Ask HN: Will you ever eat meat that is grown in lab?
What are all the bad events that can come along with any progress in this direction? Sure. I like meat, but if there's a version that I can eat that doesn't involved slaughtering animals, that's a net positive. If it's not slaughtering animals then its not meat. Its like suddenly some one comes and calls some thing meat n then we order 2 of those. Vegetarian is a reasonable alternate if we don't want to slaughter meat. Meat like tasting vegetarian alternate is also reasonable. But lab grown meat is the most unnatural thing. How does eating a thing which is 99% unnatural constitute as eating food. Its just eating a thing. There is a crowd which wants to avoid as much artificial things in food and eat natural food and there is a crowd which wants to eat 100% artificial thing like lab grown meat. I wonder which crowd will win in the end. Have you seen farm raised chickens and cows? I would argue that there is nothing natural about that either. The modern farm animal wouldn't survive in the wild. They are bred to grow at insane rates, are fed hormones, and get too heavy to be mobile. Not to mention, what impact this has on the nutritional content and chemical content of our meats, and what impact they are having on us. If you are concerned about eating naturally, I think you should start allocating time in your day to hunting for wild food. Nothing about the human diet is "natural" anymore. Poorly growing cattle is a real problem, The more people stop purchasing such products and move towards responsibly sourced and grown chicken or other animals that provide meat this problem can be solved. But why not work towards such a right solution and look for shortcut and artificial solutions like lab grown meat. How can a lab grown meat and a animal that naturally grow be one and the same? Arthanari, I've noticed you're pushing this idea of artificial ingredients being added to the meat. Genuine question, are you talking about certain lab grown meat products vs others? Look at this excerpt from a wired article [1]:
At Finless Foods, they take a bit of fish meat and filter it for a particular kind of cell, not so much stem cells but stem-like cells, what they’re calling progenitor cells. “We're looking for cells that have the ability to differentiate into different lineages,” says Selden. “So we're looking for cells that are stem enough.” The idea is to trick these cells into thinking they’re still in their owner. So by feeding them nutrients like salts and sugars, Finless can get the cells to turn into muscles or fat or connective tissue. Think of it like sourdough yeast: Once you’ve got a starter strain, you can keep making a distinctive bread. “Once each of these companies has a cell line going,” says Selden, “they never have to go back to the initial animal.” >> Cultured meat production requires a preservative, such as sodium benzoate, to protect the growing meat from yeast and fungus. Collagen powder, xanthan gum, mannitol and cochineal could be used in different ways during the process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat This is what wikipedia says. They are all bad for health and simply used to extend the life time of a product beyond its natural lifetime so that the seller does not loose the money and with no other healthy intent. https://www.glutenfreeschool.com/2014/06/10/what-is-xanthan-... 15 grams or not. Why eat it when there can be better choices. The whole process is artificial. But with that rationale, so is our current factory farming process. Animals don't naturally graze, they are fed all the food they need.
They don't naturally die. They are killed.
They aren't naturally conceived, they are inseminated. Where does the "natural" absolutism end? So instead of working on improving this process we are totally jumping ship to a artificial process? So basically we have given up on such a simple task of raising good cattle which our ancestors have been doing for centuries because some scientists found some cool trick to multiply cells in the lab and are looking for ways to push their cool inventions on the masses to feel good and important? What exactly are you referring to with "99% unnatural"? My understanding of lab grown meat is that it is intended (ideally) to be equivalent to meat that you would obtain through traditional means so the difference is in the production method, not the product. It is artificial because it's made by humans. If it gives the same product with a significantly reduced negative impact on the environment then I'm all for it (although I would agree that people should actually try and eat less meat too). What's your objection to the process being artificial? I don't know what you mean by "not slaughtered, not meat". Can you please elaborate? What is meat? Can you please elaborate? Not before you answer the question without asking one. Agreed. I’d prefer it if it otherwise the same (taste/nutrients). So basically you would prefer to eat any artificial thing which matches the taste and nutrient or a natural food? Hardly anything natural about the animals (or even fruits and vegetables) we eat. They’ve all been specially and quite artificially bred for our consumption. I recently heard a comment on a non-topical podcast along the lines that "everything is GMO". Your favorite herloom tomatoes at the farmer's market, the corn, the lettuce, your dog, the beef, your cat, yourself. GMO is "evolution, faster" or at least customised in a lab. If one thinks I should have a fundamental problem with this view, I'd like to hear why. I am not a vegetarian, but I would happily pay double to eat meat that doesn't result in an animal being killed. But it'd have to taste okay, at least, for me to make that jump. Doesn't have to be perfect, but has to satisfy a craving for a burger or something like that. Why settle for the at least? when we can have the perfect one. I think there are things beyond just craving, Y isn't it about eating the most healthy food? If we care so much about "an animal being killed" then what to do to tigers and lions and other carnivores. I think a lion eating a deer feels more natural than a man eating a lab grown thing. Why this much push into loosing our nature? Apart from capitalism could there be any other reason? I think it comes down to progress. Most of the meat we consume has a heavy toll on the environment. And with many other countries developing, gaining wealth and having the purchasing power to consume meat regularly, it's going to be a disaster. We innovate in so many respects, why can't we innovate with tasty, satisfying ways to consume proteins and fats that don't have the destructive nature that our current system has? If it is tasty and affordable, why not? Almost everything we eat nowadays is already highly optimized through selective breeding over thousands of years, so adding lab-grown meat does not make our food less "natural" than it is already. On the other hand, lab-grown meat will probably use much less resources compared to traditionally produced meat, while not causing any issues with regard to (bad) treatment / killing of actual animals. Yes, without a doubt. It takes many of the downsides of meat out of the equation (animal cruelty, environmental impact, use of antibiotics). I don't know how the health effects would change though. Don't you think a lab grown meat is something that is 100% antibiotics? It is odd how one says Yes without a doubt to something that one eats, but also is aware of being unaware of its health effects. It is very scary though... Don't you think we should eat something that is guaranteed to bring good health to us... Wouldn't lab grown meat have no antibiotics since they probably won't encounter any random diseases. Any idea why they wont have any disease? Because they are not even a living entity. they are just a non living thing, like a stone or sand or plastic or shells in the ocean. Would humans be inclined to eat a non living thing? As a living being i think we should be eating other living beings, like a vegetable or organic salmon... If we can easily believe that eating lab grown meat and real living natural food is same then why don't we believe fake news as real? They also sound real, they also have words, they also have websites they also appear to have likes... This effort to make the boundary between nature and artificial disappear isn't it like making ourselves disappear, are we humans not natural beings? Ok I suppose I should add caveats, like I am assuming that this would be FDA approved and tested by a few independent sources before being put on grocery shelves. Regarding your thoughts on whether it's a living thing, is purely philosophical. It sounds to me like you haven't actually seen what goes into these artificial meats. They extract cells from animals and feed them the nutrients they need (like amino acids) to cause the cells to divide and grow like they would in the animal's body. So whether a muscle grew with a cow over years, or it grew in a lab, does that really matter? Is an organ that's grown on a pig any less an organ than one grown in a human? I was thinking because they don't need to be exposed to farm conditions, with disease being able to transmit from animal to animal. Because meat isn't true or untrue, it provides things your bodies need, things it doesn't need, or things that are harmful to it. I'll be honest, I'm not totally on board, but I don't see any reason we shouldn't grow meat in a lab, and probably many benefits. But vats can still support bacteria colonies, just like cows can. Ideally, they'd be sterilized between batches, in a way that left no residue on the product. In practice, though, I wonder if they won't need to use antibiotics (or something like them) in order to ensure a safe product. The advantage will be that all those antibiotics don't run off into the soil... except for the plant's wastewater. Still, it ought to be more localized than the current practice. Reading your comments in this post, by now I must ask: what is your continued interest here? Are you honestly interested in "keep Humans natural" or similar? Are you in the meat industry? My daughter has significant food sensitivities. Certain foods cause dramatic behavioral changes. Dyes are a problem. Corn is a problem. Soybeans are a problem. Chemicals in the food are a problem. We've learned the hard way to be very careful about what she eats. So I'm suspicious of "it's just the same". Yeah, it is, except for the traces of stuff where it's not. Those traces may not matter to most people. (Then again, they may - prions, anyone?) But to at least some people, the small differences really matter, not because of their taste buds or their feelings about their food, but because they legitimately react strongly to some things. But you, why are you so eager to discredit someone whose viewpoint (I assume) differs from your own? Why are you so eager to ascribe bad faith or ulterior motives to someone? Just wondering what could be the reason many think lab grown meat is a food when no other food falls in that criteria. Haven't got any convincing point yet. Only some distracting ones which become clear on the second read. Is there any other lab grown thing that we have eaten? Hydroponics comes to mind, replace soil with water, provide nutrients artificially, pretty similar really. Health concerns are a valid point. And I'm not trying to discredit someone with different opinions. I'm trying to understand that person on a deeper level than they've so far given. Are you in the lab grown meat industry? Not even a little bit. Your turn to answer. My answer too is No. I am just concerned poor materials being introduced as food in the image of doing good which may mislead many who don't look deeper. I feel like they could keep everything totally sterilized.
Hopefully with everything roboticised. I am waiting for the day when I can buy lab grown meat. I am a vegetarian since March 17, 2012 and boy do I miss meat. I had to give up meat because I couldn't stand killing animals for my taste but now lab grown meat will give me the pleasure without the guilt! What if all the lions in this planet think I couldn't stand killing a deer? Where on this planet do lions naturally live alongside deer? This what-if seems as unnatural as the lab meat you seem so concerned about. Don't lions eat meat? I'm not interested in lab grown meat. I don't each much meat anyway, but the meat that I do eat is grass fed & finished and raised semi-locally. I prefer the path closer to nature than to the lab. Absolutely not. It's not about the meat, it's about how poor judgement peope have in terms of sustainability. Meat is meat. And meat is ok. Whats not okay is mass production of it, or any other kind. Instead of growing anything in a lab, think about what you consume. This goes for everything. I would much rather eat a chicken that is produced locally than one I have no idea what went through. This goes for everything I eat. Even though I am not even close to being fanatic. Its okay to consume but please do it respectfully and reflect upon it. Lab grown food is simply to futuristic for me Thats a great, but naive mindset. The average person eats what they can get at the lowest cost. The market dictates consumption for the majority of the population. The populous won't stop consuming unsustainable, anti-biotic ridden, polluting meat until there is a cheaper but equally satisfying alternative. Yes, I agree most people don't care. But I won't be eating lab grown meat either. I have the money, and when I consume things, I'd rather they be of good quality (i.e. certain organic foods that are locally produced). Personally I don't mind paying double, triple or even quadruple the price on something if I know it is of better quality and/or healthier. Then again, I also don't eat meat every single day, while many people do. Probably great for the masses, but not for me. Lab grown meat is being touted as more sustainable, since you don't have to raise an entire animal. Also, wouldn't lab grown meat be more precise, like with normal chickens you have no idea what exactly what they ate, or how they mutated. But with lab grown meat it would be the same every time. Raising an animal and growing a piece of meat is entirely different things, they don't compliment each other. Raising an animal is giving it natural food and let its different organs do its work and let it grow into full animal by using natural processes that has been happening for ever. Lab grown meat is using artificial process to force some flesh to grow which we recently assume have figured out n force ourselves to believe its authentic, This is something that we have found in last few years. Why would anyone believe a noob tech when there is a grandiose nature in the picture. >> like with normal chickens you have no idea what exactly what they ate, or how they mutated. like with lab grown chicken you have no idea what chemical process got misunderstood/ abused, what particular pound of meat did not go through all the process, and how the human error got over looked, and what decaying factor is involved in this... How come in the same species one crowd can be thinking organic/ natural/ home grown food and other crowd can be thinking lab grown meat... Mutations in nature can happen totally randomly, with no guarantee that they will benefit humans. Whereas in a lab maybe something will go wrong, once we get it right, it's right forever. On the one hand, I'm not aware of any research that says eating organic foods is more healthy. Also I think it's people reacting to new things, like some people hear lab grown meat and are grossed out, others are excited about a more efficient way of farming. New technology is always divisive it seems. When this technology becomes mature, what then is your opinion? Are you as skeptical against all "noob tech" or just this one? Or just "artificial processes" in certain areas like food, whatever you count as that (why not farming or gardening too)? I may be a bit old-fashioned in this regard, but no, I (probably) wouldn't. A lot of "fake meat" includes soy, which is known to simulate estrogen iirc. Also, it's kinda for the same reason I won't eat bugs (even if safe and tasty): it's just not to my taste, and that's okay. No, at least not for a fair amount of time before it comes out. I want to wait for real (independent) data on health effects and nutrition. I want to wait for data on long-term health effects. By independent, I mean not just independent of the grower, but perhaps also of the FDA. >> long term health effects Does it mean 100 years of data. Shouldn't we see 100 years of data before we decide on whether something is safe to consume. I am sure we have 100+ years of data that consuming naturally grown chicken meat is healthy. I wouldn't mind being that data. What gives you so much motivation to be that data? No, can't believe that. Yes if it tastes the same and is much cheaper than it is at the moment As soon as possible. What if we stop eating chicken and then they go extinct? Would those who caused this by switching to lab grown meat feel bad about it? And if they go extinct then is there any net benefit in we stopping to eat them? > What if we stop eating chicken and then they go extinct? People keep chickens as pets. Also eggs. Sure, but the world population of chickens probably still crashes...