Show HN: KVSplit – Run 2-3x longer contexts on Apple Silicon

Great question about the intuition! The difference comes from the core roles these components play in attention.

Keys determine which tokens to attend to - they create the actual attention pattern through similarity calculations. Values only store what information gets passed forward once attention is decided.

When a key vector is quantized too aggressively, it distorts the similarity calculations for every token interaction. A small error in keys can completely redirect attention to the wrong tokens.

Values, however, are much more forgiving. When a value vector is quantized, any error only affects the specific information content of that single token after the attention pattern is already established.

It's like a library catalog system vs. the books themselves. If catalog numbers (keys) are corrupted, you'll look in completely wrong sections. If some words in books (values) are smudged, you're still reading the right book - just with occasional noise.

Mathematically, keys participate in softmax calculations where small errors get exponentially amplified through the normalization process. Values just undergo linear weighted averaging, where errors tend to cancel out.

I first encountered this asymmetry in papers like "More for Keys, Less for Values" and "KV-AdaQuant," but wanted to quantify exactly how it impacts Apple Silicon inference. The 7× quality difference between K8V4 and K4V8 using identical memory was striking.

Thanks for the installation feedback too! I'll fix the placeholder and make the Python dependencies more flexible.

> A note, your install script appears to still have a placeholder at the "apply patch" step. A suggestion, might be more user-friendly to fork llama.cpp and then include that as a git submodule rather than make it a "git clone and apply patch" step.

The patch doesn't actually apply to llama.cpp because argument parsing was moved to arg.cpp 8 months ago.

That doesn't matter, though, because the options to set K and V quantization were added to llama.cpp in 2023.

I don't understand why the patch exists at all, other than as an attempt to make this look novel by changing the settings through a different command line argument?

I would strongly recommend that nobody run an install.sh file from a new repo like this, especially when it's not necessary for something as simple as applying a patch file.

No, it appears to be an LLM-generated attempt to gain GitHub stars.

See my other comment for a sampling of the other oddities in the repo.

I'm guessing it's a bit different since MLX/MPS doesn't have native 4-bit support (or even 8 if I remember correctly?) It didn't launch with bf16 support even. So I think the lowest you could go on the old type_k/v solution and apple GPUs was 16-bit f16/bf16 but not a llama.cpp internals expert so maybe wrong?

That’s what I want to know!

Probably but I am currently deep in the MLX weeds and finding out that though it's a well-designed framework it's much less mature in terms of example code you can steal where someone has already benchmarked the "best way" to do something.

My biggest hope for it is actually Haskell bindings believe it or not. Someone pointed out the other day its laziness makes it fit really well for that paradigm and the more or less pure-function approach to the compile graph helps too. ML in Haskell would be fun.

Yes, that's one of the key benefits - KVSplit works with any existing .gguf model without requiring reconstruction or special conversion. The quantization happens at runtime on the KV cache, not during model loading or conversion.

This works because the KV cache is created during inference as tokens are processed, completely separate from the model weights themselves. The --kvq-key and --kvq-val flags simply tell llama.cpp how to store these intermediate tensors in memory.

I've tested it successfully with:

- Llama-3 models - Mistral models - Phi-2/Phi-3 - TinyLlama - Qwen variants

The only limitation is that it requires llama.cpp's Metal backend, and you need to disable Flash Attention with -fa 0 since the current FA implementation in llama.cpp bypasses the custom KV cache format. The technique itself should work with any transformer architecture that uses a standard attention mechanism.

Yes, I didn't even say anything about how suspicious the rest of it is because maybe I really was missing something and the author would point it out here.

There are numerous red flags. At best it is someone trying to game their Github profile with LLM-generated code, just look at the May 12 activity from that profile.

Finally someone making sense. The fact this project works by applying patches instead of forking the original project and committing changes should alone be reason for concern.

But OP's entire GitHub presence is suspicious. On May 12th they fired off LLM slop PRs to a bunch of popular projects, and only the JAX ones were rejected. Nevertheless, this allowed them to pin these popular projects to their profile, as if they were a contributor.

I can't put into words how despicable this all is. Anyone working in the AI field is complicit in the corruption of information, the ramifications of which we can't even predict yet. Dead internet and the flood of AI slop is just the beginning.

The memory savings from KVSplit scale proportionally with context length, so higher-RAM Macs (64GB/128GB) benefit even more in absolute terms. On a 128GB Mac Studio, you could potentially handle context windows in the hundreds of thousands of tokens.

However, KVSplit doesn't fundamentally change computation speed - just memory efficiency. Our benchmarks show a 14.5% throughput improvement with K8V4, but this comes from better memory locality, not reduced computation.

The "painfully slow" issue with large models on Apple Silicon stems primarily from the compute limitations, not memory constraints. A 70B parameter model will still run at similar token generation speeds regardless of available RAM or KV cache optimizations.

What KVSplit does is make better use of whatever memory you have available. It's particularly valuable when your bottleneck is context length rather than model size.

For practical Apple Silicon usage, the sweet spot remains smaller models (7B-13B) with now-expanded context windows. This lets you process significantly more text while maintaining reasonable generation speeds.

If your workflow needs both massive contexts AND large models, you'd still want to consider server-grade GPUs, but KVSplit helps push the boundary of what's feasible on Apple hardware.

With the K8V4 configuration providing 59% memory savings, you can effectively run contexts 2.4× longer on the same hardware. A model with a 2048 token context can now handle about 5000 tokens, while an 8K context model can reach approximately 19.5K tokens.

In practical terms, this means processing entire books at once on a MacBook, analyzing large codebases without splitting files, or maintaining comprehensive conversation history in chat applications.

The memory savings scale linearly with context length - the longer your context window, the more absolute memory you save. On my M4 MacBook with 8K context, I reduced KV cache from 176MB to 72MB. At 128K context, that same percentage saving would free up gigabytes.

This optimization is most valuable when you're context-window limited rather than model-parameter limited. If you're hitting OOM errors due to long inputs rather than large model weights, KVSplit directly addresses your bottleneck.

> Will it just allow me to run let’s say a model with a 2048 token context window with a 4-6k context window

It reduces the memory footprint of a particular model. You can do what you like with that. Extending the context window post-training isn't trivial, so unless you know what you're doing, you'd be better off finding a model trained on a larger context window.

Many uses for local models like working offline or privacy/security. Most folks, though, are using it to experiment with tweaking models.

Yup, this approach would likely work on NVIDIA/AMD GPUs as well - the underlying principle that keys require higher precision than values is hardware-independent.

The CUDA backend in llama.cpp already supports separate cache type settings with the `--cache-type-k` and `--cache-type-v` flags. Our particular patch is focused on Metal-specific optimizations, but the core technique transfers directly.

Regarding compatibility with other quantization methods - absolutely. This KV cache optimization is complementary to model weight quantization (Q4_K_M, GPTQ, AWQ, etc.). You can combine asymmetric KV cache precision with any model weight format.

Since KV cache quantization happens at runtime while processing tokens (separate from model weights), it doesn't conflict with how the model itself is quantized. They operate on different parts of the inference pipeline.

What would require additional work is integrating with specialized inference engines that have custom KV cache handling, like vLLM or TensorRT-LLM. Each would need its own implementation of asymmetric KV precision.

The most immediate GPU benefit would likely come from integrating these insights into the FlashAttention implementation directly, where the memory bandwidth savings could translate to even greater speedups on CUDA hardware.

> This means you can run LLMs with 2-3× longer context on the same Mac. Memory usage scales with sequence length, so savings compound as context grows.

The point seems to be that this reduces memory footprint. This makes it possible to run longer context, for the same limited memory, if you couldn't before. Or, you can use that free memory to do something else, like an IDE.

I think this is true, I've found I get roughly the same iteration speed for prompt processing no matter if the cache is fp16, q8 or q4.

It doesn't make sense to me though, I haven't looked into how it works inside but I would've thought it would pack vectors and then do 4-8b simd on all of them at once, but it really seems like it's not packing em.

> Using `--flash-attn --cache-type-k q8_0 --cache-type-v q8_0`

I think you meant ‘--cache-type-v q4_0’

I would also like an explanation for what’s different in this patch compared to the standard command line arguments.