Ask HN: Does lack of a social media presence harm employment chances?
With a very large number of companies now vetting the social media accounts of their applicants I was wondering how its seen if someone has no social media presence at all? Anecdotally, both as a hirer and hiree, I'd say the answer is no, it's not important. I can't think of a time a social profile has made or broken a hire on my end, and I've been hired despite having a locked IG, a mostly blank linkedin, no FB or snapchat, and a twitter that's mostly me griping unattractively. Grain of salt, though, I'm in a field where a portfolio is required upfront, so that replaces a huge amount of signaling that might have to come from other places. It varies pretty wildly. A friend of my mother applied for a job doing clerical work at the city police station, and one of the conditions of hiring was surrendering her Facebook password. For some reason I'll never understand (she didn't need the job, just wanted something to do during the day), she took the job. This is the worst kind of security requirement, in that it's not only a disgusting abuse of power, it would also be completely useless in stopping someone who really had something to hide. Just like the recent reports of people being required to hand over their phone passcodes to US border control. Having nothing useful to do whole day long term is highly unpleasant and I would argue even unhealthy. She probably needed a job, through not for money. If true, which this probably is, this is absolutely pig disgusting. Local police forces are literally legalized mafias, and they lack pretty much all preventive oversight. Their thirst for tax money and control of the local populace is so evident that one need only google around for cases of murder, cover ups, militarization, steroids.... you name it, local police departments have controversy in spades. That they are now requiring your password to a digitized and synced database of all your contacts, conversations, and photos..... it shows how thirsty they are for allegiance and control, not public safety. > one of the conditions of hiring was surrendering her Facebook password. Is that even legal? How? Why? Sharing the password to a Facebook account against their TOS anyway. https://www.facebook.com/legal/terms Section 4, bullet 8. Might be legal or illegal depending on where you are. But it's awful that it's even a thing. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_8_of_the_European_Conv...
says: =========================================== So basically it's illegal until the authorities deem it to be legal. Yes, I definitely think so. I investigated this for my school newspaper, six or so years ago. Eighty percent of recruiters/hiring managers google you before inviting you in for an interview. (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/susan-p-joyce/job-search-tips_...) Read the story about Pete Kistler: https://brandyourself.com/info/about This can swing both ways. If you deliberately build a professional social presence, blogging about coding, LinkedIn resume, and so on, then it's likely positive, but if you publish drunken photos and post rude twits then it probably will hurt your job chances. I'd consider it a bonus (if they dont have a Facebook, they're probably not wasting much time on it). There are enough people who use social media but hide their friends list, posts, tweets, etc. from all non-friends, so if you're concerned you can set up a profile which you don't use and keep your (non-)activity hidden. I can speak for tech: No it doesn't. What got me jobs: - Good, to the point cover letter (what job are you applying for? why are you interested in it? invitation to view your resume and invitation to get on the phone to explore more). - Good resume - tailored for the job (not super customized, just suitable for the title / responsibilities). - Got a place online they can check out previous work? Huge bonus points. There's still plenty of competition for people who've actually built stuff. And, talking about an interesting project is far more fun than talking about past experiences, especially if it is a recent / current project. - Social Media: I'd say not having a profile is better than having one. I have a blog and no employer has ever looked at it, even though I list the blog on my resume. I walk into interviews and the interviewer often starts off by asking something basic such as "Do you know what object oriented programming is?" My best known essay is "Object Oriented Programming Is An Expensive Disaster Which Must End." The essay was discussed here on Hacker News: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8420060 Anyone who Google's my name will discover this and many other essays. Yet I've never met an interviewer who knew that I wrote these essays. When I started the blog I kept it strictly professional and strictly about technology. But as the years went by, I realized that no employer would ever look at it, so I started posting political things. At first I worried that employers would see this and avoid me because of the politics. But no. I routinely walk into job interviews and the people who talk to me have never looked online for any information about me. Seriously, in the last 10 years I've had 6 jobs and 30 freelance clients. None of them every looked me up before I arrived for the interview. I think, in Tech, it doesn't matter because we tend to be more privacy concise. Some of co-workers have never created any social media and accounts and nothing shows up for them when you search for them. But in other fields it might be different story. My wife is a recruiter for a large hospital. She has told me that while this is not official but usually if an applicant doesn't have social media profile, they usually move to bottom of the list. Most of the recruiters are young there, and they find it weird/suspicious that someone is not easily searchable. My wife's recommendation is to at least, have a profile with picture and hide everything else. However, for senior positions, they don't usually care so much for profiles as most of applicants applying for those positions don't really have any social media profiles. Dear god I hope not. I guess I am sheltered as an engineer? I would say no to anyone so fast if they asked for a Facebook or twitter account, and I never have heard of this. Do you have sources on this being a prevalent practice? Have you been asked? Edit: unless you mean Linkedin or something like github as a social account? unless you mean Linkedin or something like github as a social account? Those count, unfortunately. But I'm skeptical that a "github resume" matters much. LinkedIn seems to matter a lot more strictly for getting offers from recruiters, though. > But I'm skeptical that a "github resume" matters much. It doesn't. I don't know why people on HN think it does, but in real life, most people I've worked with ave empty GitHub accounts. I've had an interviewer suggest to me that I open a Github account, to improve my chances of getting an offer. After the interview was already over and was already rejected. But I already had an active Github account, and nobody ever asked me in the interview if I had one. So I was confused by the suggestion. > LinkedIn seems to matter a lot more strictly for getting offers from recruiters, though. One of the great reasons not to have a LinkedIn account. Those aren't offers any way. They're just shotgunned spam to users with > 10% keyword matches. no, its just a morning brainfart, the most ive had is someone mentioning in an interview that they couldnt find me online. it just struck me as something which may cause an issue, i too have made a point of never having had a social media account in my life, i was just wondering how recruiters and managers etc felt if they did their checks on only to find absolutely nothing I do not have any social presence in popular social networks like facebook, instagram and mainly linkedin by choice. I do have a personal static website though and a github profile. From my experience, the quality of people reaching out to you particularly not from linkedin is very high. I personally had made a decision of rejecting employers who insist on having a linkedin profile. But surprisingly, so far no one has ever asked me about that and all my employers (present and past) were ready to hire me even though I do not have a visible social presence (read linkedin). But, in extreme circumstances when you badly need a job, this thought of having a vibrant social presence haunts you (I have gone through it). But since it is a conscious choice, it is a decision I'm very happy about. I think it does harm you not to have a profile, but only indirectly. Employers will search for you. Having no profile means you're missing out on an opportunity to make an impression before the interview - candidates with posts about things they find interesting in job-related fields, or status updates that make them look like sociable, interesting people, will benefit from that. Having no profile puts you behind those people. Mind you, having a bad profile will get you rejected, so no profile might be better in some people's cases. "Employers will search for you." I said this in a separate comment, but I want to read this here, in response to what you said. In the last 10 years, I've never had an employer search for me online. Never. How would you even know that? I've had several search for me. I know this because they've raised it in interviews, asking things like "The <X> library you tweeted about is interesting. Where would you use that?" Just because they don't tell you that they read your blog posts or searched for your accounts doesn't mean they didn't… My last two employers mentioned searching for me online. Or rather, they brought up the results of the search. Anecdotal evidence: I was at a rugby weekend dads/sons thing. You meet other dads from all walks of life, everything from navy captains to surgeons. One evening, one dude, apropos of nothing whilst banging on about his successful real estate business said that he would not hire someone who did not have a facebook account. I was like 'wat? really?'. This is both scary and interesting. Did you get the chance to discuss it with him further? I wonder how prevalent this sort of thinking is. What's he actually trying to achieve? Presumably in most cases when he searches all he'll see is a name and a thumbnail photo, given that most people these days have at least a little concern about online privacy. Unless he's actually 'friending' all his candidates before he hires them, which would be super weird. Also, doesn't Facebook have a setting where your profile doesn't show up in searches? So he could potentially be rejecting people that actually meet his own (weird) requirement. Or maybe I'm reading too much into what was probably just pub talk! I'm going to start to make a point of discussing tech-related subjects with non-technical friends more often, because their opinions often surprise me. Case in point: Theresa May's quest to ban maths. > I'm going to start to make a point of discussing tech-related subjects with non-technical friends more often, because their opinions often surprise me. And you would be shocked to hear all the misconceptions and myths that the general populace have been fed by the media or picked up from someone at work with Dunning-Kruger effect. It's pointless to try convince them otherwise unless they are your close friends or family. That's because real estate is 99% relationships and networking. It would be different if you were hiring a chemical engineer. I actually understand this POV. From my personal experience, no. None of my jobs have ever asked for it and if they went looking and found nothing, I still got the jobs. Honestly if an employer ever asked me for it, it would be a clear-cut sign that I don't need to work there. It depends on the specific company, but lots of companies require a Linkedin profile to submit an application and some companies go as far as requiring an FB profile. And in cases where social media profiles are optional, applications which provide them are viewed slightly more favourably than applications which don't provide social media links. /anecdata >lots of companies require a Linkedin profile to submit an application and some companies go as far as requiring an FB profile It baffles me that orgs do this despite the insane signal it sends to candidates. You're basically filtering for people who are either 1) so desperate for work that they'll allow their employer to violate their privacy indefinitely 2) playing weird games where they have second versions of themselves set up with fake content (I knew people who did this in college.) > and some companies go as far as requiring an FB profile. I personally heard about a few small companies that wanted the employee applicants to submit their resume through fæcebook. And the biggest facepalm was that those were not "social media marketing firms" (whatever that is), but regular businesses. Dear god, I hope so. If a social media presence (or disclosure of a social media identity) is a condition of employment at some particular (or peculiar) firm, then I think the only recourse is that I should prefer to be a scrivener and that I should prefer not to. Social media or social network? Considering the latter, yes IMHO. You got to be in LinkedIN, at least, because it is what level 1 HR people operate. Absolutely, yes, if I am the one doing the hiring. I want to know that you like technology like I do. I get several job offers from all around the world through Linkedin weekly. Colleagues from the same office who are equally skilled and have a similar experience, but do not have LinkedIn and other networks, get 0. Go figure... How many do you accept every week? first thing first, what do you count as social media, what does you potential employer count as social media?
===================== Article 8 – Right to respect for private and family life
1. Everyone has the right to respect for his private and family life, his home and his correspondence.
2. There shall be no interference by a public authority with the exercise of this right except such as is in accordance with the law and is necessary in a democratic society in the interests of national security, public safety or the economic well-being of the country, for the prevention of disorder or crime, for the protection of health or morals, or for the protection of the rights and freedoms of others.