite on the chance to have a top-line VR headset with Linux, but at the price point... gotta be a fairly small market segment.
Still, I'm happy they're doing this, it seems like a cool product and I bet it would be almost as much fun as a platform to hack around on as it will be for gaming.
I was careful in my wording - the benefit is the freedom. Many people will appreciate that, simply by being able to install what you want. That goes well beyond the benefits to Linux users, but as a Linux user I really appreciate it.
VR Chat often has 70k+ concurrent players across the world.
It is a niche, definitely, but one that spends a lot of money and time on their virtual third space.
Yeah, I've been Linux-only on the desktop since the early aughts and trying to get the Valve Index working was so frustrating and inconsistent I eventually gave up. It sits collecting dust and I've still never played more than the first fifteen minutes of HL: Alyx (because no game is worth installing Windows for).
Very much looking forward to maybe actually being able to use VR on my gaming computer.
Just echo'ing the other comment.
I'm on arch, and with nearly no tinkering my index just works.
Only low level knowledge I think would be useful is the different VR runtimes. SteamVR vs Monado
I love the Steam Deck because it is almost entirely a consumer electronics experience. I mean, maybe for 10% of the games I have to edit an .INI file to have a perfect experience, but for the most part I can pick it up and play and not fight with configuration files and shell scripts the way I do at work and with my hobbies. I've seen Windows-based devices that compete with it at Best Buy and I'm kinda shocked that, for a demo, they drop you on an ordinary Windows desktop with visual scaling appropriate for a 20x bigger screen and it is not obvious how to play a game -- such a fail!
Overall I like the experience of installing and running games on the MQ3, I can very much see a Steam-based device that is just as nice or nicer.
VR on linux has really turned a corner in the past 3 years. Last I played in vr with linux it was perfectly acceptable.
Yeah, I used my Index on my Gentoo Linux machine like six months ago and it worked fine. FWIW, I'm using an AMD video card. Perhaps it doesn't work at all on Nvidia hardware, but -absent sabotage from Nvidia- there's no reason why the type of video card should matter at all... the thing's a wide-ass screen with some sensors attached that the graphics card has absolutely nothing to do with.
The price is basically the same as the Index was at launch 7 years ago. With the devaluing of the currency, the increase in specs and capabilities, and the current component suppy crisis, it is a deal. Adjusted for inflation the Index would cost $1300 today, which now gets you a Frame with 1TB of internal storage.
I'm ready to pay it to not be forced into using Facebook's terrible desktop software that they frequently break the PC Link functionality of. The way it's Windows-only also sucks; it's one of the few things that's prevented me from switching my gaming PC to Linux.
And yes, I've tried third-party solutions like Virtual Desktop under Windows and ALVR under Linux. Even with some of the best WiFi 6E hardware available standing within 10ft of the router with the PC being wired into the network with ethernet, nothing has beat a tethered USB connection using the native Link functionality on my Quest 2.
Any SteamVR based solution fixes most of these issues and the Frame sounds like it might make wireless actually viable. Even if it doesn't, tethered with Valve software instead of with Facebook software is still a meaningful improvement.
Same here. I would gladly pay extra just to not be tied to Facebook.
2x GPU performance[1] and RAM, along with it being your machine instead of a locked down Meta android device is worth 2x the price for many. Eye tracking is also huge, both as an additional input device, and lifting GPU performance even more with foveated rendering.
Is there an example of foveated rendering implementation?
No Man's Sky is doing it now. It's also useful for foveated streaming which works for all games.
https://www.nomanssky.com/cosmos-update/#:~:text=Added%20sup...
Quest Pro has eye tracking, and Red Matter 2 used it.
Not having to faff about with Meta's developer program or whatever to side load my own homebrew stuff, and then get locked out, then have to do whatever hoop jumping six months later, is a huge bonus. I have an OG Quest 1 and the damn thing needs a new copy of meta quest ...whatever, installed every 2 weeks if I want to use it. It's exhausting.
Everything from meta is a spyware and should be only touched inside a VM like with any other malware vendors.
Money is just a number and far less precious than personal dignity and privacy. I don't even get the idea why people really would compare something around 1k usd range in developed countries, it's a no brainer.
> Everything from meta is a spyware and should be only touched inside a VM like with any other malware vendors.
I'm on your side, but this kind of hyperbole weakens your argument. Tell me about the spyware in pytorch, react, zstd, or llama3.2:1b and how you shouldn't touch this except within a VM.
Took me a very small amount of time to figure out pytorch was a one man effort that actually was discouraged by Facebook initially, and the dev no longer works there
Quest 3 is cheap for the same reason that 80 inch TVs are sold at or below cost. If you value your privacy at zero and want to strap a surveilling, billboard on your face for pennies on the dollar be my guest.
This is for people who want control over their devices. Despite the poor timing and somewhat high price tag I am glad there's competition in this space. Meta's stance on software and hardware openness is not great & it's suffocating the whole space.
There's an incredibly simple product case I think HN is missing: I bought a Vive and then an Index. This has higher resolution than the Index, lower mass (even with a battery!), and easier setup that can enable more spontaneous use. In addition, I now get the benefits of "standalone" headsets that I previously did not think were worth hundreds of dollars on their own.
Am I paying $1000 for a minor improvement? Yes. It's a hobby. It costs money sometimes. I don't do this for nearly anything else, like phones that other people seem fine for paying $1000 every other year. I expect this device to last until another 6 years when I can justify spending another $1000 on another iterative improvement. Similarly, I may spend $1000 on a new setup for simracing soon.
Spending $6k on a gaming PC, a VR headset, and wheels and pedals is an experience you otherwise cannot get. I would spend money on VR even if it only worked with one or two driving games and nothing else. For those of us in that niche, VR has been anything but a "Failure", that business people seem convinced it is because it couldn't be the next "Platform" to put an app store on.
But, that's the market for VR. It's a niche toy for people with expendable income. It's not a mass market to rival the smartphone.
I feel much the same. I don't think I'll be moving on from my Quest 3 until the hardware kicks the bucket.
Its a steep premium to not have zucc peering through your headset cameras.
Quest 3 is a mindblowing piece of hardware completely ruined by the runtime and vendor. This is basically it as a Linux machine you actually own. That being said, my Quest has sat on the shelf for years now since purchasing. I just don't really see a market for these things outside of driving/flight simulation enthusiasts. The whole "smartphone strapped to your face" paradigm is a dead end for actual VR.
lmao. n o. thats meta and this steam. iykyk
lol.. offended some zuckers
Wish Valve would make enough of something so that everyone that wanted one could get one. I wanted to get an Index headset when they launched that. I would check the Steam store page every few months, for 5 years. Every time it said "Out of Stock". It's still out of stock in France today. They design great products, but are useless at getting them produced in quantity.
Given the entire hardware world is experiencing multiple important shortages that are unlikely to improve before a while, I wouldn’t bet on it
The scalpers will probably be all over this too.
Thats a lot harder to do now they use a lottery system which if I'm not mistaken also takes account history into account along with physical address.
True but it still happened with the controller at least. But it also backfired. I would have impulse bought day one but they only just in the last week offered me the opportunity to purchase and I passed on it.
Yeah the controller didnt have the lottery system, thats why they implemented it for the steam machine and frame having learnt their lesson.
> It's still out of stock in France today.
You might look at why it's out of stock. Here in the US, it looks like they're out of stock of the base stations, the right controller (but not the left!) and replacement face gaskets. [0]
> They design great products, but are useless at getting them produced in quantity.
shrug I've little doubt that there were a great many periods between the Index release and now that you could have gotten a full set of equipment. I'm very suspicious of the claim that you never found a time when you could purchase one from the Steam Store.
The Index had the misfortune of being released during the start of The Global Plague when everyone with a sizable chunk of disposable cash found themselves with a great need for new toys to play while stuck at home... and global manufacturing got turbofucked by said plague, which didn't make it especially easy to ramp up production.
The Steam Frame has the misfortune of being released in the beginning of The Great Abandonment of The Consumer PC Market, which has just screwed the availability of parts and their price.
I'd say that neither of those things are Valve's fault, but what can I really know? They're a secretive private company, so maybe they engineered both catastrophes. ;)
[0] <https://store.steampowered.com/app/1059530/Valve_Index_Heads...>
> 2160 x 2160 LCD (per eye)
The 4K we've all been waiting for - the (2x2)K.
> Reservations are currently not available for customers who have not made a purchase on Steam before Mon, April 27, 2026.
As someone who made a purchase on steam (that I can't even play) after the release of the Steam Machine, but before the release of the Steam Frame, in the hopes that the date would be later, I am disappointed that they used the same date, such that that purchase still does not unlock the ability to order.
Just ask someone you trust to make the reservation from their account.
Unfortunately, your behavior is identical to what a reseller would do.
At current hardware prices, this is worth buying to use as a server!
This does make me excited for the possibility, several years down the line of a Valve ARM Linux laptop with decent battery life. I wonder if anyone will rip out the compute unit out of the headset and try to use it as mini PC, just because you can, it seems like fun.
Heh, I use one of my Steam Decks as a small home server.
Foveated Streaming seems to be buried on the page, this feels like a true game changer, especially for PCVR. Coupled with eye tracking it unlocks about 2-3x more compute for rendering. Now sparkle DLSS-like upscaling and you can render 144hz native resolution PCVR games without buying a 5090. Truly exciting stuff.
I still remember Michael Abrash's talk from 2016 where he talks about Foveated Rendering + Eye tracking as one of the key pillars of next-gen headsets https://youtu.be/o7OpS7pZ5ok?t=5438. Interestingly, his prediction was that it would be widespread as of about 5 years ago. Is next-gen finally here after 10 years?
I do wonder if they use local upscaling after foveated rendering/streaming. The screenshot I've seen look a bit aliased in the periphery, which I hope isn't too distracting.
Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 does have a dedicated Hexagon NPU, so supposedly it can be done, but quality might not be great
Not quite: foveated streaming only affects the bitrate of the stream. For improving rendering performance, there is a similar technique called foveated rendering. It's still somewhat unclear how well that works while streaming, though. In theory, it should work, but no reviewers seem to have covered it for some reason.
you would probably need special engine optimizations to really make use of it, and VR hasn't been exactly an attractive option for AAA games.
DLSS adds lag, as does wireless, that 144hz may not help as much in those cases. For me it's the lag that gives me headaches.
Doesn't it render at half or even quarter resolution before upscaling, so wouldn't it be less e2e latency overall?
I don't game much nowadays; can I just use this to replace my monitor, and work within high fidelity VR?
You could do it, but the resolution isn't high enough for it to be a good experience. (2160x2160 per eye sounds like a lot, but with a 110 degree fov it's only ~19 pixels per degree. Which is like sitting very close to a 27" 720p monitor.)
Usually the pixel density is higher in the center of the FOV though (more distortion due to the lenses on the sides). It's what set the original Oculus apart from existing headsets at the time: cheap lenses and correct the distorsiin in software. It's also a feature, as the actual density is better in the center :)
I do wish they used micro-LEDs for that kind of display though. I guess that they could be manufactured at the same time as a metamaterial acting as a lens sitting on top.
For comparison, Apple’s Vision Pro has 3660x3200 pixels per eye.
Yep, across a smaller fov too (100 degree horizontal).
Seems like we need one more decade of oled panel and gpu improvements before we can have good enough density with a reasonable size and power consumption.
you can even replace the whole computer if you tinker enough, since it runs Linux. whether or not that is a good idea in principle with _any_ vr headset is debatable.
AR glasses are much more suited towards that vertical at a lower cost, yet imo still struggle to be compelling in productivity.
I want this for one reason and one reason only: DCS.
Anyone know how well it works/doesn't work yet?
I've waited for years to get a VR heads for DCS (its a flight simulator folks) .. and now, maybe, this is it.
Something to keep in mind that a lot of simmers (DCS specifically) don't get when they want to jump into VR:
Once you hit the advanced 3rd Gen or any 4th Gen fighter or attack aircraft (essentially anything where you go "heads down" for any significant portion of the aircrafts mission profile) VR becomes more of a liability than an asset.
For those aircraft being a pilot is secondary to being a systems operator.
Think of an F-14; you have the front seat who would want to be in VR because they fly the aircraft, but the RIO would NOT want to be because they have very little need to be, especially since it makes interfacing with their mission systems so much harder. AH-64's are the same split.
Now if you are the sole person in the aircraft and need to do both missions being able to operate the systems fluently and smoothly via dedicated interfaces FAR exceeds any benefit from being in VR.
I've done it all, and I far prefer flying in VR. But for accomplishing complex mission profiles multiscreen with each being an MFD and a rich control set far beat that immersion.
Perhaps the best mix is using a curved UW and trackir plus dedicated MFD screens. Once you get that setup its amazing for that advanced capability set.
All of this assumes you want to use the full capability set of an airframe, or use an attack profile at all. If all you want is to use them for A2A, then VR is wonderful as long as you have a full HOTAS set, understand the preset modes on everything, and memorize the controls and alternate control schemes properly for BVR to close in conversion, countermeasures, etc.
Personally I use physical MFDs in my simulator together with a VR headset, it works out great. Initially I thought I would need to get some kind of hand tracking cameras or passthrough in order to see what buttons I was pressing, but I found that you develop muscle memory super quickly, and seeing the buttons move in VR when you press them physically is good enough.
I had wondered how well that would work; thanks for that input!
I wanna do all of the above, to the extent that a few sessions a week can be had, and yeah, my existing multi-monitor rig allows for a degree of MFD integration, with lots of controls (faderfoxes repurposed for it) alongside an admittedly kind of basic warthog HOTAS .. its more for the fun than anything else. No chance, ever, to fly some of these machines any other way, so its gonna be great ..
If you enjoy DCS give VTOLVR a shot as well. Fantastic fun.
IMO VTOL VR is better than DCS in VR (albeit unavoidably more arcade-y) because it's designed for VR first, while DCS's screens and labels are much more difficult to read given the limited resoultion
I just want to clarify for others reading that the resolution is really mainly limited by your PC hardware, NOT VR headsets.
As in, it's totally possible to have completely clear text on DCS screens and labels even with an older lower res headset like the Valve Index, as long as you render the game at a sufficiently high resolution (via SteamVR settings or similar).
Just wanted to point this out, since a lot of folks aren't aware how drastically increasing the render resolution (even far past the native HMD panel resolution) affects image clarity.
For DCS only, I wonder how this slots between a Q3 and a bigscreen beyond. The beyond with no controllers is probably about the same price all in as the 1TB, but would be better screens and lighter. If you dont care about the standalone stuff it might be another good option. The frame does bring more versatility, but at the cost of battery/weight. Wireless VR in sims is unbeatable in terms of immersion though.
I bought an HP Reverb G2 for DCS about 5 years ago and it worked great. When Windows started deprecating the Mixed Reality services random things started breaking, though.
I used a Rift for DCS and it was amazing graphically. Hard to go back to playing on a screen and using a HOTAS hat to capture your view (or head tracker).
But you better have your HOTAS controls memorized because it's a pain not having visibility of them.
Yes, I would probably try to do some kind of "point webcam at HOTAS" hack to try to obviate this hassle, at least until I get the muscle memory really nailed.
Hopefully it's possible to use eye tracking as a pointer in desktop mode. I'd like to connect only a keyboard and use binds to emulate clicks.
The Steam Frame looks like a heck of a device. At the cost, though, I question why they didn't include a better pass-through camera. A device with onboard processing and a good pass-through camera would be very neat. If they were trying to make this an affordable device I'd understand, but it's over a thousand dollars.
There's an accessory that adds high-res color passthrough: https://arcturus.vision/
> If they were trying to make this an affordable device I'd understand, but it's over a thousand dollars.
It costs less than a third of the Vision Pro, and less than the Meta Quest Pro. It's relatively affordable, for a RAM crisis.
They use a generic phone chip so have to do camera processing using CPU and not dedicated accelerators.
With the software being open source I wonder if the quest 3 will get owned so that eventually we can run steam frame sw on it
It's absolutely wild to me that they didn't include, and have devs ship profiles for some of their games, SuperDepth3D or some other depth map shader officially in some form in the Steam UI for this. If a big focus is playing your pancake library on a huge screen (due to there not being not many native VR games), having that huge screen be 3D would be a huge value add. And they're big enough to get some developers to ship profiles for their games officially guaranteeing some form of workingness(?).
This. This is what I am looking for. I remember using iz3d years ago, with their anaglyph renderer. Playing Half Life 2, Halo and others in stereoscopic 3D was a great experience. Dead Space was particularly nice, as the game uses no HUD.
I guess most of it could run as a Vulkan layer?
That’s a better price than I thought it would be, but still quite high. I will consider buying it someday, but today it’s a luxury I can’t afford…
I think this is a good chance to try and port Alyx (ARM64 build) to visionOS and run it on my Vision Pro headset which has been running around unused for the last two years xD
Aussies are getting it at a premium, too.
USD$1059 (256GB) should be AUD$1483, retailing for AUD$1609 - a AUD$126 premium.
USD$1299 (1TB) should be AUD$1819, retailing for AUD$1969 - a AUD$150 premium!
That is nothing, less than 10%.
Ther are countries that get it at 100% or even 200% more.
It’s hard to meaningfully compare prices across countries due to differences in tax regimes.
Isn't it bit odd that there is no basic wired connectivity option? Or am I just old-fashioned? As far as I can tell you only options are 6GHz streaming or stand-alone mode
You can pick up a Valve Index if you want to do this, which is a fantastic device, but I think the reality is that the market for the wired to a desktop head set just isn't there to support the product.
Apparently the beta just added support for this.
The streaming is good enough now, especially with foveated rendering, that there's no reason for them to eat the extra support cost and user experience drag of focusing on a tether.
Great news: SteamOS running on a Snapdragon 8 Gen 3, ARM64
Bad news: I'm poor. Just wish I had pocket money for niche products like this.
> Great news: SteamOS running on a Snapdragon 8 Gen 3, ARM64
Bad news: It's trapped in a VR headset and not a pocket-size steam deck
Anyone knows how the passthrough compares to visionpro with the add-on?
Also exciting, Valve has finally started shipping native ARM/FEX builds of Proton 11: https://www.pcgamer.com/games/vr/valves-latest-proton-11-bet...
Will be super interesting to benchmark various ARM chips and see where they land performance-wise!
AFAIK they still aren't shipping an actual ARM64 version of Steam, making it difficult to actually use those (unsupported) ARM builds of Proton. That article is 5 months old.
Not officially, but it's publicly available for download.
https://interfacinglinux.com/community/sbcsoftware/native-st...
You can use it really easily on Android devices through apps like Game Native and some of the more powerful Android gaming handhelds have support for Steam through Linux distros like Rocknix and Armada OS.
Yeah this could open up a whole new category of lightweight gaming PCs.
I'm so happy that they DONT SELL TO 75% OF THE WORLD(No options in Asia, Latin America or Africa. 3 ENTIRE CONTINENTS)
Underpowered where it really counts. The GPU is barely better than that in a Quest 3 (Adreno 750 in Steam Frame vs Adreno 740 in Quest 3,) and while the CPU is almost 250% better overall than what is in the Quest 3, CPU power hasn't really been the limiting factor in most VR games I've played, it has been the GPU, both in PCVR and in standalone devices.
I imagine thats why they've gone so far with the dual stream setup that can use the 6ghz dongle + your wifi for ultra low latency to a dedicated machine.
Not being very savvy about VR glasses, am I assuming correctly that this device can't do AR, as the cameras are only used for tracking?
I think technically it can, but the cameras are black and white, so it would be very subpar for AR out of the box.
There is some chatter about using the expansion port to add a 3rd party colour camera to get over this, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
Edit: I stand corrected, there is such a 3rd party camera linked on the page!
> There is some chatter about using the expansion port to add a 3rd party colour camera to get over this, but I wouldn't hold my breath for it.
The official product page above has a link to one you can already preorder: https://arcturus.vision/
Now I see that the page reveals this:
> Four high-resolution, monochrome cameras provide controller and headset tracking
(Emphasis mine)
So it's not really suitable for real AR out of the box. Thanks for the heads up!
I use VR a lot and have not needed AR except for getting a drink from the fridge. What am I missing?
At this price I don't think you can expect the high quality cameras and processing power needed to do AR.
It can do AR, especially with this addon arcturusvision.myshopify.com
Who are they targeting with this product?
What’s the appeal? Can someone enlighten me? :)
You can get a used or cheap headset for a similar experience. VR has a couple of games you get bored of pretty quickly :0
been there
Does anyone make VR games anymore?
I think the only way this is really compelling is if it's able to effectively function as a virtual Linux desktop with a reasonably clear floating monitor in front of you.
I'm not sure that's appealing to me for a couple reasons that mostly boil down to "I don't really want a computer strapped to my face for hours at a time", but I'm the right kind of weirdo who sees the appeal in being able to eliminate the 32 inch monitor from my desk. I'd love to have all this desk space back to put "not computers" in. Or even just leave it empty.
Outside that, so much of this feels very ... I dunno. Answer in pursuit of question. Sure, I can play my Steam library "anywhere" (* caveats apply), but how often do I really want to do that, and especially how often do I want to take the very expensive gadget around to do that?
I've got a Lenovo x86 handheld purchased for around $500, which I'd already be a bit reluctant to drag out on the train or wherever public. For an even more expensive headset with optics and other difficult-to-clean parts, much more so.
VR games themselves are very "meh" to me. Some are insanely cool, but they just aren't enough to rationalize buying a headset. I've got a CV1 that's collected dust for years because it's just not worth it.
It looks like this does support a pretty robust sort of virtual desktop environment, though. That could make this almost compelling, I think. But that's a steep price for "it's almost interesting"...
> I'm the right kind of weirdo who sees the appeal in being able to eliminate the 32 inch monitor from my desk. I'd love to have all this desk space back to put "not computers" in. Or even just leave it empty.
Unfortunately none of the current generation VR/AR/XR glasses come close to replacing a monitor full-time. They may be okay for using in a pinch (like if you're travelling and need a bigger/secondary/private display), but they suck for long term use.
Biggest issues:
- Screen resolution is still pretty low. At 2160x2160, it feels like you're just sitting really close to a 27" 720p monitor. You will see the pixels. It may not matter much for movies and some games, but you will notice it for productivity. If you have a decent monitor already, it's a very noticeable downgrade, even when compared to using any modern laptop display.
- They're just not comfortable for long term wear. I can work 8+ hours in front of a regular screen with almost no issues, but that's just impossible with current generation VR/AR/XR glasses.
- The big screen promise is a lie for productivity. You'd need to constantly move your head around to be able to see the whole screen; you can't see it all in one go, without dealing with blurry/distorted edges. If you do want to see the entire screen in one go then not only does the image become smaller (breaking the big screen promise), the clarity of text drops sharply.
So if you're considering getting any of the current generation glasses for long-term productivity: just don't.
I’m somewhat surprised nobody has pointed one of those hacking models at a Rift CV1 and said “make it work without all the Facebook junk, preferably in Linux.”
... You know, now there's an idea ...
But in seriousness, I've gone down this rabbithole ever year or two for about as long as I've had the darn thing (including one especially masochistic attempt at making it work on ppc64le), and any time I have gotten an open stack to drive it, the result has always been unusable with regard to input jitter and "general feel". Which is to say, yes, people have already figured out how to drive it on Linux.
It's just that the experience sucks.
Very impressive work by all the folks who hacked on it. But it seems like actually getting all the smoothing/filtering and interpolating sensor data is, for whatever reason, an unreasonably hard problem. Dunno if the LLMs could help at all, short of ... stealing the secret sauce from the proprietary runtime??
Well it’s news to me that things are already at the state of just needing better filtering. Maybe it is time to dust mine off…
I'm wondering how long the battery is in one charge.
Ars Technica's article put it at 1.5hrs in performance mode and over 2 in a power saving mode, but noted that the lower saving mode wasn't enjoyable. Of course it's I am sure that is going to be highly subjective to what you are doing.
https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2026/09/steam-frame-the-ars-t...
Valve confirmed a separate strap with hot-swappable batteries 'coming soon'
Maybe Im just poor
Same
If only it were OLED
10 years later and VR headsets are still too heavy, hot and sweaty. Short of having brain implants or magical contact lenses, nothing will ever change that.
Can't be used more than 30min without major discomfort for most people. Any talks about it replacing monitors are lies.
Headsets like the Bigscreen Beyond 2 are basically the weight and size of goggles. Wearing headphones isn't actively comfortable either but very few people would say that that is prohibitively uncomfortable relative to their desire to listen to music. It's not unreasonable to think that the privacy and convenience of a VR workspace could eventually reach that level of convenience for a significant number of people.
The real issue for replacing monitors seems to be screen fidelity.
in my experience this is only an issue when headsets are unbalanced between the front and back, since this results in the weight going on your nose/face rather than straight through your head to your neck. the frame's battery is on the back specifically for this reason in addition to the whole thing being relatively light anyway
Fuckfuckfuck. Not now, I will need to now offset this with a present for wife. Not to mention, it will mess with how fast other projects move. Fuck.
I think the price is very reasonable for what’s on offer (especially given the current memory crisis), and given that Valve doesn’t subsidize the cost of anything, it really shows how much Meta values your privacy and biometric data for advertising purposes (~$600 in subsidies).
One thing I keep seeing reviewers skip over is VR Chat, which is weird since it’s a core VR experience that continues seeing average player count increases YoY compared to the boom-bust cycle of most VR games/experiences. It’s also an experience the headset seems uniquely targeted for - wandering the home or apartment streaming over 6GHz Wi-Fi, hanging out with friends or going to raves, no umbilical needed or dodgy Quest support limiting the experience.
For VRC alone, $1300 is a very respectable price for the experience on offer, especially compared to the $1k “entry point” of the Index. Common man VR this ain’t, this is targeting the VR serious as well as those who value privacy higher than what Meta offers in subsidies. The 2D support is a clever way of justifying the higher price though, and giving folks a more private way of enjoying their libraries in non-gaming spaces.
You're fooling yourself if the quest provides any advertising data value, let alone 600$ The device is simply just being sold for as a loss and is not a data harvesting operation.
Some quick googling shows the ARPU of a meta user is approx 57$ a year, and ~65$ in NA. Even if the quest provided useful advertising data (it doesn't) it would never come close to 600$ over the lifetime of a user.
I don't even understand what you mean by "biometric data" for advertising purposes. What biometric data is the quest collecting? How in the world is biometric data useful for advertising?
There's a reason why Meta is tens of billions of dollars in the hole for reality labs. It's not to subsidize for advertising that's for sure.
For VRChat it has even more benefits - built in eye tracking out of the box and and expansion port for which rumoredly there should be an official project Babble lower face tracker under development. :)
I'm really hopping for a combined face/vive tracker, because calibrating the Frame to Vive trackers is going to be annoying without it.
That’s a big reason I’m buying it (along with the wireless freedom of movement). VRChat has been a godsend of socialization and authenticity, and I want to immerse myself into it more with FBT, ET, and FT/MT such that it feels like a proper digital self. I couldn’t do that in my apartment layout with lighthouses a la BSB or Index, but the Frame and modern SteamVR/OpenXR suggests this will be one of the best ways to immerse into VR experiences going forward.
The fact I can throw it into my bag and travel with it is a bonus.
vrchat is just weird enough (and for, maybe, weird people) plus the new user experience/children yelling slurs situation makes it hard to even bring up to general audiences
I do think hardcore sims and vrchat are the only good reasons to get into vr now, though
I mean.. I could consider renting a pair over a weekend or something. But buying? No way
No better than the rest of the VR headsets that came before it and almost no-one wants them. These headsets will end up collecting dust with the Apple Vision Pro and the Meta Quest Pro.
We gave VR headsets enough time and this is just going to be a repeat failure of the previous ones.
Glasses such as the XReal on the other hand have a far better future than these VR headsets.
> Glasses such as the XReal on the other hand have a far better future than these VR headsets
Far into the future, perhaps. These glasses may be fine for short stints, but not for serious 8+hrs of productivity. I have a Viture Beast and I regret buying it. Even for short gaming stints, I still prefer my laptop or smartphone display as these glasses are such a downgrade.
The current XReal models are very underwhelming. Very narrow FOV more or less equivalent to using a 27" monitor, lots of fuss with the cable, switching sound to headphones because the built in speakers are garbage. Issues with HDR support.
The XReal is practically guaranteed to have sold less units than any generation of the Quest hardware.
Which means? We should buy the Meta Quest / Quest Pro headset? I don't think so.
Maybe that's the reason why the Meta Quest Pro is in "so much demand" that Meta is no longer selling them anymore. Apple is not even bothering to restock Vision Pro either.
So much demand /s
I am saying VR had a great run. We are not in the Covid era anymore which the Quest greatly benefited from this. VR has a very limited future and it shows.
> I am saying VR had a great run.
I am saying that too. AR had a comparatively terrible run - it's possible that Apple's Vision Pro moved even less units than XReal.
VR is niche, but a real market. It coexists with the AR world and still outsells it consistently, despite being a terribly unpopular market segment.
It means that your claim of AR glasses eventual popularity is even more spurious than a guy with a Rift DK1 saying that VR is destined for mainstream success. They're both wishcasting.
That’s a remarkably cheap storage upgrade too. First time I’ve ever thought the upgrade would be worth the money.
Brutal pricing. It would have been brutal at $600.
Having said that, there really is no other game quite like Half Life Alyx. It's so good, immersive and one of a kind. Perhaps worth the price of admission. It's so good that it kind of ruined VR gaming for me because all other games kind of felt like tech demos from that point on.
Yikes, what a terrible price. 55 minutes playing on-device Half Life Alyx. 1hr 30min streaming from a PC with dongle. 3 hours charge time. It's just pretty lame tbh. Damn :(
Is it really that bad? The hardware processing and storage is effectively a S24 which retails for $800. Add the additional displays, cameras and controllers, an extra $250 doesn’t seem that out there.
Whether it's a brutal price is separate from where it's fair for the hardware costs that went into it.
I don't want to buy that high end cell phone. First because I already have one (it would be very nice if I could have my phone handle compute from the back of my head or my pocket), second because I mostly want the headset to use with my desktop computer. $250 or $500 for a dumb headset with these features would be great.
Also charging 2-3x slower than you use the battery is very lame.
Eh, I don't think that's how the maths works, especially for products that are in completely different categories. For starters, display costs relatively much more on a VR headset compared to a 6" phone screen, the unit cost is much lower for a phone that is sold in many millions, the marketing cost is different etc. There will likely be actual breakdowns that provide some perspective into this.
Sure, it's not one to one, so the fact that the headset is so close to the retail price of a presumably much cheaper per unit flagship phone is why I don't really think the pricing is that bad for what it is.
I played it on my Quest 2 so that's not really the price of admission
This is a huge step backwards for VR. The headset is heavy, hot, and worst of all, expensive. This is the opposite of progress for this field.
Slim, lightweight form factors similar to that of the Bigscreen Beyond are not going to be practical in a self-contained headset for quite some time to come, at least if the goal is to play anything more demanding than Terraria on it and its price range is anywhere remotely within reach of the general consumer.
The only reason why Facebook has been able to swing such low prices is with steep subsidization, and the Quest hardware itself isn't much less bulky.
I hope the fact there's now a more open, Linux based VR headset will encourage more variety of headsets and price points, like we see with PCs, generic Android handhelds, etc.
I'd love someone (maybe even Bigscreen themselves) to make something like a standalone version of the Beyond 2. I'd be happy with some kind of puck or whatever for the compute and/or battery just to have it be that lightweight.
Weighs less than Quest 3 on the first review I saw? They also said weight was better distributed, not as heavy in the front area as others.
Watching the gamers nexus review, that seems not true? Outside of expensive.
Nitpicking a bit - once again another FOV of ~110. Sigh.
Maybe I’m just being picky, but I feel like I’m playing a submarine periscope simulator when I use these things. It’s been over a decade since the early VR headsets like the Rift, and it’s pretty much the same as it’s always been.
The only headset that didn’t give me this tunnel effect was the Pimax 8K, but it had its own problems.
Did you try it?
It's not heavy, it's very light. I bet it's not hot either.
The focus on mobile game graphic quality of the Quest was the real step back