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I can delete my FB, Google, Apple and Reddit data. Why not Hacker News?

20 points by headShrinker 4 years ago · 41 comments · 1 min read

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Simple quick question and I’m starting to wonder if this needs a legal explanation. Delete my comments and data Dang!

dang 4 years ago

HN's approach hasn't changed since the last time you brought this up: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23622865. Sending aggressive emails to other departments at YC isn't going to make it change, and neither is posting metathreads to HN.

For users who might not know about the approach we take—here's a typical response I send to emails:

HN doesn't remove entire account histories, because that would gut the threads the account had participated in, which would be unfair to the other users in those threads. But we can randomize the username and disable the account if you'd like.

We also often delete or redact specific posts that users are worried about. If that would help, send us links and we'll take a look. We don't want anyone to get in trouble from anything they posted to HN.

The reason for this approach is that deletion is a complex issue with tradeoffs between competing interests: individual interest in privacy, other commenters' interest in having their posts remain intelligible, the community's interest in having its archive preserved. There are no perfect solutions, so a line has to be drawn somewhere.

One reason why I say there are no perfect solutions is that there are copies of the HN archives all over the internet. We don't control those, so a determined attacker wouldn't find it hard to get around any deletion we do, even if we deleted everything.

Since there's no way to satisfy all concerns nor to provide perfect protection, it's all about where to draw the line in the solution space, knowing that any line we draw is going to leave something unsatisfied. The way we draw the line–no wholesale deletion, but specific deletion/redaction along with username randomization—has so far held up as a good compromise over the years. It goes back many years: pg wrote about it at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6813226, and if you read deeper in that thread you'll see that he agreed with username randomization as the key missing piece. We added that some years later. Until new information shows up that changes the landscape significantly, I think it makes sense to stick with it.

We care a lot about meeting users' concerns for protection and we take care of these requests literally every day—we just try to do it with more precise tools than wholesale deletion. It's rare for anyone to go away unhappy—certainly 99%, probably 99.9% are satisfied with how we respond. Those that do go away unhappy tend either to express their concerns rather theoretically (as a philosophical argument rather than something specific they need) or to be mad about something we did on the site (perhaps understandably, but that's not necessarily a reason to change this policy).

version_five 4 years ago

You can email hn@ycombinator.com and ask for them to be deleted. I'll see if I can find the source for this

  • headShrinkerOP 4 years ago

    I did ask. They won’t.

    • version_five 4 years ago

      Understood. You've probably seen this discussion then: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23623799

      It looks like they are willing to work with you to preserve your anonymity, but I'm guessing from your post that this process hasn't worked for you.

      • codingdave 4 years ago

        OP here was also OP there. This looks like an issue clearly of concern to them, but there is some piece of the story we are missing if they repeat this question once a year or so while still participating on the site between asks.

        • version_five 4 years ago

          Thanks I didn't see that. So this whole thread is dupe then.

          • headShrinkerOP 4 years ago

            No. No it’s not a dupe. Just as if FB still hadn’t changed one of their boneheaded policies a year after it was raised as a concern the first time.

        • headShrinkerOP 4 years ago

          You aren’t missing anything. Everything is public and I am an open book about this situation. I’m a privacy advocate, I delete accounts on social media from time to time, just not on HN, thus the posts. I have chatted with dang, posted, and emailed HN.

authed 4 years ago

What I do to mitigate the issue is switch account every few months... It means that I usually can't down-vote and flag post or comments, but it is worth it

  • headShrinkerOP 4 years ago

    Bad solution to a bad problem caused by bad reasoning from bad administration.

    • authed 4 years ago

      What better solution do you have? Cause I don't think you'll get Dang to change his mind

neximo64 4 years ago

Why should they? The comments are handy years on. Use a pseudonym?

  • headShrinkerOP 4 years ago

    If my comments are not handy, delete them. If they are handy then I deserve compensation. If I created it I can destroy it. If I created it and was not compensated then I maintain ownership and copyright control. Delete them now! This has been fought in courts and won.

    • drdeca 4 years ago

      The legal notes at https://www.ycombinator.com/legal/#tou say "By uploading any User Content you hereby grant and will grant Y Combinator and its affiliated companies a nonexclusive, worldwide, royalty free, fully paid up, transferable, sublicensable, perpetual, irrevocable license to copy, display, upload, perform, distribute, store, modify and otherwise use your User Content for any Y Combinator-related purpose in any form, medium or technology now known or later developed. " .

      If you do not wish your User Content to be displayed, I recommend that you do not upload it to the site.

      [disclaimer to avoid any possible appearance of pretending to be affiliated with the site in any way beyond just being a user of it, goes here]

    • scantis 4 years ago

      Most HN users are circumventing copyright restriction and paywalls to make content available to a wider audience. Weirdly enough they draw the line with citations, this is why so many projects are attributed to weird internet nicks.

      Usually doxxing those nicks wouldn't result in financial compensation, but lots of legal trouble.

      What you want is fringe and confusion to me, especially in this context. You control your nick and your comments are attributed to it.

      If somebody else uses your comments for something useful, they can cite your nick.

      • headShrinkerOP 4 years ago

        Irrelevant to our concerns here. What other people do with other information is not my concern. What HN does with my information is of direct concern and legal consequence.

    • Andys 4 years ago

      Your compensation is participation in the forum; you benefit from everyone else posting content.

      • headShrinkerOP 4 years ago

        That’s not compensation. That’s companionship. There’s a difference.

        (Look Dang, no name calling)

WalterGR 4 years ago

See the FAQ linked at the bottom of the page.

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