'Carspreading' is on the rise – and not everyone is happy about it
bbc.co.uk> Lucia Barbato, from West Sussex, says her second-hand Lexus RX450 SUV - a hybrid model - is vital for transporting her large family in an area with limited public transport.
If she needs a car, it is what it is. But her situation specifically is one where a minivan would solve her problems. She says the SUV gets cramped with 3 kids and their sports equipment. This is exactly the problem minivans solved. I think the problem being faced here is more about societal trends and cars as status symbols and expressions of self. SUVs are cool and trendy, minivans are lame and boring.
Another person said they need a Land Rover Defender. Also, minivan solves their specific problems of shuttling people and needing to fit a door on occasion.
Minivans aren't small by any means, but they are much more functional and useable than what most people are buying.
I think many people don't appreciate that large MPVs/minivans are almost exactly the same size as mid-size SUVs like the Lexus RX450h mentioned in the article. The dimensions tell the story:
Ford Galaxy (large MPV, 2015): 4,853mm × 1,916mm × 1,811mm Ford S-Max (mid-size MPV, 2015): 4,796mm × 1,916mm × 1,655mm Renault Espace (2015): 4,878mm × 1,888mm × 1,675mm Lexus RX (2015): 4,890mm × 1,895mm × 1,685mm
The Galaxy and S-Max are actually wider than the Lexus, while the Espace is only 7mm narrower. Length differences are minimal, the S-Max is 94mm shorter, the Galaxy 37mm shorter, and the Espace 12mm shorter than the RX.
Beside both the Galaxy and S-Max have been discontinued, and the Renault Espace, the vehicle that essentially created the MPV segment has rebranded itself as a "mid-size crossover SUV" for its sixth generation and follow on generation. The distinction between MPVs and crossover SUVs has largely collapsed.
> they need a Land Rover Defender
This is an English thing and I don't really get it, despite being English originally. Our English neighbour imported their Land Rover when they moved here from the UK, all the way to NZ. As far as I can tell their appeal is just for talking about it in-between trips to the mechanic, which is where they'll spend a lot of their time. Said neighbour's one is currently unroadworthy. They're ugly (subjective), inefficient, rattly, unreliable, not super fun to drive. I could understand if it was a nationalistic thing, but LR is owned by Tata motors.
Microvans still exist in Europe too. I can carry driver + 3 + a lot of luggage or driver + 5 with little luggage. Or driver + 2 if the luggage includes a tuba, euphonium and trombone. They're fabulously space efficient. I'm annoyed that you can't buy them in North America ever since the Mazda 5 was discontinued in 2015.
Minivans are a terrible driving experience compared to SUVs. I wouldn't even wish them on my enemies.
How so? I've driven many SUVs and minivans. Minivans usually offer better visibility and have lower center of gravity.
Even still, are people buying an SUV or minivan for the driving experience?
Yeah-- I'm thinking the same thing.
I have a Honda Pilot (full-size SUV) and CR-V (crossover SUV) and I've driven my brother-in-law's Odyssey (minivan) a fair amount.
The Pilot feels like a lumbering beast that begs to roll over. It also has less visibility than the CR-V and the Odyssey.
I don't feel a ton of difference between the CR-V and the Odyssey. I also never worry about the CG in either one. They have a very similar feel. I can definitely see around both of them better than the Pilot (though I think the CR-V has a little bit of an advantage).
The visibility and comfort on road trips is why I'll probably continue to own a minivan even after I don't need it to haul kids around. I can throw 8'x4' sheet goods onto the roof rack and anything smaller fits inside with the seats down.
Me I like fast small cars which it's crazy a few times I've almost been hit by people who are higher than me/merging into my lane.
I'm patiently waiting for a > 200hp Miata/Fiat 500 sized RWD/AWD electric, even if it's low range. Fingers crossed for an electric Toyota MR2.
I got excited when I heard about the electric reboot of the Renault 5 turbo:
https://www.renault.co.uk/electric-vehicles/r5-turbo-3e.html
Alas it's more of a concept car with limited sales and a 6 figure price
When I'm not so poor I'm trying to get a supercharged Lotus Exige in Orange ahhh that car is amazing atm I drive a little 4banger turbo
There already is an electric Abarth, but it is FWD. Same with the electric Mini.
What do you think about car conversion kits then? They have currently a so limited range unfortunately, but look so very fun that I'm actually pondering it.
It's bewildering how the ludicrously large American cars feel even more cramped on the inside than standard British fare.
> These heavier vehicles typically produce more emissions, cause greater wear and tear on roads, and critically pose a significantly higher risk in the event of a road traffic collision.
Especially EVs, with the exception of direct emissions.
It seems like Waymo... just fundamentally does in fact work. So if we do things with cars intended for long term systematic reform, we should do things that are optimised for the world of increasing driverlessness.
I imagine a world without drivers to be a lot safer from a driving quality perspective.
I can imagine a world in cars where, like trains, it is no longer the norm to wear a seatbelt because crashes are so rare.
What implications does that have for the interior design of cars? Does that make the perfect car bigger or smaller?
I've always driven small sedans (sentra ser back in the 90s, currently a toyota corolla). Learning to drive in 1980, it was common to be able to see traffic through the two cars in front of you because (1) most cars were small sedans, and (2) really dark window tinting hadn't become a thing. Now I'm usually looking at the rear of a SUV or tall pickup truck and can't anticipate traffic even one car ahead.
Anyway, for years I've always responded to the "I feel so much safer in my big car/truck" with "I always stand up in movie theaters because the view is so much better"
Must be a very important movie, I guess, to analogize the inability to see a film to being killed to death.
Either you don't understand what an analogy is, your misunderstand this one in particular.
My point was that both do something which benefits me that directly disadvantages other people. When people talk about their massive truck feeling safer, somehow this dynamic is ignored. But if someone applied the same reasoning about standing up in a movie theater, the selfishness is apparent to everyone.
[dupe] Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46130609
American's reading this article like they replaced a miniature car with a small car. Why the outrage?
If we're gonna have big cars, can they at least look like the big cars of the 1950s and 1960s rather than scaled-up compact/crossover blobs?
You'd have to actually turn them into cars since what you're talking about are trucks: vehicles built on truck frames to avoid the MPG requirements of cars.
It is as if professional politicians are completely incapable of learning about perverse incentives and unintended consequences.