Yt-dlp – [Announcement] Bun support is now limited and deprecated
github.comOh well, I really like using Bun and I get kinda sad about the turn they are taking after the Anthropic acquisition. I really want a good Node with batteries included, but I don't want it vibe coded.
Unless specific issues have been identified that were introduced by it being "vibe coded", isn't a reaction to reject it outright without actually checking the ground truth just exhibiting the behavior you are criticizing?
[delayed]
I think it's hilarious how hopeful people were at the acquisition that Bun would be able to continue on mostly as it had been but then that all got completely thrown away and trashed.
(Hilarious in the way that's terribly sad, of course.)
It usually takes years for someone's values to be thrown out the window! How long was this one?
changing your employer tends to accelerate that if the new employer has different values.
How has it been trashed? Does the Bun software not work anymore?
They literally threw out every line of code that existed before and rewrote it in a completely different language, seemingly on a whim. That's how it was trashed, in the very literal sense that all of the existing project was tossed in the trash in favor of a completely brand new code base. That's a big deal even if you ignore the coding agent aspects.
Nobody knows.
I understand their decision. How could the maintainers understand their codebase if most of it was not directly written by them?
It is impossible to review the entire rewritten codebase. There are just too many lines of code, 1 million lines to be exact [1].
Right. I now have responsibility for rather large codebases where the person who generated it with agentic tools (I'd say it's better than pure 'vibe coding') barely understands how it works. This is okay for unimportant parts of the codebase, but completely unacceptable for a critical piece of infrastructure where it really needs to be well thought out.
Say what you will about Rust vs Zig as languages, the Zig toolchain is definitely the easier of the two to integrate into another project.
This doesn't really have anything to do with the merits of the languages themselves, but rather with the rewrite being entirely vibe coded. If it had been from Rust to Zig instead of from Zig to Rust, I expect the exact same response would have happened.
I assume they need to do a bunch of WebAPI bullshit to get around Youtube's draconian policies, but maybe one day https://txikijs.org/ will solve all problems with embedding javascript. I believe, and maybe the strength of my belief will be enough.
The "to vibe code or not to vibe code" holy war is now in full swing.
there could be recommended runtimes, but shouldn’t the runtime be user-configurable anyway?
There is no generic “JavaScript runtime” interface that runtimes would implement, therefore support must be tailored to the specific interfaces of existing runtimes.
At one point we had UMD[0], which effectively provided runtime-agnostic interface, but ES modules were incompatible with that.
Deno and Bun have decent Node compatibility, so couldn't Node APIs be used as the generic runtime interface?
[delayed]
Honestly I hope agentic AI ushers in a new age of minimal-SBOM software. I myself am moving all of my projects towards nearly 100% vanilla where possible. For example, golang. Why use [insert web framework] when you can just use vanilla for 99% of web apps?
There's something really satisfying about a go binary with minimal dependencies running in a busybox docker container.
Rather than have complexity centralised and managed, let's generate the same vulnerable code across millions of apps. Great plan.
Wouldn't that be worse? With dependencies, it's at least possible that someone else has audited the code, but with a vibe-coded from scratch app, it's definitely totally unreviewed.
You only add what you actually need instead of importing some bloated dependency.
Frameworks and ORMs were the pre-agentic AI "iron man suit".
I'm quite liking how good Claude Code Opus is at Rust + sqlx (raw SQL with type safety) + actix-web.
Wow, bun support was just added in November last year (I think). That's a lot of work to throw away, but you can't argue with their reasoning.
bun is still supported for specific versions so nothing is being thrown away. in any case the actual code is the same, since it's all javascript. it's more a matter of the wrapper code that calls the different runtimes and maybe some edgecases where the runtimes are not 100% compatible.
As long as Deno support is still there I'm not sure why you need anything else. It's not vibe coded slop for one.
Well, apparently Deno is also a slop now: https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp/issues/16766#issuecomment-4...
Deno's LLM contributions have been smaller in scope, so they're more likely to be reviewed by a human, and the codebase remains understood by its contributors. Can the same be said of Bun, which switched to an entirely different language in a single, million-line PR?[0]
Reason #2 is purely speculative. It’s disappointing to see technical decisions being made on such grounds.
All dependency management is speculative. You've got to hedge your bets that the dependency is reliable and fit for purpose. It is reasonable to view Bun's recent choices as increasing the risk associated with depending on it.
Very much agree. Until the vibe-coded version has been fully audited and profiled to perform, within reasonable tolerances, as well as the original code base, it feels like a bad idea to support it downstream or use it in production.
Yes, but only if auditing includes an exhaustive human review of the code, not just passing the tests we (or an AI) thought to write.
I'd hope that the bun team is going to put into the work to ensure the LLM translated version is up to snuff before cutting a release from it though... it doesn't seem fair to assume that that isn't going to happen.
It's a common fallacy among tech folks to believe that every decision can be made from 100% deterministic grounds ("X decision will result in Y percent change"). In reality, successful decision-making often involves speculation. The speculation in question is within the bounds of reason. You may disagree, but the fact that it is speculative isn't the problem.
What part of the recent history of vibe coded projects has not resulted in low quality, bug laden code? Dismissing this a "purely speculative" is just like dismissing the weather report as "purely speculative" when deciding what to wear in the morning.
There is quite the selection bias going on here... you aren't hearing about the successful projects.
People love to brag about using AI to get work done. If anything I expect the successful projects to be overrepresented.
Care to list them then? I have yet to see a successful vibe coded project
With all the unprecedented investment and desperation behind it, these hypothetical LLM successes would be getting shoved down our throats.
Low quality, bug laden code has existed long before LLMs and it'll continue to exist long after. Their rationale about avoiding future headaches could literally apply to any open source project they have a dependency on.
The existence of bad code doesn't mean you should be happy to accept it.
Doesn’t bun have a massive test suite that the rewrite passes? What else do people want?
Tests are one quality control. It's horrifying that some of us treat them as the only thing that matters. There's review, obviously, and of course we haven't even had to think about "written by a thinking mind" as a beneficial quality until now.
Vibe coding from scratch is far from translating an existing app to another language.
I don't know any bad stories about ai-translated apps. Partially because it's a relatively new trend, but also because a big amount of usual vibe code fail modes are not applicable here.
It's a reasonable decision to not take a dependency which doesn't meet your own engineering standards. People in the JS community could learn something from that.
This like if BitTorrent cut off Windows support over objections to Microsoft embrace/extend/extinguish. It’s a slightly incoherent position.
This seems like a tenuous analogy, to put it lightly.