Show HN: Greater Peace of Mind Guaranteed, or Your Money Isn't Refunded
vowofnow.comLet me get this straight. You've hired a Zen master so that your team can encourage people to meditate in order not to lose the money they've gambled? You seriously think you can inspire true meditation in someone by making them worry about the money they'll lose if they don't "meditate?" What's wrong with you? More importantly, what's wrong with the obviously fraudulent Zen master that's helping you do this?
First of all, meditation shouldn't have anything to do with a financial worry/financial incentive. This is one of the most dishonest things I've seen on HN. It's a cheap way to make money off the unsuspecting, naive crowd that's never had the patience or discipline to try meditation and has money to waste. Your website isn't even technically innovative; it makes money by encouraging people to give you their money, and you get to keep it if they don't achieve deeply personal goals that involve detachment, peace and personal discovery. How are you helping? How is taking money hostage contributing to the spirit of true meditation?
If you want to make money, go beyond an HTML page that laughs in the face of meditation and make something actually useful, like a real product.
I'm saying this as someone who did specialized research in Zen buddhism in an academic environment for one year.
You say two things:
"meditation shouldn't have anything to do with a financial worry"
I disagree with this in principle. Meditation is very much a habit and I think it's quite possible to incentivize developing the habit without somehow 'tainting' the practice. It is much like how many people learn to write or play in instrument. It begins as a painful task that they are forced to do when they are young. Once they have learned the skill, and the habit of practicing, it is more easy for them to express complex and subtle ideas and feelings. Ironically this is a tactic consistently employed with children in many East Asian cultures.
It's true that meditation shouldn't have to do with financial worry, but the cultivation of the habit and the later cultivation of the practice that depends on the habit can be decoupled.
"It's a cheap way to make money of the unsuspecting"
This may be true if the tactic is actually unsuccessful in getting people into the habit of meditating. I honestly can't be sure whether financial incentives are effective here. I know that some businesses charge their employees with $20, or some escalating amount when they are late to work and it works quite well, but that's a different sort of situation.
His name is 'milkman', after all.
LMAO! :)
I'm trying to help and motivate people to make meditation a daily habit using powerful incentives.
VOW of NOW was designed to have as few moving parts as possible. The focus is to meditate so to achieve greater peace and emotional stability. Besides, if you're worrying about money all the time, all the more reason to meditate.
You have a typo in your subline: "Pledge money and vow to mediate for 30 days straight."
I am assuming mediate should be meditate, unless you really want my help in a peace process (not wise).
Thank you. I'll correct that.
You're getting a pretty hostile response!
People are free to spend their money on whatever they want. I'd prefer them to spend money on meditation than on, for example, telephone psychics or homeopathy.
Motivation is a tricky, unsolved, problem. It's really important too - people need motivation to stop smoking, to eat better, to exercise more. These all have serious public health impacts. So I welcome anyone working on this problem. I hope you're keeping detailed stats.
Good Luck!
Awesome! Love the idea, and would love to partner up and make a deal to get people excited and started meditating. I released Buddha Mind (http://buddhamindapp.com) yesterday, an app which incorporates a heart rate monitor to measure changes in your heart rate variance.
Shoot me an email at my username at gmail dot com, and let's see if we can't get more people excited about meditating and learning to control their mind.
Thank you. Lets do it. I'll zip you an email now.
First off, I think it's a cool idea. Now, I certainly don't expect this is the case here, but the cynic in me notes that in a set up like this, there is actually a financial incentive for the 'service provider' here to provide such a bad product that they actually turn customers away.
The better the service provided, the more likely customers are to stick with the program, and the less money they make.
I certainly can't wait to get feedback from the people who are already taking the vow. Hopefully they achieve greater peace and make meditation a fun habit and will tell others. Then I can get some testimonials for the site.
I am going to give it a try, and my evaluator is an orthodox buddhist practitioner. Without criteria for what constitutes a success, do you realistically thing people will qualify for the "Refund" level of completion?
I guess, what is the plan for people who do complete the 30 days and try their best, get a positive evaluation from a peer, but then don't meet your criteria? "Sorry you did your best, but I'm keeping your 20 bucks."
I already paid, so you'll be hearing back :)
I read about someone pledged to give money to the KKK if she ever smoked again. The negative association was motivational. The strength of the feeling was stronger than the urge to break the habit.
only 15 minutes ? lazy bastards. kyōsaku thwack
Yeah, I agree. Things don't even get interesting for me until 30 minutes in.
I wanted it to be attainable for everyone though, even novices with "monkey mind".
I would pledge between $5 and $10. No thinking. At that point we may even start to talk subscription.
Twenty seemed like the magic number for me after much deliberation, but maybe I could add "commitment levels" or whatever so people can increase or decrease the amount of their pledge.
genius!
my thoughts exactly
Thanks guys!
Uh, this is really stupid. You can do this exact same thing for any activity for free with joesgoals.com or any of the tens of other freely available "don't break the chain" web apps.
Here are some more:
http://www.openforum.com/articles/17-best-tools-and-apps-for...
I think the difference is that this website isn't a generic habit forming tool. There's a specific goal and the website will provide you information on how to achieve it.
According to the FAQ:
> Pay the $20 pledge and follow the Zen Master’s instructions that are emailed to you
That said, I'm not very comfortable with this website since the parameters for success and the content of the program are not clearly defined before you commit... and 20$ isn't a throwaway amount in my local currency (besides there's the inconvenience that even if the money is returned, I will loose the currency conversion cost).
Great feedback. I need to clarify that.
Basically, the Zen Master provides an assessment form for your evaluator to fill out and sign.
The evaluator you choose is the one who decides at the end of the 30 day VOW of NOW whether you have achieved zen mind through diligent meditation practice - and get a refund (or not).
This system provides feedback from a trusted peer, as well as provides a money incentive (your own money).
Wow. This couldn't sound any more like a scam. So it's basically a cable Christian channel asking people to donate money to save their souls. Or the Catholic Church offering to sell Indulgences to sinners. Nice startup.
Well, your link has 17 of these, why not one more?
Plus, this one is for meditation only, and has feedback, I doubt any of those links would give specific advice on meditation like this site does.
For people interested in meditation, I believe this is actually a great app.
More than half of the 17 are free.
I could spend a little more time searching for a list of exclusively free habit forming tools (or prepare one) but that's not necessary to prove my point.
My point is that free alternatives exist.
Some people need that monetary motivation.
I guess if you want to make money off the failures of others... Personally, that's not something I would ever want to be associated with.
Well, that's a little unfair to say since you don't know me or my motivation behind this project.
The only person that can "fail" you is your evaluator - the person YOU choose to help you keep your vow. Your evaluator must fill out an assessment after your 30 day vow which decides whether you get your refund.
EDIT: Bailing out early from the vow also makes a person ineligible for a refund. The VOW of NOW is for 30 days in a row, no less.