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CockroachDB: A Scalable, Geo-Replicated, Transactional Datastore

github.com

77 points by sokrates 12 years ago · 56 comments

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jacquesm 12 years ago

That's a funny name for a database. At least you'll know that whoever uses it does not use it for its buzzword value.

How will this handle partitioning of the network? The readme has a lot of info about bits of the far-flung cluster failing but nothing about how it would deal with the whole cluster being chopped up into roughly equal halves. That's one of the harder problems to deal with for solutions aimed at this space.

warfangle 12 years ago

Riak, when you use LevelDB behind it, certainly has indexes. As many as you want (within reason), through secondary indexes[0]. While it doesn't have joins specifically, you can link data blobs and walk the links[1]. For when that isn't quite enough, you can always perform a compiled erlang map reduce across a given dataset[2].

I don't quite see how CockroachDB offers anything Riak doesn't.

Riak, while not offering true locking transactions (it doesn't look like CockroachDB does either - imagine how long it would take to perform a locked transaction across sixteen data centers in as many countries, two of which have gone dark due to power outages and giant robots), offers you the option of resolving data version conflicts when you read the record[3]. (ed. Many times if doing a partial update of a record, you need to read before writing anyway. This resolves a conflict before you write to a potentially conflicted record chain. Typically this is done with a pre-commit hook. [4])

(ed.: The major differences seem to stem from the snapshotting system CDB uses to provide external consistency across data centers. This comes at a (potentially huge, especially if two clusters lose connection with each other but not with clients) delay in write verification.

Riak, on the other hand, would still allow writes - and would resolve any conflicts when the datacenters connect again. It's a hairy problem to fix, especially in a general manner.

It all depends on what kind of data you're storing.)

0. http://docs.basho.com/riak/latest/dev/using/2i/

1. http://docs.basho.com/riak/latest/dev/using/link-walking/

2. http://docs.basho.com/riak/latest/dev/using/mapreduce/

3. http://docs.basho.com/riak/latest/theory/concepts/Vector-Clo...

4. http://docs.basho.com/riak/latest/dev/using/commit-hooks/

  • hendzen 12 years ago

    Simple, CockroachDB is a CP system, while Riak is an AP system.

    If you need multi-key ACID transactions, and can tolerate potential downtime in the event that some partition loses a majority of its Raft replicas, you might want to use CockroachDB.

    If high availability is a concern, and you can tolerate the occasional data conflict in the case of incomparable vector clocks due to writes accepted during a network partition, or, if your schema can be modeled with CRDTs (LWW register, PN counter, Union-Set, etc), you might want to use Riak.

  • itsnotvalid 12 years ago

    Multi Data Center Replication doesn't come in the free-lunch-pack. To get that with Riak, you probably need to downpay $6000 for getting that license for a node. So if you have two geolocations for your data, it would be at least $12000 for a minimal setup.

    Of course for people looking at the usage for this, money is not the major issue.

  • rdtsc 12 years ago

    What is your comment on the "No availability or weak consistency with datacenter failure" part?

    Is that referring to Riak's cross data center replication (enterprise feature). I guess for regular case (non-enterprise version) it is true, as it is not possible to specifically assign ring sections to data centers?

  • maaku 12 years ago

    Fully ACID transactions is a big deal.

    • dgrnbrg 12 years ago

      They're based on Raft--that's not a consensus protocol that's designed for multi-datacenter operations. I suspect you'll have reliability and throughput issues fairly quickly, just as you see with multi-datacenter zookeeper.

      The solution Google uses for this kind of problem: multidatacenter transactions are rare, so they're not optimized for latency (instead for reliability), and they tend to use 2PC, as it's easier to get right with unpredictable WAN latencies.

    • rch 12 years ago

      Riak will have strongly consistent buckets in 2.0+, which pretty much takes care of the cases in which I'd need guarantees for data in this storage model.

      • maaku 12 years ago

        Consistency of single updates is vastly different than multi-write atomic transactions. The former precludes, for example, financial applications which require atomic updates of multiple balances.

        • rch 12 years ago

          Clearly, but I would just be using Riak to store the single command that indicates an update of multiple balances should be scheduled. Given sound guarantees at that level, I'll be able to implement the transaction myself in any number of ways, inclusive of interop with external services.

          • stuki 12 years ago

            And if two commands get stored in quick succession, such that the first results in a state that renders the second impossible? Particularly if some of the balance updates in the first command, are contingent on others ( credit line backing checking account updated if deposit balance < 0, for example )?

            Financial transactions are pretty much the poster child for atomic, multi update transactions and pessimistic locking.

            • syntern 12 years ago

              You can always save the fact that a transaction was started, read the account's state (including the most recent transactions as an ordered list), calculate the validity of the item, and update the success/failure accordingly.

              It is not the transaction itself that is hard, it is the network partition. E.g. what happens if two network partition approve transactions, that wouldn't have been accepted if there were no partitions.

            • rch 12 years ago

              I've probably gotten off base here by wanting to perform arbitrary actions against services I may or may not control in the course of satisfying a command, and worrying too much about made up corner cases.

              If this DB is the sole record of The Money, and I can move some quantity from X to Y in a transaction, then that's fine by me.

limsup 12 years ago

I assume it's called this because a cockroach can supposedly survive a nuclear attack. But it's a bad name. It does not invoke good feelings.

orasis 12 years ago

Change the name. I get the joke, but it has an emotionally negative connotation that bosses will hate.

dang 12 years ago

Given that most of the comments are merely about the name, and that the author has implied that the software doesn't work [1], it seems there's little to discuss here. We're going to demote this submission [2].

1. https://twitter.com/andybons/status/472458545154494465. The answer to that question, btw, is yes. Reposts of stories that have had significant attention are treated as dupes for about a year.

2. That's not a criticism of the submitter. We want to see original work on HN. But there ought to be some substance to it, as well as to the resulting discussion.

rb2k_ 12 years ago

How would one communicate with this DB?

I'd love to see some API examples.

candybar 12 years ago

As for the name, which I agree is problematic as is, how about EntomoDB for entomos (insect)?

Edit: It's not problematic if success is not an objective. But if it is, choosing a name with such strong established negative connotations is not wise.

  • maaku 12 years ago

    How is the name problematic? I knew exactly what they were saying and why when I saw it. If it were me I would have shortened it to RoachDB, but that's just marketing.

    • enraged_camel 12 years ago

      >>How is the name problematic?

      Most people are disgusted by cockroaches. I think that's a good enough reason to change the name, at least if you want the product to be taken seriously.

      • mahkoh 12 years ago

        Friendly reminder that "Mongo" is a very offensive word in German. A "Mongo" is a person suffering from Down syndrome. CockroachDB is a walk in the park compared to MongoDB.

    • iLoch 12 years ago

      I agree it would probably be a good idea to chop off the cock.

nawitus 12 years ago

How does it handle replication and the resulting conflicts?

  • teraflop 12 years ago

    It uses strongly consistent replication, so there are no conflicts.

    • nawitus 12 years ago

      So it doesn't support "proper" replication, e.g. the kind where the databases are not connected 100% the time perfectly? And I wonder how they can prevent conflicts due to latency.. Even if there's a 50ms latency, is the other database going to wait for 50ms between every write or something?

      • teraflop 12 years ago

        Well, that's a matter of terminology. It uses quorum replication, so it can make progress as long as a majority of replicas are online and communicating. I would consider that "proper" replication in the sense of a replicated state machine.

        You're right that it's different from, say, master/slave replication in an SQL database. There's no distinction between an authoritative master and a slave that provides stale data. Each machine either gives you consistent reads and writes, or is unavailable.

        As far as latency goes, the gory details are in the design document. You need to talk to at least N/2 other replicas; there's no way around that without giving up consistency. But that doesn't mean you can only do one transaction every 50ms; they can be pipelined, and non-conflicting transactions can proceed simultaneously.

        • nawitus 12 years ago

          Okay, so there will be conflicts, which brings us back to the original question.

          >I would consider that "proper" replication in the sense of a replicated state machine.

          When I think about proper replication, I'm thinking about master-master replication which doesn't fail if the connection between peers is sometimes down, even for very long periods (e.g. what CouchDB can handle). I'm of course not saying that other kinds of replications are somehow inherently bad, but multi-master replication without active connections is what I'm after and what a lot of modern applications can benefit from.

          Once you have two databases that are not connected all the time you need to handle conflicts. You can move the conflict handling totally to the client side, but the conflict handling must be implemented somewhere. I think that's such a common use-case that the database should provide basic interfaces and implementation for it. If nothing else, it reduces boilerplate code by large amounts. Of course no database can handle conflict handling fully, as some of it always depends on the business domain.

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