Namecheap now officially accepts Bitcoin
namecheap.comWell, I just tried to transfer one of my domains to Namecheap using Bitcoin, but their implementation leaves a lot to be desired.
I filled in my domain, got to the checkout page, and it gave me three options: Pay from 'Funds', 'Credit Card', or 'Paypal'. Turns out in order to pay with Bitcoin, you have to first add 'Funds' to your account. So I click the link to do that, it asks me how much I want to add (I don't know, aren't you supposed to tell me how much I owe?). Anyway, I follow a few pages and finally end up on BitPay's page where it asks me to send a specific number of Bitcoins to their address, so I do. The page recognizes immediately when I have sent the funds, and redirects me back to Namecheap.
Great, now I can find my way back to the checkout page and finally finish the transfer! Except I can't. Despite having sent the funds, they won't show up in my account for another hour (or possibly up to 24 hours). I understand they want to prevent double spend attacks, but this is absurd. We're talking about a $10 domain that they can just revoke if the payment doesn't clear. They have to wait 45+ days for paypal/credit cards to clear, but they give the product to me immediately, and I don't have to go through their ridiculous fund adding process to do so.
I applaud the effort Namecheap and I'm happy to see Bitcoin becoming more useful, but this needs work.
NameCheap actually doesn't have the capacity to revoke domains as they're an eNom reseller. Enom's policy is that once you buy a domain, it's yours. With domains sales being such a low margin business I can understand their level of caution.
I had no idea they were a reseller. It's all the more interesting when you look at eNom's reseller pricing page http://www.enom.com/resellers/benefits-pricingplans.aspx. I hope NameCheap is getting better bulk rates than what is listed.
That's interesting, I didn't realize that. But don't they still have to deal with PayPal/credit card charge backs? Do they think those will be more rare that Bitcoin double spends?
Many people (like myself) keep a fair sized balance on namecheap to make checkouts faster for credit cards in general, so this won't be a problem for everybody.
Same case here, but I was trying to pay with Google Wallet, and I only had to wait for around 20 minutes.
Their interface really needs a make over though. It's like they are trying to win a "Show As Much Information As Possible in A Single Screen contest".
"They have to wait 45+ days for paypal/credit cards to clear"
This is not a thing. There's no concept of 'clearing' when it comes to credit cards; they are authorized for a specific dollar amount or they aren't. If a merchant authorizes $10 for a domain name, it's guaranteed that those funds are theirs (and they're given an authorization code confirming it). They more than likely get the funds in their bank account the very next business day.
The only way the money can be taken back from the merchant is if the consumer does a chargeback with their bank, so the only concern there is fraud.
Maybe 'clear' was the wrong term, but I was referring to chargebacks. Their only concern with Bitcoin is also fraud, since that's what double spends are too.
Also, I happen to be a previous Namecheap customer with a credit card attached to my account. If the Bitcoin payment had failed, they could have just charged my account/credit card to avoid their loss (possibly with some extra legal annoyances, but I don't think there is anything fundamentally wrong with that).
It sounds like that was something with the API for BitPay, perhaps NameCheap will skip the wait in the future and revoke if necessary but the thing that worries me is that maybe the BitPay API doesn't support notifying on pending funds instead of secured funds.
I looked at the BitPay API page (https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-payment-gateway-api) and couldn't tell for sure one way or the other. If it really doesn't, they may want to switch to Coinbase (a YC company that offers a similar service) which I know sends notifications immediately (and status updates as confirmations come in).
However, even with that fixed, it's still an issue that Bitcoin was not an option on the checkout page. I had to navigate somewhere else, then go through the checkout process again just to get back to where I was. I shouldn't have to stop what I'm doing and go through a completely different flow to pay for something.
>Despite having sent the funds, they won't show up in my account for another hour
... and after one hour transactions are marked as "invalid" and you are forced to fill ticket to tech support (which is nonworking either)
I'm loving this Bitcoin ramp up over the past few weeks. Namecheap should be applauded for their general endorsement of "what's good for the internet". Of course it's in their best interest, but you don't see GoDaddy doing the same.
I think back to the "So, that's the end of Bitcoin"[1] article by Forbes and chuckle to myself. Hopefully one day we can look back at that article in the same way we look back at Ballmer laughing at the iPhone [2]
[1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2011/06/20/so-thats-...
Second that on Namecheap apparently being on the side of the internet. Weren't they a vocal opponent of SOPA?
Chiming in here to say that I moved all my domains from GoDaddy to Namecheap, too. Fantastic service so far.
Yes they were. Made me move all my domains to namecheap.
As far as I remember, they gave a discount to people moving from godaddy and even provided a tool to assist them move. Of course it was in their best interest.
Ok. So accepting bitcoin, but they still won't have things like two-factor auth available for "several months" (reference: https://community.namecheap.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=10...).
I realize PR departments are probably flailing wildly over $33 bitcoins, but which feature do you think your users are more likely to use?
minor correction to a valid post: as of 06:33 UTC, bitcoin goes for 37.9 USD
And now its $39. Its volatility makes it impractical to use as a currency. A bitcoin yesterday is worth 10% less than a bitcoin today.
Today's bitcoin is a little more liquid than yesterday's, and the trend will continue as long as more and more people start accepting bitcoin as payment. This liquidity has a positive effect on value.
I would assume that one of the major reasons in holding bit coin is still to sell it at some point (until a large amount of people accept it)
Meaning that once it hits a certain level people will start cashing in and crash the price again?
> Meaning that once it hits a certain level people will start cashing in and crash the price again?
Only if they all sell at the same time. I don't see why that would happen. Selling ones bitcoins isn't an event you coordinate with other holders of bitcoins. It will happen gradually, and have a dampening effect on the price. In all likelihood it's happening right now. There was a huge ask wall at $40. Seems like a lot of people wanted to take profit at that price.
This is also why a crash doesn't happen. If everyone decided right now they've made enough money and wanted to sell their coins, the price would start dropping, until it reaches a point where people are no longer satisfied with the price, and they will stop selling. At which point some buyers will be satisfied with the price drop, and get into bitcoin again, thus raising the price, and the cycle continues.
It's really fascinating to watch the sum total of the actions of all the sellers and buyers, and how it unfolds as an ever-changing price and order book.
No, cause it's best to just hold onto it until a large amount accept it. That's when you'll get the most value for it.
Though a crash is possible, not all sell-offs create crashes. Price can drop 10%-20% and still not be a crash.
However, with the recent movements, I wouldn't be surprised if BQ swings dozens of percentage points in the next few weeks.
Ok sure, don't use it for your mortgage yet, but have some nerdy fun with it and buy a domain name.
Neat, but will they turn a blind eye to domains registered with false information? After all, the biggest advantage of Bitcoin over traditional digital payment methods is its capability to be used anonymously.
> Neat, but will they turn a blind eye to domains registered with false information?
I imagine in the future internet, domain registrations will be just as anonymous (like .onion on tor) as bitcoin, no reason domain names can't be decentralized (different tld's of course).
Probably you know, but there is an alternative blockchain called namecoin for DNS. http://dot-bit.org/Main_Page
i would love a method to be able to anonymously host websites that is un-take-down-able and untracable. It would mean that contriversial stuff can be put there without fear of repercussion, and thus, more democratic.
Tor hidden service? [1]
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)#Hidden_...
Providing falsified WHOIS information will only harm the registrant.
It's cheap to register a domain. Fake WHOIS information may mean that you have a possibility of losing the domain, but if you're doing something sketchy, or just politically unpopular to people who matter, there isn't a paper trail.
Really, a debit card card purchased with cash would probably work just as well, but there are imaginable situations where the risk of losing the domain is less of a problem than being identified as the registrant.
How?
I keep valid contact information in the WHOIS records for my domains, and all I get out of it is e-mail spam from my registrar, e-mail spam from everyone else, snail mail spam from my registrar, snail mail spam from competing registrars (Domain Registry of America, anyone?), "SELL YOUR DOMAIN TO US!" robocall spam, and yearly ICANN WDRP e-mails from my registrar.
Because, according to ICANN rules - you may lose the right to your domain if the registrant information is falsified.
That's why they "spam" you once a year, reminding you to keep the registrant information up to date.
I have not heard of anyone losing their generic TLD in a random check, but the risk always exist.
You need an anonymized WHOIS service. Namecheap offers free anonymized WHOIS by default on their domains ... its called "WhoisGuard Protection". Its a must have these days.
Yes, I want to be anonymous so I'll sign legal control of my domain over to a third party service (per their terms and conditions - http://www.whoisguard.com/registrant-agreement.asp):
• who you have to "provide […] truthful, complete, current, accurate and reliable contact details" to,
• who "has the right to disclose your identity and your other Personal Information" and
• who "may resolve any and all third party claims, whether threatened or made, arising out of your registration or use of the Domain"
Now for a lot of people who just don't want their name easily visible, that's fine because it's unlikely these terms will be acted on. But for anyone who actually needs anonymity, to protect their right to free speech (for example), that's not good enough.
If you're looking to actually protect your anonymity when registering a domain, you ought to do so with your own privacy protecting corporation. Delaware corporations (any many offshore corporations) can be legally registered anonymously, which will keep your information off the whois information, without relying on a shaky 3rd party agreement.
> Namecheap offers free anonymized WHOIS by default on their domains ... its called "WhoisGuard Protection".
Free for just the first year after transferring/registering a domain, after that it costs you.
I'm honestly not sure, but I was under the impression that bitcoin wasn't really anonymous. All transactions are publicly logged to prevent double spend, so you can trace a coin from the first time it was used. If you happen to know that an address maps to a specific someone, you can begin to create a pretty identifiable picture.
I thought this too, but after looking into it I understood how it could be used anonymously: http://www.jefftk.com/news/2013-01-28
The biggest advantage of Bitcoin is being able to transfer funds globally without an intermidiary. Think of it as a payment method rather than a currency for the time being and you'll be better served.
Well the thing is they offer web & vps hosting as well.
I really don't see how they can do that anonymously and still function. They will be constantly fighting scammers and spammers.
The price of Bitcoin is currently hovering around 37 USD. I remember when Bitcoin was $2.00 after the first crash, I never expected it to rebound so quickly. Announcements such as Namecheap's lend credence to the current price, but I would not be surprised if a correction brought Bitcoin below $30.
Regardless, I am excited that there are more places to spend Bitcoin each and every day.
Well I don't think any average person is really keeping large amounts of money in bitcoin.
It has mostly a transactional since the use cases are so niche.
>use cases are so niche
This is a first-world misperception. There is half a world excluded from traditional payment methods.
Is Bitcoin a realistic option for those people?
Maybe for low-fee international money orders. Certainly not for everyday transactions away from the internet.
Not yet. Five years I'd guess.
That's actually not true. One of the reasons price is high is because people right now are hoarding.
The reward for block discovery also halved quite recently from 50 bitcoins to 25 bitcoins.
A domain registrar is going to have a fairly technically literate customer base, but bitcoin is edging towards the mainstream faster than I'd expected.
The Coupa Café of Palo Alto is going to support paying with bitcoin soon. Yesterday I bought coffee for $2.00, with the option of paying .17 bitcoin.
Do you know what technology they're using? How long do they make you wait for confirmation, etc.
I asked, but the people there didn't know much at all about it yet.
Looks like they're using BitPay https://bitpay.com
edit: I just tried it. The workflow works well, but this brings me back to my biggest reservation about the usability of BitCoin for regular transactions: The long period (hours) to confirm a transaction.
Hours to settle into $? Or hours to confirm the Bitcoin transaction at all?
To confirm the Bitcoin transaction at all. That's just how Bitcoin works - you have to wait for X new blocks to get confirmations from other peers. How long you wait determines your risk level.
It doesn't require hours at the protocol level, it's just a social standard. Typically, the first confirmation would occur in ~10 minutes. At the moment, the convention is 6 blocks / 1 hour is sufficient to prevent double-spending, but any merchant could have its own standard.
Also, for something revocable like a domain name, there's nothing preventing Namecheap from giving you the domain name immediately, and then revoking your access to it later if the transaction ultimately fails.
> Also, for something revocable like a domain name, there's nothing preventing Namecheap from giving you the domain name immediately, and then revoking your access to it later if the transaction ultimately fails.
Not according to shiftpgdn:
> NameCheap actually doesn't have the capacity to revoke domains as they're an eNom reseller. Enom's policy is that once you buy a domain, it's yours. With domains sales being such a low margin business I can understand their level of caution.
Thanks for clarifying it.
I suppose that's kinda bad for drop catching, but regular domains take 24 hours to be useful anyways. So its not that bad :)
> regular domains take 24 hours to be useful anyways
It only takes about 10 minutes for a new registration to go live with most registrars. If you set your DNS servers during the purchase and have the zones ready from the get-go, your domain is resolving on the web immediately.
that's accurate. we pride ourselves in getting most of our domains online and functional in about 30 seconds -- as long as you don't visit the domain within those first 30 seconds and get your ISP to cache the "does not exist" record.
s/on the web/on the Internet/
twitch :-)
Also, as Bitcoin matures, you'll see businesses pop up that will insure against the risk for a small portion of the transaction allowing near instant confirmation for merchants.
BUT BUT BUT BUT .... no transaction fees!
I love that over time people start coming up with solutions to the same damn problems that other payment schemes have already come up with, and that last week they were saying were evil because someone else was doing it.
It's not unique to bitcoin, you see it in all sorts of places, it is funny though.
The difference is competition. Nothing fancy, nothing new and shiny. Just something that has been proven to work time and time again in lowering prices.
The barrier to entry in the payment card industry is simply too high to allow much competition. Entering the business of bitcoin payment processing has an extremely low barrier to entry; all the hard stuff has been done already!
Bitcoin is first and foremost a currency, not a payment scheme. You can use it like cash with no (or minimal) fees, or you can layer schemes with various properties on top of it.
Right, cool, awesome.
But when people then layer payment schemes and payment-scheme type-assurances, services and (of course) fees on top of it, is it wrong to make this comparison?
Because at the moment you see a lot of people touting the 'no fees' part as the reason it wins over credit/debit cards, but when the weaknesses of that are pointed out someone like yourself inevitably pops up to tell us that of course it's not meant for that, but payment systems can be layered over the top, with a fee structure. Or it's silly to expect that because it's just like cash, when the expectation is in response to a BTC advocates claim that it's the best thing evar for the problem domain.
Basically it can't be both ways and I am kinda tired of the constant claims that it is.
I seems the overall useage and popularity of bitcoins has gone down though. I haven't had a single purchase with bitcoins in about a year at Flow and Zone Games ( http://flowandzonegames.com ) and that's quite a change from the one-a-week clip before.
I don't understand the currency so maybe I'm overpricing.
Welcome to deflation.
Now Amazon needs to start accepting Bitcoins for EC2 instances and the world will be on its way past the Visa/Mastercard duopoly.
Yeah.. and looking at what happened with Wikileaks... I'm sure Amazon's got your back, and won't just cut your service off.
Well since we are living in a fantasy land why not McDondalds, Ferrari, Apple and Starbucks as well.
I much prefer it if they all just gave stuff away for free.
I think in five years, the idea of using credit or debit cards for electronic transactions will seem slightly ridiculous, sort of the way using snail mail to pay bills by check seems now.
I think most people will still love the idea, because of a little thing called payment protection.
No chargeback possibility? No sale from me.
Not every online transaction requires a chargeback. Perhaps donating to your favourite artist, author, charity would be easier in Bitcoin. And would mean you don't have to keep careful track of your spending to avoid huge interest rates from the card company.
Your logic is completely faulty.
Paying bills over the internet was easier and simpler than paying by check. Paying by credit and debit cards are easier, safer and simpler than using say Bitcoin.
There is zero chance that those cards are going anywhere. If anything the popularity of PayWave and other NFC technologies should see their use increase.
Except its now legal for merchants to tack on a surcharge for you paying with credit (as it should be).
Online merchants will absorb the cost of processing credit cards, as they aren't going to wait for a check in the mail. But physical merchants that can accept cash and are now allowed to recoup that 3%? I can see certain groups of people migrating away from plastic if it increases the cost of their goods/services in a meaningful way.
Adjusting for a 1% cash back that's only 2% surcharge for the ability to dispute charges, pay at the end of the month. VS: Risking a Bitcoin wallet will zero recourse if something goes wrong and an unstable currency.
The way I see it Bitcoins are not stable / safe enough for large transactions and the transaction fees on small transactions are effectively meaningless.
If I have a problem with an online purchase that I can't sort out with the merchant, my bank is more than happy to compensate me for it.
Not possible with Bitcoin.
Escrow services do exist for Bitcoin.
I assume they are not operating out of the goodness of their own hearts?
(they'd be pretty useless if they did, anyway- where would my refund money come from?)
> where would my refund money come from?
Almost sounds like you're confusing escrow with insurance?
Your refund would come from the middle guy entrusted to securing your funds until your goods were delivered as promised. If your goods are not delivered, or if what you ordered was nothing like what was promised, the escrow service would simply send your bitcoins back to you, instead of sending them to the merchant who tried to defraud you.
These services would likely charge a transaction fee for the service.
Even silk road offers an escrow service that is apparently effective enough. The scammers on silk road typically try to con you into closing the transaction before delivery of any goods, so one red flag that you may be looking at a scammer is a number of early settled transactions in their history.
If someone wanted to do something like this more mainstream, they could develop a third party bitcoin escrow service that offered an order history, rating or feedback system, and transaction comments from both parties. You could even develop a rating score formula similar to a credit score, where older accounts with more history, have higher scores, which make it much harder for scammers to use throw away accounts.
I happily trade off the security of banks for the freedom of Bitcoin. It's an easy trade. I can watch out for myself.
A lot of places that accept Bitcoins use BitPay and get paid in US dollars. BitPay charge a 3% fee for this service. (You can accept Bitcoins and exchange them yourself but then you take on the exchange-rate risk, which is quite substantial given how much the Bitcoin exchange rate varies.)
Please provide a source for this claim.
BitPay's site says an incoming bitcoin transfer to bank deposit costs 1.70% for USD on their "Pricing" page: https://bitpay.com/bitcoin-direct-deposit
And this will only decrease as competition increases.
They must've changed it at some point and I only found outdated information, sorry. As wmf points out the total fees are actually 2.69% once you take into account the 0.99% fee for the payment gateway part.
BitPay charges a fee to accept BTC and another fee to convert to USD; these add up to 2.69%. If the customer pays Coinbase 1% to convert USD to BTC then total fees are nearly 4%.
you're assuming that merchants won't just keep the 1% difference.
> if it increases the cost of their goods/services in a meaningful way.
You do realise that credit cards aren't some new invention ?
The merchant costs have been factored into people's purchases for decades and there is no evidence it has caused any impact on sales. If anything the huge array of reward programs and partnerships e.g. with airlines has reinvigorated the huge of credit cards.
I just don't see anyone migrating away from credit/debit cards apart from fringe elements of society. Seems like proponents of Bitcoin live in their own world sometimes and treat the existing financial system as some competitor.
It's a great step towards domain anonymity, but at the end of the day Namecheap is a company in the USA that needs to comply with USA law and its enforcers. And we know it's not the most privacy-friendly country in the world.
To be fair, registering a .com domain is a bad idea if you want to stay anonymous. Go for a .is, a .ch or even a .eu.
>It's a great step towards domain anonymity
It`s not about anonymity. All other payment systems just suck.
This is crazy: MtGox is 37 USD/BTC today, up from 20 USD/BTC a month ago.
Bubble 2.0?
Interesting if anyone had conducted an experiment, whether new Bitcoin button, near old good CC payment, actually worsens whole conversion rate, due to interesting Bitcoin reputation in masses.
This is beautiful to watch unfold: The universe is taking flight! Do help it, not for the sake of a cryptocurrency, but for the ethical implications. For you and for me.
Why ask useless questions? How deep is the ocean? How high is the sky? Who is Satoshi Nakamoto?
Deepest part of the ocean. 10924 meters http://geology.com/records/deepest-part-of-the-ocean.shtml
Radius from earth to the edge of the visible universe: 46.5 billion light years, http://geology.com/records/deepest-part-of-the-ocean.shtml
Satoshi Nakamoto: a human being or beings
I know what you are trying to say, "why ask unanswerable questions", but all questions have answers.
Galt he isn't - "The universe believes in Encryption" (J.Assange) and this fact is at the same time the redeeming and redemption of the system we're watching suffer. Key point though - we're not relying on Nietzchieans supermen championing themselves or their genius. We're championing the universe, and empowering everyone. Freedom.
Atlas? :)
> Who is Satoshi Nakamoto?
Amir Taaki
Hey all! I'm trying to build a domain registrar we'd actually love to use. Does bitcoin really appeal to you as a user? I'm trying to find a list of must-haves and want-to-have features to bake into my project.
Honestly, a good reputation is the primary feature I care about. Don't be super expensive, on par with Namecheap and godaddy. And don't make the interface bloody complicated. GD is the worst, Namecheap is better but needs work. And make it incredibly easy to move my domains in and out.
What's the most difficult part about moving your domains in and out and why would you switch registrars?
I have a lot of domains. Its expensive to maintain them. Godaddy will sometimes throw up brick walls and prevent domains from being transferred. Right now I've got something like 30 domains spread across 2-3 registrars. Its been such a hassle with godaddy that I kind of got stuck there, as much as I'd like to move.
Let me programmatically set the ip you point to and I will give you money
Can you expand on this? You could run your own DNS server and setup the appropriate DNS records at any registrar.
I have a free subdomain from afraid.org. They've given me a URL with a secret key. When that URL is requested afraid updates my records to point my subdomain at the IP the request came from. I don't have a static IP at my apartment, but I have a script that calls that URL whenever my IP changes, allowing me to always have a domain name pointed toward my home server.
I am not familiar with operating a DNS server. Would that accomplish the usecase I described above? I would like to set up the same system but with a domain I own and not the free one from afraid.org
There are other DNS providers that will do what you want with a purchased domain... you can also use afraid.org for that matter... I put up a domain I wanted others to be able to use for dyndns on afraid.org ...
I remember seeing something about using my own domain on afraid.org. However I use google apps, and I wasn't sure if it was possible or what it would take to keep my email hosted there while still using the dynamic dns. Honestly I don'y have much experience in this area and I don't really know what to research to learn more.
Deal.
I'd like bitcoin to succeed even to a small extent if only as a counterweight to keep central banks in check but it would be better if it weren't so cumbersome to use, ie slow.
It usually takes several days for funds to transfer between banks. Payment processors are a layer built on top of USD. The same infrastructure can be built on top of bitcoin.
"It usually takes several days for funds to transfer between banks"
Maybe in the US. In the civilised world it can be pretty much instantaneous.
Accepting a volatile currency seems risky.
What if bitcoin drops and I fill register domains on the cheap? Is there a way to prevent this? Are the prices somehow pegged to the dollar?
The payment gateway BitPay calculates how many bitcoins equal a USD price and then give that amount (minus their fee) in USD to Namecheap within 2 days.
"It does not matter how many bitcoins we collect, how long it takes to collect them, what we can sell them for, or how long it takes to sell them."
Holding a volatile currency is what's risky.
If the seller and the payment provider quickly convert their bitcoins into USD -- as seems likely to be the case based on the link in Maxious's reply -- then they're minimizing the time interval during which their wealth is exposed to exchange rate fluctuations.
Well every currency is volatile isn't it? I guess (if namecheap is a us-based company) they're bitcoin price would fluctuate just as the bitcoin does in relation to the usd.
The same namecheap that blocked *.imgur.com ?
To put in perspective:
_____~10000000 (10 million) dollars in bitcoin transactions a day [1] verses
~5000000000000 (5 trillion) dollars in daily foreign currency trades worldwide. [2]
My take away is "holy crap, 10 million bitcoin a day is trading hands. That's a lot!"
Especially for a fledgling currency with staunch opposition by traditional bankers and financial markets because it solves a lot of problems that make them a lot of money.
Well, just reading about bitcoin and saw this here. I am pretty fascinated by the fact that it take not much time for currency conversion across the world. Awesome. Hope, this will dominate the current methods, and frauds.
OT: Can anyone suggest a good Bitcoin processor? What about Mt.Gox? Is it sensible to create our own processor and escrow for Bitcoin?
Let's say I think that in one year's time Bitcoin will be gone. And let's say I want to put my money where my mouth is and want to short Bitcoin. Presumably there's a lot of people who think that Bitcoin is going to appreciate and thus should be happy to give me a low-interest loan. And yet there is no way to get a Bitcoin-denominated loan. Does this mean that people don't really believe Bitcoin will be with us in one year's time?
Bitcoin is not exactly a mature currency. When a new merchant starts accepting Bitcoin payments it's still front page news. So I wouldn't read too much into the lack of lending infrastructure. Evaluating creditworthiness, and going after defaulters, is a lot more work than holding cash deposits or accepting cash in return for products, and those things are still big logistical challenges in Bitcoin land.
Sure, but I still have my doubts. Apparently merchants like Namecheap accepting Bitcoin don't name their price in Bitcoin, they name their price in USD. Again, if you believe in Bitcoin, shouldn't you name your price in Bitcoin?
With the volatility of Bitcoin's price, it's quite hard to do. They can't set a single price, so they would have to modify their existing site (where most people probably come to pay in USD anyway) to automatically fetch the current market price.
Not yet, but that will happen once bitcoins saturate the market of currencies. We're just in the beginning stages. Linux sucked when it was first released too.
If I were to give someone a Bitcoin loan, what interest rate should I charge? The massive uncertainty of that question is enough to discourage any such activity. I wouldn't make a Bitcoin loan with a one-week period.
That's exactly what I'm saying. If it's deflationary then it should be worth your while to give me a loan at 0% (assuming I am low default risk). The fact that we don't know where Bitcoin is going to be in one week means that we don't really believe it's deflationary.
"If it's deflationary then it should be worth your while to give me a loan at 0%"
Why? I can just hang on to it for the same return and no risk at all.
This is why BTC loans really don't make sense, to me. Positive interest rates are punitive if the value keeps rising, negative ones pointless.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=65.0
You can short BTC on Bitcoinica... oh wait.
There also options and futures: mpex.co and icbit.se
And also bitfinex.com but generally they are not perceived well.
(haven't used them myself)
Pretty sure you can borrow and loan bitcoin at bitfinex.com.
Looking pretty good, privacy and IPv6 support like you might expect nowadays, only no DNSSEC. Not buying.
Because bitcoins are illegal in my country, I'll keep my personal domains on namecheap but will certainly move my company domains out of there until I figure out if there's a chance I have problems with this.
I like bitcoins just like everyone, but there are laws you need to abide by and bitcoins are illegal in many countries.
I don't see your concern being very realistic. I very much doubt doing business with a foreign company that accepts Bitcoins is illegal in any country as long as you yourself are not involved in Bitcoin trade. I mean, obviously you can be as cautious as you want, but it seems unreasonable to assume that NameCheap is forcing any liability onto its customers.
My only concern is the company credit card getting blocked by my bank, last time it took days to solve this.
I pasted the law and even a case to some other replies, I wouldn't just throw that if it wasn't true.
The laws your links were about appear to address doing business in foreign currencies, with dollars being used in those particular cases. NameCheap already did business in dollars, so why do you think adding Bitcoins presents an additional problem? As long as they're not forcing you to use Bitcoins or dollars for payment, I have a hard time imagining any country getting its knickers in a twist.
Like I said, obviously you should do what you think is best for your business. I just don't think it's fair to imply that NameCheap are forcing liability on people without hard evidence.
Do tell more! I was unaware of any country having officially stated Bitcoin as illegal.
> Do tell more! I was unaware of any country having officially stated Bitcoin as illegal
Bitcoin itself may not be illegal, but the encryption schemes may be illegal for private citizens to use in some countries, especially ones that don't want their citizens communicating in secret.
In Bitcoin protocol there are no encrypted messages. The only thing that may or may not be encrypted is your own private keys. But it does not concern legislation of encrypted communication because you don't communicate those keys to anyone.
I too don't know of any such country, but he might be living in a country that bans all foreign currency. (That's how it was in communist Romania.)
You can make an argument that Bitcoins is not a foreign currency as it can be mined domestically in your own country.
The law I pasted to some other replies just states that the only currency that can be used for commerce within the country is the national one. Also defines that national currency is the one created and regulated by the central bank.
In fact, is it even known which country bitcoin originated in?
I am not aware of any country that has made bitcoin illegal. Are you sure you have your facts right?
Yes, I researched this, and my wife is also an experienced lawyer and works in the judiciary system, prior her current job at family tribunal, she worked in commercial sections.
There are many laws here that forbids using any currency that's not the national one, from consumer's laws to financial laws.
OK, so this is your logic:
1) By your interpretation, there's a law in Brazil that prohibits the use of any currency that is not Brazil's national currency.
2) Because Bitcoin is not Brazil's national currency, you are now worried because NameCheap is now using Bitcoin, and will drop your company accounts with them.
So my main question is: why weren't you worried when Namecheap started accepted US Dollars (i.e., since their founding)? After all USD are not Brazil's national currency. Does this law distinguish between USD and other currencies? This is not the case according to the case you cited.
Most importantly, the law you refer to above, and the case you cited, all seem to involve government payments. And you've cited no other specific laws, other than this one (LEI Nº 4.595, DE 31 DE DEZEMBRO DE 1964), which is basically the law governing the establishment of a national currency. So according to this law, you have to pay the Government of Brazil in Brazilian currency (reales) for taxes, government contracts, etc. This is entirely reasonable; the US Government has a similar law. In the US, at least, this law does not outlaw the use of other currencies. And since multinational corporations do business in USD in Brazil every day of the week, it seems to me extremely unlikely that this outlaws the use of foreign currencies in Brazil. You just can't pay Brazilian government taxes or for other government services in other currencies.
Even though I do have credentials to keep this discussion going forever, I'll refrain from further comments on this thread. You are not willing to understand what I'm saying so my comments are pointless.
As far as I can tell, you have yet to explain how what Namecheap does with other people could effect you, if you simply choose to not use bitcoin to pay them. You haven't given us anything to fail to understand...
Sorry dude, you have several people asking you what country your in and you give no answer. What you said (That Bitcoins are illegal in your country) is complete FUD until you provide some proof.
As far as I am concerned, until you tell us where your country is, it seems your trying to damage namecheap's and /or Bitcoin's reputation for no reason.
Please provide the country and law cited. Cheers.
My country is in my contact information, I didn't answer because I went to sleep.
This is the law that complete forbids using any currency other than the national for internal commerce and disposes about how forex must work, which bitcoins do not comply.
http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/LEIS/L4595.htm
This is a case where people were using dollars to pay for national contracts:
http://jus.com.br/revista/texto/8566/da-impossibilidade-de-p...
Thanks for replying, I can't read the links however I have a question: Is buying a domain from namecheap considered internal commerce? Also many other items bought with Bitcoins would be external to your country.
Surely you can buy a wordpress account with USD without being arrested? What makes buying wordpress / namecheap with Bitcoin any different? Or maybe i'm misunderstanding something. (Honest I probably am missing something, this happens to me a lot :)
Eduardo is from Brazil.
Perhaps he was referring to this?
http://silvervigilante.com/bitcoin-attacked-by-brazils-secur...
Maybe he meant planet ?
Where is bitcoin illegal? I don't think Bitcoin is illegal in any country.
I hesitated adding those links here because of the very high amount of downvotes I'm getting, which means most of you don't like the message I'm passing, anyway, I think you are acting out of emotion, there you go:
Contains links to laws in the US that can be used against bitcoins:
http://www.usmint.gov/consumer/?action=archives#NORFED
Thesis showing that most parallel currencies are illegal (including in the US):
http://repositorio.bce.unb.br/bitstream/10482/9485/1/2011_Ma...
Bank Palmas created a 'social currency', it is a crime here, they escaped jail in 2003, but then in 2011 things got ugly:
http://empreendedorsocial.blogfolha.uol.com.br/2012/07/11/um...
I assume they still accept real cash.
Um, are you saying they don't accept real cash anymore?
You appear to be from Brazil, in which case you're flat out wrong. Bitcoins are not illegal in Brazil, or in any other country that I'm aware of. The government securities commission in Brazil recently suspended operations of a Brazil-based Bitcoin investment company ("Grupo de Investimento Bitcoin") that they said was an investment company operating without government approval, but that's a far cry from barring Bitcoin.
http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/LEIS/L4595.htm
Yes, they are. Any currency other than the national currency cannot be used for commerce.
This is a case where people were using dollars to pay for national contracts:
http://jus.com.br/revista/texto/8566/da-impossibilidade-de-p...
The only kind of parallel currency that is acceptable under the law are called 'social currencies' which are just food stamps.
Move out of Elbonia.
These companies advertised on the frontpage of HN as "taking Bitcoins" aren't taking Bitcoins directly, y'know.
Why does it matter that they are using a third party system to accept payments?
Because his concern is that they are "taking bitcoins", which they are not.
Fuck yeah Namecheap!
It's odd about technology. The more pervasive it becomes before it legislators are aware of it, the harder it is to crack down upon. I don't know what the legal challenges will be to the widespread use of BitCoin in commerce, but I'm sure there will be some.