The Fabled Flatbreads of Uzbekistan (2015)
aramcoworld.comMy wife and I own a restaurant. It's a tough business.
I feel like there must be more interest among native-born Americans in foreign food these days, based on the fact there's 3 Uzbek restaurants within a couple of neighboring cities (which are maybe 200k people total). There's apparently only ~2000 Uzbek-Americans in all of northern IL! And mostly concentrated over an hour's drive away from where these restaurants are.
That said, my wife and I were very interested to try the Tashkent bread. I think this article calls it out - it's better very fresh. It was really good, but not as amazing as we expected (maybe lunch is the time to dine at the Uzbek place closest to us).
I still find it amazing that even (probably) family-run restaurants for such a niche cuisine can make a go of it. I take it as a good sign about American dining preferences.
I guess if you're a migrant, an ethnic restaurant (is that term politically correct?) is one of the most obvious businesses you can start.
The Thai government used to sponsor (not sure if they still do) Thai diaspora who want to open a restaurant in a foreign country, it was their way to market the country and attract tourists.
Thai cuisine is remarkably interesting due to Global Thai and both the funding for restaurants as well as the standardization of curry recipes that was led by the government to help spread cultural awareness of the cuisine.
OK, I'll bite. In this particular case I personally would have said "a restaurant of your national cuisine" or even omit the adjective altogether since it's somewhat obvious from the preceding conversation what you mean.
My main qualm with this usage -- aside from being dated -- is that all cuisines are ethnic, but singling out the hypothetical migrant's as such implies that it is particularly ethnic. So in this sense it is a bit othering.
To be clear, I don't write this to call you out for your usage or accuse you -- I'm just answering your good-faith question.
RE your point, I don't agree that it's so obvious -- cooking and running a restaurant are pretty hard regardless of where you are from!
Here ethnic cuisine more or less means regional cuisine, where the region is outside of the speaker's own cultural identity. It goes beyond national, which is very broad. Therefore I think it's a fairly useful descriptor.
For example Oaxacan and TexMex are ethnically Mexican, but seen as regional within their borders by the respective nations. There's deeper indigenous roots there too. Food traditions of the Jewish diaspora can't be said to be Israeli cuisine. Things that start as regionally unique become seen as ethnic over time: I dunno like rocky mountain oysters, fish and chips, buffalo wings, as they become more intertwined with the culture of those people and that culture is exported.
Ethnicity was coined to avoid the racial connotations but in the US, ethnic studies brought it right back. If one wishes to avoid the word here maybe cultural is probably the best substitute but still a bit too narrow. You'll also see Global/International/Continental/Intercontinental as well, much like in music.. but I think that misses the point too.
Too bad. I considered pre-empting this exact response, and I did not, so here we are!
The term "national" doesn't simply mean "having to do with a nation state".
I promise that I do not mean to be condescending with this, but you can verify in Merriam-Webster's entry for "nationality" which is referenced by the entry for "national", or also the Wikipedia article on "national cuisine". The Merriam-Webster entries specifically give examples showing that my usage encompasses the examples you gave.
The terms "ethnicity" and "ethnic" are not problematic per se. There are a few reasons people object to usages such as "ethnic cuisine", one of which I mentioned in the comment you are replying to.
It mostly does, yes. Nation is political. National cuisine and the claim of certain dishes, if official, are driven by government. See gastronationalism.
You won't find Persian national cuisine. Iran however, yes, and it's mostly ethnically Persian. You'll find food traditions of other ethnic groups in Iran as well that aren't Persian. Iranian cuisine encompasses all of that within a political border.
I think you are conflating senses of the word, or rather you are defaulting to a very specific usage. There's the usage "Iranian national cuisine" which as you say is inherently political in nature because we mean "nation" in a civic and territorial sense, subsuming e.g. Persian, Azeri, Kurd cuisines, among others. There may be objections to specific inclusions or exclusions as we are considering Iran as a civic and political entity with borders, as you say
But it's perfectly fine to refer to "Kurdish national cuisine" or Persian national cuisine or Azeri national cuisine even in the absence of any nation state. So I'm using the term in an ethnocultural sense, not in the sense of something sanctioned by a nation state or a political entity. See also black nationalism or Kurdish nationalism -- no state is required here. You have political mobilisation around an ethnocultural designation rather than a government
See gastronationalism. It's not "a very specific usage." Black and Kurdish nationalism are political movements. You're welcome to say Persian national cuisine, but that can be interpreted in a number of ways. I wouldn't advise it.
Anyway. My point is that ethnic cuisine is not easily replaced by another term.
Migrant is actually the wrong word entirely, I think.
Migrants move around to follow the work. (Think more like "Nomad") Immigrants resettle in new places.
I'm reading more about it, and probably these restaurants survive based on a combination of:
- Family run, keeping labor low (labor always number 1 cost)
- Central Asian and Muslim customers (much more than just Uzbeks)
- Setting up in low-rent locations like strip malls
So a few big nights a week can sustain the family business. I guess there's a way it adds up to a profitable business.
>Migrant is actually the wrong word entirely, I think.
immigrant, im- (variant of in-) ; migrant into your country
emigrant, ex- ; migrant out of your country
both are still migrants. there is no specific cause for migration required to be an migrant.
you just need to move somewhere new to live.
You are technically correct. The best kind of correct!
In terms of common usage though, it's as I said, especially in North America.
I believe they were asking whether or not "ethnic" is the correct term.
"Foreign food" or "foreign restaurant" seems to be the norm where I live, but maybe I'm uncultured. "Ethnic" wouldn't offend anyone I don't think.
Could be. "Ethnic" sounds to my ear a lot less possibly offensive than "migrant" given the current climate.
I did notice that the Muslim Chinese restaurants have a lot of non-Chinese Muslim customers, maybe because they want halal.
The moment you ask yourself that- you are already poisoned. Because walking around on eggshells, makes you hate those who force you to be over considerate in time. Which results in buildup and release of tension.. just be yourself- and be kind intrinsicly..
Well, you have to be an esoteric migrant. This technique doesn’t really work for a Chinese or Indians.
Much of the Uzbek and Central Asian community is largely located in the Bay, NYC, and DMV. There are around 3 Uzbek restaurants in SF alone.
It’s wild how NYC trumps every other city for ethnic food by miles. The number of central Asian places (mostly Uzbek and Georgian) is probably closer to 100.
NYC is just a wonderful place. I lived there for a decade and loved every minute of it. I don’t want to live there anymore because now I have a family and I like having a huge amount of land and living in nature and serenity and all of that but New York City is one of the best places on the planet.
Theres Sofia (ex-Uzbek) and uzbegim, what’s the third one?
There used to be a third one a couple blocks away from Sofiya/Halal Dastarkhan in Tenderloin, but I think that may have shut down.
There also used to be 2 actual ethnic Uyghur restaurants (not Chinese from Xinjiang) in SF but they shut down as well.
"There's apparently only ~2000 Uzbek-Americans in all of northern IL"
where did you get this number? does that include chicago, because i live in Chicago area ... seems low.
https://www.neilsberg.com/insights/lists/uzbek-population-in...
Figuring some fudge factor too. It could be low - it's hard to find numbers for nationality counts for central Asians broken down by state.
that websites estimates are definitely too low - e.g. there are definitely more than 40 Uzbek people in Chicago... I've been to 3 uzbek restaurants in Chicago proper myself.
Broadly (in another comment I made) I think I've made sense of it. Regardless of the real population, it's probably not just the Uzbek population sustaining these places. That most likely wouldn't be viable.
My wife's restaurant for example targets a nationality that is wayyyy more numerous (not Mexicans; that'd be easy enough), and it's tough for us to stay profitable.
My wife and I started something during Covid where we'd pick a random city in the world (there are websites that do this for you), look at the region's popular/common dishes and pick one to cook for the weekend. Most recent was Mirza Ghasemi: A smoked eggplant dish cooked with garlic, tomatoes, and eggs, from the Caspian Sea area.
We would also sometimes make flatbreads from the area but man is it messy to do in your own place with flour flying around everywhere. We do make the flatbreads sometimes but it's usually easier to just buy frozen paratha from the Indian store.
Biggest surprise - everything's stew.
> Mirza Ghasemi: A smoked eggplant dish cooked with garlic, tomatoes, and eggs, from the Caspian Sea area.
Eggplant is one of those incredible veggies that seemingly not a lot of people know what to do with. You can bake it on a grill or your cooktop stove to give it that amazing smokey taste. I often eat it as-is without adding anything else but pairing with eggs takes it to the next level. There is another dish from that same general region called Ajapsandali which is probably one of the tastiest breakfast meals you'll ever eat if you like eggplant.
Eggplant, after being charred on an open flame, is an incredibly versatile and flavorful ingredient to put into other vegetable dishes. Shout out to the Indian baingan bharta of course. Ratatouille made with charred eggplant is simply amazing.
The word "non" used throughout the article is the origin of the term "naan bread" from Indian culture (the Central Asian Turks/Mughals who ruled most of India for centuries developed "naan bread").
Unagi Don using Aubergine is one of the few vegan cheats that is arguably better than the original. Rukmini Iyer does a nice riff with a vegan traybake on a similar theme that's very easy to throw together
https://thehappyfoodie.co.uk/recipes/miso-aubergines-with-to...
> using Aubergine
Is “aubergine” a true synonym of “eggplant” or are you referring to a regional variety of some kind, different from the “eggplant” in other comments here?
Eggplant is called aubergine in UK and Ireland. Full true synonym.
Aubergines are eggplants are brinjals.
I generally like lots of vegetables, and while I can certainly enjoy a good eggplant parmesan (anything breaded and fried with cheese and marinara sauce is usually pretty easy to like), eggplant has got to be my least favorite vegetable, and I've tried it lots of different ways.
It just has the consistency of some kind of styrofoam to me (or else just turns to mush if it's overcooked) with a bitter-ish taste I don't like. While it can serve the purpose of "it just soaks up the flavor/sauce of whatever it's cooked in", there are lots of other vegetables/beans/tofu I'd much rather use for that purpose than eggplant.
I have the same experience with eggplant. I wonder if this is one of those tiny taste differences that is some sort of genetic/epigenetic in origin (not quite supertaster but atypical) since there’s several different experiences expressed here about eggplant. For instance, cantaloupe always tastes a bit rotten to me - even when tasting the same fresh cut fruit with friends and family it is pleasant for them and not for me.
Baked and made into a curry works for me. i.e. Baingan Bharta
It's remarkably easy to make at home, although worth trying as a side dish (at a restaurant) if you like Indian food.
Worth bathing the decently sliced eggplant in whipped egg and then in flour, and frying in a decent amount of oil. Add herbs. Simple. This is common in the Mediterranean.
When cooking over gas, it is nice to remove the skin in cold water, chop up coarsely, and add yoghurt, garlic, olive oil, salt and herbs, with a good whizzing up following, to make a decent dip for flatbread or anything else.
I never liked eggplant as a kid, but my Chinese in-laws make some amazing eggplant dishes. My favourite is one where they cut it into inch thick slices, then slice the slice about 3/4 of the way through and stuff it with a seasoned pork mince, dust it with flour and deep fry until golden.
Super good. I also love the Chinese bbq eggplant and ofc the classic ‘three delicacies from the ground’ (地三鲜）
While I don't care for eggplant, I used to make an exception for Moussaka Pizza (eggplant and meatballs) from Waterford Pizza in Waterford, CT. (I believe they're still there; but, it's been 40+ years.)
> Ajapsandali
I looked it up and that looks great. Kind of like vegetarian goulash with all of the peppers. And simple. I think we'll try this soon.
> Mirza Ghasemi: A smoked eggplant dish cooked with garlic, tomatoes, and eggs, from the Caspian Sea area.
That sounds good. Makes me think of hunkar begendi.
everything's stew. everything's a variation of the 4 easiest ingredients for humans to cultivate plus one or two local or regional specials
garlic/onions: aliums that thrive in most climates
rice: grass that can be drowned (to fuck off pests)
eggs: per day, one chicken produces enough binding enzymes to thicken and modify a meal for 5-8 people
veg/seed oils: cooking, flavor, etc
and since that's in the caspian sea area, they also have a ready supply of tomatoes and eggplant from centuries of trading with asia
Tomatoes are a New World crop, so those come from the Colombian exchange rather than some sort of thousands-year-old Silk Road trading history.
stew is also - the most forgiving dish regarding meats.. bad cut? Just stew it more.. this can go so far- that soldiers who where starving where used to cooking down the leather of boots and tournisters..
> from the Caspian Sea area
That's a funny way of saying Gilan, Iran. The dish was invented by (and is named after) Mohammad Ghasem Khan Vali, the governer of Gilan province.
I didn't see that anywhere. Is that like general Tso's chicken being from a chinese general?
No, more like saying that a classic Chinese this is from "Eastern Asia area"
I wonder how close that dish is to the Indian one Baingan Bharta (it lacks eggs).
It's similar but the egg almost makes it like custard and the spice is only turmeric and some red pepper and garlic. It's more subtle.
It makes sense and is also a surprise to see that Aramco has a lifestyle publishing arm.
That aside, this was a great article. There are some great videos on yt as well showing the baking process. But what those videos don’t show that this article points to is the these Uzbek bakers use natural sour dough leavening. I wish this article also included a recipe for the dough.
Another thing this article does that I like is that it describes how to eat these loaves, because it’s hard to guess just by looking at them. Hoping I get a chance to try one of these loaves someday.
I've spent a lot of time chasing Uzbek bread and plov on YouTube, so I was very very surprised to see an oil company publishing such a beautiful article. I jsut hope it's not a sign of oil exploitation in Uzbekistan...
Uzbekistan has long been one of the largest natural gas exporters in the world and that is set to increase as they have huge untapped reserves. Same story with oil although they aren’t yet a top exporter, so far as I know.
Apparently there is some active oil production there, but mostly run by Uzbekneftegaz, an Uzbek (not Saudi) company.
(I don't follow the Central Asian energy industry, I just found this on the Internet.)
Uzbek food is very popular with all people from the former USSR. So there will be a lot more demand than just Uzbek-Americans.
Totally. I take my family to the kosher Uzbek places here in NYC for just that reason.
I went to an Uzbek restaurant in SF a couple weeks ago called Sofiya. Highly recommend. Food was so good that I want to visit the country now and probably will within the next year.
Thanks for the pointer, my (Ukrainian) family is going to love this. Plov!
Thanks, will try!
Yay, an article about my country is on the HN frontpage!
Uzbekistan has a very rich history. Samarkand (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samarkand) is a highly fascinating city added by UNESCO to its "World Heritage List" as Crossroad of Cultures - https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/603/
Justin Marozzi's book Tamerlane: Sword of Islam, Conqueror of the World is a great read on Timur who i believe is considered almost a god in your country (like Genghis Khan in Mongolia) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timur
There was also a classic russian movie titled "Nepobedimyy"(1983) (https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0261099/) aka "The Invincible" on one of the founders of the russian martial art of Sambo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sambo_(martial_art)) which was shot in Uzbekistan and features their styles of wrestling. It was almost like a documentary and i loved it for how real and earthy it was both for the martial arts and the locations.
Watch on Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GLvE5cCFY0 or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gssvFq0aRas
Article gave me an idea that Indus Valley seals were baker's stamps - that's why the imprinted goods were never found (eaten!).
I spent about a year of my life in Uzbekistan. Food there is pure heaven
Yes. It is.
And instead of trying to replicate that - it's a learning experience, you learn the world trying that - some advocate for hideous inductive panels. If I were somewhat religious I would say that this is a blasphemy. An unforgivable sin.
I did learn few things, everyone loves my Plov ;) No shortage of ingredients in Toronto and proper cookware.
I know someone who spent ~ a year in rural Kyrgyzstan, and found the food to be very meat-based, with little variety. Maybe different in the cities, since they enjoyed the trips to Bishkek, and possibly Tashkent, somewhat more.
Never ben to Kyrgyzstan. In Uzbekistan - yes lots of meat but also superb veggies and fruits.
Uzbek cuisine is a fascinating phenomenon because its traditions were shaped by interesting geography, climate and history. It is a double-land-locked country, therefore the lack of seafood and saltwater plants forced them to get inventive. Luckily, the agricultural heaven, which the region was in until the Soviet state's imbecilic decisions killed the Aral Sea, provided enormous variety. Imagine, the nature there even not too long ago was nothing short of amazing. There were species of tigers that went extinct in the 1970s (!) and freshwater fish that had existed nowhere else.
The geopolitical placement of the region made it a desirable target for invasions, and indeed that happened many times - Persians, Greeks/Macedonians, Seleucids, Greco-Bactrians, Scythians, Xiongnu, Huns, Arabs, Mongols, Chinese, Russians, etc. And every invader brought their cultural norms, and food traditions. Forced deportation of Koreans (by Stalin) added more to the pile. Fun fact: "traditional" Korean dishes of Central Asia have no equivalents in actual Korean cuisine, because people couldn't grow or find the ingredients endemic to the Korean peninsula, so they had to make their own, unique recipes.
Uzbeks take enormous pride in their cuisine and it is ingrained in their DNA - they can easily justify prepping a dish for weeks, then cooking it for over twenty hours, absolutely intending it to be devoured in less than fifteen minutes. That is the [uzbek] way.
I could probably spend a whole month eating fresh bread there every day and enjoy it more than a Michelin starred restaurant.
There are lots of excellent Youtube videos on the legendary breads of Uzbekistan - https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=uzbekistan+brea...
Some of the Tandir/Tandoor ovens are large enough to be a walk-in!
its pretty rare to see Uzbekistan on global news and even HN frontpage.. i have been there in May, its pretty wonderful. Although English isn't spoken in many places, I had a great impression of the food. I actually went there for the Soviet architecture at first, but the local atmosphere of daily life was also unforgettable. I randomly picked restaurants a few times, and both the meat and the bread (non/naan) were delicious
its very safe and the prices are cheap. The only downside is that public toilets are scarce and they all charge a fee, which is really hard to deal with as a Chinese person. I was shocked that the price of using a restroom often exceeded the price of a loaf of naan
also this reminds me to refresh my personal blog domain and keep writing blogs.. because i have no where to post travel blogs like this for now.
Surely "naan" would have been a way better transliteration choice than "non", right?
No, Uzbeks themselves use “non” when using Latin alphabet. Fun fact: in the past Uzbek language has been written in arabic, cyrillic, and, since ~2018, in latin.
Source: grew up there
1. English transliteration has its own cultural inertia. It's not just about what's most phonetically sensible (that too only for some particular English region: how an American phonetizes non would be different from how a Brit or Aussie would).
2. Don't assume the Uzbeks say this word the same way as the Indians do. It may very well sound closer to "non" in Uzbekistan.
Uzbeks do say "non".
It seems like a non issue to me.
No, in Uzbek it is actually "non" and not "naan", "palov" and not "pilav", "somsa" and not "samosa", "tandir" and not "tandoor".
I got a job at the local Uzbek restaurant, but before I could learn all the recipes and secret ingredients, I had to sign a naan disclosure agreement.
Probbly a deliberate choice to distinguish it from its Indian sibling?
This has some resemblance to albeit the much simpler bread found in Pompei.
2700 bc.. the world was already old in the olden times.. i wish we had a "heroes" journey book- where every text is a link to its inspirations, going all the way back..
I immediately googled “Uzbek population centers in United States”
Okay, how can I get a sampler pack of all those breads delivered here in the States?
Honest answer? This is not simple, because to authentically bake that kind of bread, you'd need the "tandir". No, it's not like Punjabi or Indian traditional tandoors, those are similar yet different. Uzbek one's pronounced similar to "thunder" and it's made of special clay, you really can't order one in some pottery shop here in the US.
Some restaurateurs have managed to ship fragmented oven pieces all the way from there to clay them back together here. I reckon only a few authentic tandirs exist in the West, and most of them are on the east coast.
Your best bet for getting bona fide Uzbek bread is to ask someone traveling from Uzbekistan to bring you some. Anything else is not guaranteed not to be a pale attempt at a replica. And ask natives, not tourists without a clue - there's a wide variety - Samarkand and Tashkent bread can differ in size, tenderness, texture and taste, Ferghana valley recipes may include goat milk products that may completely change everything about it.
Darn, I was afraid I would have to make a trip just for the food. Although maybe I could turn to a food import business.
When I was in Scandinavia a few years ago, I discovered their sausages served in, I think, what is called a French roll (a tube of bread). I briefly considered setting up a food truck called "Scandi Dogs," selling these sausages in the same rolls as they serve in Europe with a side of vanilla ice cream dipped in salted licorice. And yes, that licorice ice cream combination is great once you get past the salt lick impact of the first bite.
> I would have to make a trip just for the food
Totally. There are too many dishes to count that don't exist and unlikely ever will outside of that country. Traditional sausage Qazi is a must try; Naryin is a dish with customs tied specifically to Tashkent region - they usually don't make it in Samarkand, Bukhara or in the valley. Sumalak gets cooked in huge pots simmering whole night - women take turns to stir it, while singing songs and gossiping. Osh-palov is something worth waking up at 5AM just to go try it first thing in the morning. Khonim is better than any lasagna you ever had. Samosas have so many different shapes and flavors. Kebabs, oh my - that merits its own post. There are traditional cheese balls, for some reason, some westerners love them like crazy - "best thing to have with beers", some find them unsavory. There are different kinds of soups, dozen types of salads, pastries, deserts.
Besides traditional Uzbek - Persian/Turkic dishes, there are many ethic communities with their own unique cuisine, e.g. some Armenian dishes are made only there and nowhere else. Azerbaijani chicken gets marinated in special onion sauce for days, making the meat heavenly tender. Uzbek Koreans have their own traditions and Korean dishes that you can't find in the Korean peninsula itself, which confuses Taskent-visiting Koreans.
Anyway, culinary tourism to Central Asia is an absolute hit these days. It was difficult and even unsafe to travel before, when it was under harsh dictatorship. The place is still authoritarian, but much more relaxed. Just make sure not to bring any drugs, weed included - and you'll be fine.
Seems they've got an IP block on Israel.
In the 1990s I travelled through Xinjiang and Gansu in China's northwest. At the time most of the people in rural areas were Uighur, Hui, Tibetan, or other minorities.
At one of the Uighur bazaars they were cooking all kinds of breads and skewered meat. I remember asking one of the younger guys about one that looked like a toasted puff pastry and he called it 烤包子 in Mandarin, i.e. "roasted dumpling." It had lamb inside, and it was fantastic, like a lighter version of a Cornish pasty.
Great article,