What one centenarian can teach us about 25 years of Wikipedia

As Wikipedia approaches its 25th birthday, we have another monumental anniversary to celebrate. Ten years ago we wrote about George Pendergast, at the time an editor who had started editing Wikipedia in his 80s. In August George passed the wonderful milestone of being 100 years old, and he continues to contribute to Wikipedia today. Although we collect very little data about Wikipedia editors, our suspicion is that he’s the oldest person to ever edit Wikipedia. (Editor’s note: A 2024 survey of Wikipedia editors found that 0% were 85 or older, much less over 100.)

I was fortunate that George’s grandson Rory reached out to see if I’d like to talk to George (lovingly referred to as G3) ten years on. I took a moment to follow up with George and see how things have changed over the last 10 years – and what his outlook and advice is for future Wikimedians. What follows is an edited and abbreviated interview with George, his son Scott, and his grandson Rory. 

Chris Koerner (Wikimedia Foundation): George, nice to meet you! I appreciate all three of you getting together to have this conversation. I love hearing about how people edit Wikipedia, and this is a great opportunity. George, 10 years ago you were at the young age of 90, and now you’re at 100. What’s changed in the last 10 years? What’s different?

George Pendergast (G3): Well, I’ve gotten older! (George chuckles) It’s been a pleasure to be on Wikipedia for another ten years. I’m active every day. Wikipedia is a learning process. I’m learning about the world from reviewing articles. The thinking is the same, editing Wikipedia is something to look forward to and the work has improved over the years. 

Chris: What are you most proud of from the past decade?

G3: Actually, October will mark my 14th year as an editor, but for the last seven or eight years, I’ve done a lot of article reviews. I like grammar, I like sentence structure and so on. I think I like reviewing, because you get a chance to look at a lot of articles, and you’ll learn something from them. But I like what Wikipedia says; Be clear, concise. and reader friendly. So when I review, I like to think of applying those terms when reviewing and suggesting,

Personally I feel like, in the last 10 years a lot has changed with Wikipedia, and also a lot has stayed the same, like the principles and that the work still exists. I think the work has improved. I think that it’s gained a little more prominence than it once had. If you get on AI, you’ll see they use Wikipedia occasionally as a source. So that’s that’s better, but I think it has improved a great deal, especially on the sourcing. They’ve been very particular about that, and I think that’s helped bring confidence when you read an article. 

You have to remember that, just think it’s all volunteer-led and we all have different skills and a different level of skills. So that accounts for some of it. But I think in reviewing articles I can see that everything has gotten better in the last 10 years, and I think the product shows it.

The one article I did on the USS Mahan 364 – the ship I was on – I was kind of happy to do that! Let me just say that I’m really not a notable person, but have had two notable experiences: one the day on a ship that was sunk by Japanese kamikaze, and the second [that] I’m about to turn 100 years old and I am still in possession of my marbles! So that’s the only thing that makes me different from anyone else I guess. 

Rory Pendergast (George’s grandson): Hey, Grandpa, I know that you’re very interested in AI and how artificial intelligence is referencing Wikipedia articles, but how do you see that AI is influencing Wikipedia, from your end of things?

G3: Well, I use it more to confirm what I think I know, and it really helps me out. I ask a lot of questions. I don’t have AI write anything, but I do ask a lot of questions about a variety of things and one of the good things is that is if I don’t quite agree with it, I’ll have a counter question and say, “Oh, yes, you’re absolutely right”, or “No, you’re wrong”. It really helps confirm and it makes what I do a little better, because it’s not just my own notion about something. 

For example, one of the things that’s not looked at very often in grammar is the difference between “due to” and “because of” and few people know the difference. And so I get into a lot of arguments over that one and use AI to help with my thinking. 

That’s too strong a word, argument. I think it’s more of using AI to refine my work and give it examples to help with. Sometimes running a sentence by the AI to ask if this is good sentence structure and grammatically correct. I only do that when I have trouble reading the sentence myself. But I value it and I enjoy interacting with AI. 

Rory: So here’s one question I have for you, because I have always kind of wondered about the folks that you’re having these discussions with, right? I imagine it’s other editors and other writers for Wikipedia?

G3: It’s actually people that have written the articles that I talk to the most. In particular about the difference between “due to” and “because of”. It’s common for someone to be protective of an article they have worked on. We’re all protective of what we’ve done. I think I know when looking at the articles I’ve written, and when you get criticism sometimes you fight it. I mean, I think that’s kind of human nature. But no, there’s no fights, but just understanding of…

Rory: Valiant discussion.

G3: There you go.

Rory: So then, how old do you think most of these folks are?

G3: My guess is they’re relatively young.

Rory: Well, relative to you, what does that mean? Right? 90 years old, who’s relatively young? 

G3: That’s a big stretch, but I think there’s a lot of young people. You can tell that they know writing, they know grammar, and if you review an article, you know pretty well if someone has the skills to know about what is a good sentence, what isn’t a good sentence, but I think a lot of the people who come into Wikipedia are young people.

I think they’re getting better too. And I think Wikipedia overall is – I’m repeating myself – getting better. Maybe the follow up is better. Maybe the volunteers are better. Maybe they’re younger. And the only reason I got into it was that I had read a senior newspaper one day and the fellow that wrote the article said that Wikipedia needed some older people, and I qualified. So that’s how I really started. 

But I did a lot of writing. I was an auditor and so you do a lot of writing, and when it comes to your findings you think What’s wrong? How do you fix it? So I’ve had a little writing experience, not necessarily articles, but writing reports. 

Rory: I don’t know about this one, so tell me about the newspaper you read that first sparked your interest with Wikipedia. 

G3: The gentleman was, I think, a retired military guy, and they used to kind of go to the universities in Montana and they had an interview with this person – and I don’t remember what periodical or newsletter it was in now – but anyway, that’s how I got into it. An article I read about needing older people to contribute. But I can’t give you any specifics.

So I jumped in. I wrote about the ship I was on in WWII, and I wrote a lot about WAVES, who were in World War II, SPARS, the Cadet Nurse Corps, some of those things.

Chris and Rory at the same time: I was just gonna ask, what kind of sparked your interest with talking about the women’s side of things? With WAVES and with women in the Coast Guard. What was it that kind of got you thinking about writing about women in the war?

G3: I volunteered for the Montana Military Museum at Fort Harrison and some of the displays didn’t have much information on women in WWII. So when I volunteered, they asked me to find articles on the topics of WAVES, SPARS, etc. So I went on Wikipedia and I thought these were great articles to write about. Maybe, I’m sure, a lot of the people were in the WAVES, but now they’re like me. They’re either gone or they’re very old. They might appreciate having an article about them and some of their daughters, sons. So that’s how I started that notion.

Chris: (Looking up the articles G3 mentions and seeing the pageview stats for them) George, I’m looking at both the articles you just mentioned because I haven’t read about these. These are really impressive articles. This is really cool. 

G3: Well, I think women were kind of forgotten, and I think it shows that they contributed as well to the military aspect of it, yeah.

Chris: George, have you ever gone to see how many people have looked at these articles on Wikipedia?

G3: I never do that. Some people have on their homepage how many hits they’ve seen. No, I haven’t.

Chris: Oh, okay. Well, it’s in the thousands. I just want to let you know, like just in the last 90 days alone, the page on WAVES has seen 15,000 views (Editor’s note: At the time this interview took place it was at 15,000 views).

Rory: What!?

G3: Yeah, that was one of my two featured articles. That one and the Mahan-class destroyer article. 

Chris: Love it. That’s great. That’s pretty cool.

G3: Well, I’m lucky to be able to do it, and Wikipedia gives me an opportunity to do it, and I’m grateful for that. It’s a learning process as well.

Rory: I was visiting G3 – he’s in Maui now but used to live near me in San Diego. I think it was around February when we were talking about AI. Since I’m an attorney, it’s becoming part of everything. Chris, he suddenly got up, sat next to me, and said, “Damn, I wish I could live another 20 years just to see where this all goes.” I thought that was really impressive. So I asked him, what is it exactly that you hope to see? Or is it just the curiosity of not knowing where it’s headed?

G3: Well, just think what technology has done to this point. Imagine what it’ll be in 20 years, and I’d get to see your three daughters grow up.

Rory: Yeah, yeah. Yes, that too, that too you would. But is there anything so, I mean, so when you started, could you see the difference between when you first had heard about AI – or possibly what it could do, and then what you’re doing daily?

G3: The first thing is that I had some misconceptions – probably like many others. I didn’t have a lot of practical thoughts about it at first, but once I started using it, I could see what a huge advantage it is. The problem is; where does the information come from? You’re always stuck with the source, I suppose. But the good thing is, you can question the machine, and it might say, “You’re absolutely right” – which is kind of the fun part. Then it’ll give you a different take and if you don’t like that one, you can just ask again. So the source – the origin of the information – that’s really the most important thing with AI, don’t you think?

Wikipedia, for example, has really improved sourcing. They’ve always checked sources, but now they’re even better. That’s where credibility comes in. When I make a change on an article other editors want to know why. And so you need a source so that they’re more able to accept whatever you’re saying.

Chris: George, when you think about the work you’ve done as a volunteer, do you ever think about what sort of advice would you give to somebody on why they should edit? Why should they spend their time contributing? You know, people can spend their time doing 1000 different things, right? Why should people spend their time doing this?

G3: Well, I think everyone has their own reason to begin with. I think that it’s doing something for the order, something larger than yourself. You don’t get nobody patting you on the back or anything. But you know that if you improve one article that makes the reading pleasure of other people much better. Wikipedia itself is, you know, as it’s hard to explain how somebody would have this idea, where people can get information this way. 

I think AI now is almost a Johnny-come-lately, when you think about it, Wikipedia had the idea a long time ago. But anyway, I think people like to write, like to express themselves, and I think everyone has a different view on why they do it, but mine is I think it’s for the good of the order and that hopefully you’re doing something good that will have a lasting effect on the world.

Chris: I’m going to ask you a fun question. If Wikipedia gave out merit badges, what merit badge would you be awarded?

G3: I’m sure that everyone likes some reward for the work they do. I think that’s human nature, but I think a thank you is still the best one. If that answers your question. 

Chris: It does. That’s perfect. Thank you, George. That’s very humble of you to say. I personally feel that’s another attribute of Wikimedians. That many of them are definitely selfless in doing this work. 

G3: When you think of the millions of people that are involved in it, it’s, yeah, it’s utterly amazing. Yes, I’m glad I had a chance to do it. Just don’t get me in trouble with my peers (George chuckles).

Rory: Hey, Grandpa, here’s a question for you. If you could somehow go back to the 1920s or 1930s and explain to your grandparents and your parents what you’re doing right now, how do you think they would have responded?

G3: Lock him up! No, nobody would have believed it. You know, in my day, the radio was a big thing. I remember when we got our first radio and so I don’t think any of us ever could have envisioned some of the things that are happening today. Even indoor plumbing was a big deal. There were still a lot of people using pumps for water. I don’t think the first scheduled airline wasn’t until 1935! So life has really changed in my lifetime, a great deal…especially indoor plumbing.

Rory: But let me ask, do you think that they were interested in writing and reading and in kind of the path that you’ve gone down?

G3: No, I think people were more interested in a livelihood, a steady job. And that was in the 30s. That was the most important thing, a steady job. So people weren’t thinking about mobile homes and boats. They were thinking about how the hell do I make a living! And where I came from it was a steady job, because usually in the winters there was no work. So that was the big deal, steady work. It seems strange today, but that was it according to my recollection anyway.

Chris: So George, if you don’t mind me asking, I know from the previous article 10 years ago a little bit about your time in the military, but there’s a big gap between that and when you started getting involved in Wikipedia. Tell me more about what happened in the middle there. Obviously, you have a family, and you were an auditor of some sort. Can you shine a little more light on that, as much as you’re comfortable with sharing? 

G3: Yes, I had my wife, and I had five children, and I spent 30 years as an auditor for the state of Montana. We audited banks, government agencies, and the like.

Chris: And that’s where you got your passion for writing and editing?

G3: You do a lot of writing, and you discover a variety of things as an auditor and you have to tell people how to cure the problem. So writing has been a little part of my life’s work. 

Chris: What is something you’ve learned on Wikipedia that surprised you? 

G3: The one thing, I think, that surprised me the most is how the number of articles has increased over time. Since I started, in the last 14 years, how many additional articles have been added? And the fact that they’re in so many languages is something that’s, I think, quite amazing. (Editor’s note: Since 2011, English Wikipedia has seen approximately 3.2 million articles added, and it now has over 7 million articles. Since George started editing 58 new language-specific Wikipedias have been created.)

Rory (to Chris): What does Wikimedia think about AI? 

Chris: This is a really good question. Here at the Foundation, we believe that AI should support the work of humans, not replace them. The care and commitment of Wikipedia volunteers to share reliable encyclopedic knowledge is something AI cannot replace. So, humans will always remain at the center of all our projects. Volunteers decide what content stays on Wikipedia and the policies around it, including how they want to use AI within their own communities based on consensus. We work to ensure there is space for volunteers like George to do the work the way they want to do it, and to make that experience easier through technology. 

For us, knowledge is human. Wikipedia is human, right? It’s made by humans. It’s for humans. And we want it to stay that way! That’s very unique, and I think it’s why it’s had such longevity. Wikipedia will be celebrating its 25th birthday in January of next year, and that’s pretty amazing for anything to exist for 25 years, much less an online volunteer-led community, right? That’s amazing.

G3: This boggles the mind!

Chris: The joke we like to say is that Wikipedia doesn’t work in theory, but it does in practice.

G3: I remember Jimmy Wales was interviewed by somebody, I forgot who. I’m sure you do a lot of thinking about it. 

Chris: Oh, definitely. We’re trying to figure out how do we use it as a tool to help the volunteers – to make their work easier or faster or more reliable or more translatable. Whatever those things are, like flagging articles that need more citations and finding potential vandalism, which we’ve been doing with our own tools for a very long time. We’re trying to figure out how machine learning helps with all that.

G3: I’m glad to hear that. It is helpful for me. As long as you can trust what it is saying, so to speak, but that’s always the question isn’t it yeah?

If things get better, and I’m sure you’ll agree that Wikipedia is much better than it was 25 years ago or 20 years ago. So I think maybe AI will help it do that, yeah? 

Well, Rory, you can send me a letter when…

Rory: Yeah I’ll send a letter to you, yeah. I’ll bury a phone with you and send you an email.

G3: Good idea! With a long lasting battery, though.

Rory: Yeah, I’ll just put it in, see if we can have your pacemaker receive text messages.

G3: There, there you go. There you go. Well, thanks for your time.

Chris: Thank you, George, appreciate it.

Rory (to G3): Did you have any other questions or anything else you wanted to say?

G3: No, whatever I’ve said, it’s been in reluctance, because every time you open your mouth, you always get in trouble.

Rory: Nonsense!

G3: My father said you can’t learn anything when you’re talking.

Rory: (laughing) Well, maybe now the point of talking to you isn’t you learning?

G3: Well, we’ll see, won’t we?

Rory: Well, you know, I do have one sort of little thing. What thoughts can you give to anyone else who might be in your position like you were 14 years ago, reading some article that says, “Hey, the only way this thing moves forward is if you participate”? 

G3: Well, you know the real problem is, I’m one of the very lucky people. I’m still in possession of my marbles. I’m ambulatory, and a lot of people, even in their early 80s, are not. So it’s hard to do what you’re talking about. In my view, for the select few that are motivated to do something like that or have the inclination to do so – if you’re like to learn and contribute a little bit – Wikipedia would be a great place to do it. 

Rory: I love it. All right, okay, anything else for us Grandpa?

G3: When’s lunch!?