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An alternative construction of Shannon entropy

rkp.science

126 points by rkp8000 a year ago · 11 comments

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IdealeZahlen a year ago

Calling this 'alternative' construction seems like coming full circle since this line of combinatorial argument is how Boltzmann came up with his H-function in the first place, which inspired Shannon's entropy.

  • rkp8000OP a year ago

    Yep! This relationship is well known in statistical mechanics. I was just surprised that in many years of intersecting with information theory in other fields (computational neuroscience in particular) I'd never come across it before, even though IMO it provides an insightful perspective.

kgwgk a year ago

Seems similar to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_maximum_entropy#T...

mturmon a year ago

This is what I learned as the “theory of types” from Cover and Thomas, chapter 11, from original work by Imre Csiszar. See just under “theorem 6” in

https://web.stanford.edu/class/ee376a/files/2017-18/lecture_...

The key (which is not in OP) is not the construction of E log(p), but in being able to prove that the “typical set” exists (with arbitrarily high probability), and that the entropy is its size.

xigoi a year ago

The site is unreadable on mobile because it disables overflow on the equations (which it shows as images, even though it’s 2024 and all modern browsers support MathML).

  • masfuerte a year ago

    Today I learned! I'd missed the news that MathML was back in Chrome. I've been publishing web pages using MathML for years, along with a note that the equations don't render in Chrome. I can finally remove the note.

ivansavz a year ago

Nice!

The key step of the derivation is counting the "number of ways" to get the histogram with bar heights L1, L2, ... Ln for a total of L observations.

I had to think a bit why the provided formula is true:

   choose(L,L1) * choose(L-L1,L2) * ... * choose(Ln,Ln)
The story I came up with for the first term, is that in the sequence of lenght L, you need to choose L1 locations that will get the symbol x1, so there are choose(L,L1) ways to do that. Next you have L-L1 remaining spots to fill, and L2 of those need to have the symbol x2, hence the choose(L-L1,L2) term, etc.
Maro a year ago

In Physics, the log part comes in when you use the Stirling approximation for large N.

Ideal gas: https://bytepawn.com/entropy-of-an-ideal-gas-with-coarse-gra...

Physical gas: https://bytepawn.com/the-physical-sackur-tetrode-entropy-of-...

canjobear a year ago

Interestingly this has a rather frequentist flavor. The probabilities end up coming from frequency ratios in very large samples.

  • derbOac a year ago

    That line of inferential philosophy is very Jaynesian, for those who are interested.

ziofill a year ago

Eh ok, but the trick is then taking the limit for L->infty and use Stirling’s approx which is what Shannon did

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