Tesla suffers worst quarter since 2022 as deliveries tumble
ft.comThat's what happens when a CEO associates themselves tightly with their brand and then publicly takes extremely polarizing political action that half the voter base considers antithetical to their values.
There was a comedian talking about how Musk is now selling trucks after selling eco friendly sedans to anyone who will buy one. People who drive Real Manly Trucks in this country generally don’t jive with the eco friendly crowd so he has to act more like them.
Of course that’s a humorous take, not a serious one but I do wonder how much of that is a part of his thinking.
I do think there is a chance he just runs Tesla into the ground and there definitely is an opportunity for another company to come in and position themselves as quality electric vehicles without the politics.
I don't buy the idea that Musk is doing this as some sort of branding play. I think he genuinely believes in what he says; his beliefs have just shifted over the past few years, notably after COVID.
His trans daughter Vivian is what flipped him. "Woke mind virus." For someone trying to have as many kids as possible (allegedly boys prioritized) and the controlling personality type, he takes great offense, as if this is a mortal sin against him. He also does not act in a healthy way when his attempts to exert control over others fails. Haven't heard much from him since his $25M in Wisconsin didn't buy him the election.
https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2024/08/13/e... | https://archive.today/LsqF9
https://www.wsj.com/tech/elon-musks-quest-to-make-men-great-... | https://archive.today/BgTwJ
He has had sex-selective IVF for all of his children, and all that we know about have been biologically male.
Vivian has pointed this out - Elon feels personally affronted by having a daughter. She was selected to be be male at birth in a VERY LITERAL sense. Her being transgender is an explicit rejection of his wishes, and that triggers him.
> He has had sex-selective IVF for all of his children, and all that we know about have been biologically male.
That's kinda f-ed up. I'd understand doing it once, because he wanted at least one boy, but 12 kids and all chosen to be boys? Why?
Especially since he seems to ignore those children except the one he drags around with him.
Maybe he has some dream about being a patriarch of a giant family.
Actually, considering his "pay someone else to play video games" actions, it makes sense that he's paying others to raise his kids. He seems to want the appearance but none of the work behind it.
He legitimately believes that we're in a simulation. While scientists have explored the thought experiment to improve understanding of the universe, he took all the wrong lessons from it and considers everyone else an NPC. So to me it makes complete sense that an idiot like him would use his money and power to make as many boys as possible in that way.
You might be familiar with deBord's "Society of the Spectacle".
He observed that all societies evolve from "Being" to "Having" and ultimately devolve into "The Appearance of Having".
It explains a lot of what we see with the rise of Twitter, TikTok, influencers, etc.
I have a lot of skepticism about the "stalker threatened the vehicle" story that came out of Musk, especially considering his security never called 911 or anything corroborating, but on this note, in two separate incidents where two of his children were in a vehicle, his public statements afterwards commented on the threat to or safety of the male child, and made no mention of the female child in the same car.
Eugenics!
I'm sure that's part of it, but I think the first sign was in 2020 when he basically went to war with California over their shelter in place orders. Remember the "Zero new cases by the end of April" prediction?
There were glimpses of his idiotic side coming out earlier, mainly the "pedo" comment about the diver in Thai kids rescue but COVID definitely triggered something major on him, he lost any semblance of a filter after the pandemic.
That wasn't a "glimpse", that was S-tier idiocy on display.
At the time it was S-tier idiocy, relatively speaking to nowadays terms... It was a glimpse.
I also remember the Personification of Science who funded virus creation at a lab in the city where the virus first spread spending February 2020 saying that Covid probably wasn’t going to be a problem. This raises a whole lot of questions BUT no one here wants to talk about that. And besides he’s been pardoned.
It’s funny how fast the Hn crowd can go back and forth between asking “what radicalized you?” and looking away from the answer.
You're right. Only you have been able to understand the truth. Everyone else was misled.
Congrats!
I mean, I think the first really massively public sign that he had a screw loose was the submarine thing.
He's been an extremist freak forever he just used to think it was more beneficial to keep it somewhat out of view. It's been there if you looked though.
Like go read how he talked about it when he first started publicly fantasizing about mars about a decade ago. Ignore the technical stuff and take the few concrete details he does give about his goals per se and not just the means to accomplish them. And extrapolate out into how that could actually work as an economic or governance system. The only way it could work is as a novel configuration of indentured servitude or possibly straight up slavery. He's smoking the worst ideas from a century of dystopian sci fi and taking them as a blueprint. Literally torment nexus shit.
Or I mean the "pedo diver" thing was seven years ago, this was only just after pizzagate, it was a massive clue he was already deep in far right conspiracy theory subcultures. The article by his first wife came out years before that which sure you could have just dismissed as pure fabrication. But already by then there was enough evidence aligned with it that it was wholly credible. https://www.marieclaire.com/sex-love/a5380/millionaire-start...
Or uh, why did he leave south africa in the first place. Not why did he come to the US, which is what he tries to divert this question to if asked. Emigrating is a massive upheaval, it generally takes a lot of pressure, or anticipation of it, to get someone to do that. What pressure did he perceive to be on him?
I'm not willing or qualified to get too into the political history of south africa but 1987 is frequently mentioned in scholarship as when it became broadly clear to south africans that apartheid was going to collapse in the near future. Musk left in 1988. His father was a south african politician who resigned his party over their support of a constitutional reform that would give (limited!) representation to non-white south africans. People aren't their parents of course but a 18-year-old isn't completely free of their influence either. We'll never know for sure obviously but I think it's very likely ... why am I even writing this how can you not see it.
I ask that you read his words, look at the timing, and connect the dots. Any one of these could be a coincidence, sure, I guess. But given his more recent behavior a much simpler explanation is, again, that he was always an extremist freak.
I clocked this guy as a massive threat in like 2011 just based on vibes and kept an eye on him. I think I got this one right.
[I've edited this post rather than respond to some of the comments because I'm rate limited and out of comments for the next several hours.]
Sorry, but why would a Mars colony only work with indentured servitude and/or slavery, as proposed by Elon Musk? Not disputing this, just curious what his proposal looks like.
He doesn't exactly strike me as a democrat, but I would like to know his plans?
Well just extremely basically, what are you gonna get when "not a democrat" forms a brand new & fully independent polity, completely outside the international system, virtually impossible to have any external insight into, not a signatory to any treaties or conventions, with no peers at all to provide any sort of mechanism for economic or humanitarian pressure and not even the realistic possibility of emigration if you're born inside it. It may not be exactly slavery as we know it historically but there are very few ways this could go I think.
Indentured servitude I believe he proposed himself actually, though I can't find it now I think it was in a twitter thread and I don't think he used those words precisely. But the idea of people taking loans for the transit costs and then working them off on mars he endorses. That could be called a few different things based on implementation I guess but given the other information we have I find it alarming. At the very least it's company town + 21st century state surveillance apparatus + the above paragraph.
And well but anyway the larger point I was making was just that his extreme political views predate covid or his daughter coming out or democrats being mean to him or several other hypotheses that are regularly asserted. If you don't find that one compelling just skip it and check the others.
> Sorry, but why would a Mars colony only work with indentured servitude and/or slavery, as proposed by Elon Musk?
Isn't there a saying that companies/startups are all dictatorships? That's exactly what a privately-run space colony would actually be, but without any of the outlets that make working for a company tolerable (the theoretical possibility of getting a job elsewhere, being free outside of work hours, etc.).
I don't think it's helpful to use terms like "slavery" or "indentured servitude" to describe the situation, since those are legal concepts for polity where freer statuses are possible. It'd be more like North Korea. Are North Koreans slaves? Not really. Are they free? No. Do you want to be a North Korean? Probably not.
> Or I mean the "pedo diver" thing was seven years ago, this was only just after pizzagate, it was a massive clue he was already deep in far right conspiracy theory subcultures.
I'm not sure I see that connection. At the time I though "pedo diver" was more throwing around stereotypes about Thailand and the kinds of people who travel there (e.g full of prostitution, and foreigners seeking it) than anything to do with pizzagate. Like a bullying "Oh you went to Thailand, you must be a pedo. Ha ha, look so-and-so is a pedo!"
> The article by his first wife came out around that time too which sure you could have just dismissed as pure fabrication. But already by then there was enough evidence aligned with it that it was wholly credible.
Can you link that article, or at least give a more specific cite?
> I ask that you read his words and connect the dots.
Can you spell it out more clearly, since I don't have enough time to pour over Elon Musk's words to repeat your analysis right now?
> At the time I though "pedo diver" was more throwing around stereotypes about Thailand and the kinds of people who travel there
You removed all the context. He replied to a professional diver, who dismissed Elon's useless submarine idea, with the genius retort that he was just a pedo guy. If that context doesn't change your view, then you must be fun at parties where it's fine to call people pedo if they have technical oppositions to your ideas.
I know that context, and it makes it sound more like bullying behavior to me, not pizzagate conspiracy stuff.
> If that context doesn't change your view, then you must be fun at parties where it's fine to call people pedo if they have technical oppositions to your ideas.
I think you totally misread my point and my view of his behavior.
I think there's enough of a pattern on the alt-right at this point to disregard joking.
If a comment gets too much blowback: oh, I was just joking.
If it's popular and/or doesn't get blowback: I was absolutely serious.
> I think there's enough of a pattern on the alt-right at this point to disregard joking.
I don't think Musk was joking with the pedo comment. I think we was being an asshole and a bully. He might have claimed to have been joking in his legal defense, but I think that was a lie.
But I don't think his comment has anything to do with pizzagate.
The "joking" in this case would be just being an asshole. The crazy, if there's not too much blowback, would be actually believing in pedophile conspiracies.
Speaking of COVID. There is a weird story about Musk betting $1 million dollars on low death cases of COVID against his former friend Sam Harris.
After Elon was spectacularly wrong he just canceled the friendship. Also forgot to pay the $1 million dollars.
That seems like the Thiel school of transactional relationships.
- Heads: I win
- Tails: Fuck you, I'm never paying you your winnings
And yes, that's a short-term superior way to monetize one's life.
It also makes one an asshole to everyone around them.
Excluding SuperPACs, Musk's political contributions are public. Like most of the UHNW types, he donates to both political parties. But going back to pre-Tesla days Musk has NEVER donated more to the Democrats than the Republicans. In fact, he usually donates at about a ratio of 10:1 towards Republicans.
Musk isn't interested in liberal/ecological/whatever agendas and never has been, it's a means to an end. Even his libertarian bent... go on shows/podcasts and smoke weed because hey, he's a libertarian. But work at Tesla? Better piss clean or you're fired.
> there definitely is an opportunity for another company to come in and position themselves as quality electric vehicles without the politics.
Nissan Renault Hyundai Kia MG BYD
Honestly, there is no "opportunity" for an incumbent alternative to step in here, there are literal dozens of alternatives available right now for every taste and preference, sans any of the fascist political connotations.
> That's what happens when a CEO associates themselves tightly with their brand and then publicly takes extremely polarizing political action that half the voter base considers antithetical to their values.
More generally: this is what happens when someone in power gets so arrogant they totally lose sight about what they can and can't do, and what the consequences of their actions will be.
I'm reminded of this (about Musk), which is probably the root cause of his arrogance: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/02/07/opinion/ezra-klein-podcas...:
> He has people around him who are just enablers. All these Silicon Valley people do. All his minions. And they are minions — they’re all lesser than he is in some fashion, and they all look up to him. They’re typically younger. They laugh at his jokes. Sometimes when he apologizes for a joke, which is not very often, he’ll say that the people around him thought it was funny.
This is by far the most believable explanation I've heard.
> [...] and then publicly takes extremely polarizing political action that half the voter base considers antithetical to their values.
It's worse than that. A significant fraction of the half that doesn't consider his political actions antithetical to their values consider EVs antithetical to their values.
There still remains substantial value destruction ahead of us.
Half, or more, of their Total Addressable Market, even.
Note that Rivian deliveries (numbers came out today also) fell much more, percentagewise. Also worth pondering the scale.
https://www.cnbc.com/2025/04/02/rivian-reports-fall-in-first...
> Rivian reported a 36% decline in first-quarter deliveries on Wednesday, as the electric-vehicle maker grapples with weak demand, sending its shares down more than 2% at the open.
> The company delivered 8,640 vehicles in the quarter ended March 31, down from 13,588 a year earlier. The deliveries, however, exceeded analysts’ average estimate of 8,200, according to Visible Alpha.
Meanwhile...
> General Motors' sales rose 17% in the first quarter of 2025
> Electric vehicle sales nearly doubled in the quarter, rising 94% to 31,887, making GM the second-largest seller of electric vehicles in the U.S. behind Tesla.
Of course GM still sells way fewer (EDIT: electric) cars than Tesla!
(But the gap is closing.)
> Toyota Motor North America (TMNA) today reported March 2025 U.S. sales of 231,335 vehicles, up 7.7 percent on a volume basis and up 11.8 percent on a daily selling rate (DSR) basis versus March 2024.
> Sales of electrified vehicles for the first quarter totaled 288,796, up 39.6 percent on a volume basis and up 43.3 percent on a DSR basis representing 50.6 percent of total sales volume.
(That includes hybrids, which they sell a lot of.)
> Of course GM still sells way fewer cars than Tesla!
GM sells more cars than Tesla, fewer EVs.
Thanks, fixed!
It is a tough environment for selling $70k+ trucks and SUVs like that. As nice as they are, vehicles like the EV9 and Lightning aren't much worse and are much cheaper.
Didn't lucid sales rise?
https://electrek.co/2025/02/04/lucid-lcid-ev-sales-climb-50-...
The parent is talking about Rivian. Lucid sales are less than 10% of Rivian.
I guess it shows that not literally every electric car maker is suffering, but the applicability to the wider market is limited (Lucid delivered less than 1,000 units total, even after their increase).
Why this got flagged @dang ?
On the other side it's weird that stock of tesla today are up ~5% even with this news.
Been speculated for a while there's, at best, some very proactive Tesla defenders trying to flag any bad news. And at worst someone who made bots to automate such a process. If you're stalking new, you only need a dozen or so flags to trip off the auto-flagging.
Dang hasn't really commented anything supporting nor negating such a theory.
The stock up probably comes more from rumors (nothing explicitly stated except offhand by trump) that Elon is stepping down as head of DOGE. translation: they are making use of some contract terms for Musk to GTFO for both their sakes.
I officially use https://news.ycombinator.com/active as a bookmark now, which is the same as the front page except shows all the posts hidden by the flag squads.
dang is famous for censoring anything even slightly critical of Musk and Tesla.
I don't think it's him just users flagging. But the leaders of YC are huge fanboys and live for his replies and retweets. It's pathetic and embarrassing
Is this primarily because Elon has become an extremely divisive figure? Asking authentically. What other problems in the market might be causing this?
It's likely a number of factors as well -- stagnant products, manufacturing issues, competitive pressure -- but it's hard to deny how omnipresent his figure has been, and that the primary audience for EVs doesn't like his efforts to dismantle the federal government and fire everyone.
Don't forget the spectre of economic uncertainty since nobody knows what anything will cost next week. People hold off on big purchases when they're scared.
That's the main explanation I can see, all other EV car sellers in the US are growing their sales [0] it appears it appears to be specific to Tesla and the main thing that's changed there is Musk and his plunge towards the far right of US politics.
[0] https://cleantechnica.com/2025/04/02/us-carmakers-crush-it-o...
Tesla promises have not materialized. Beyond big promises there hasnt been much as far as new improvements to speak of. Other good, cheaper options hit the market.
Everything else aside, even if Tesla had the best & cheapest EVs, and the people behind it weren't politically abhorrent, I still wouldn't buy one because everything I've heard about their service has been terrible. People are waiting for months to get a part delivered and their car serviced.
More competition in the US market perhaps? A number of my coworkers and friends have purchased new EVs over the past year and all but one of them went with a car other than Tesla. Mostly Polestars, one Lucid.
Chinese EV makers are very popular in Europe and Asia.
I understand a significant portion of Tesla’s sales are in China and there is fierce competition from homegrown firms like BYD.
TFA mentions this but doesn’t get into much detail.
China is actually one of the markets Tesla is performing best at.
As someone who has done biz with China (specifically with Tsinghua University) - the key phrase is "for now". China's strength in economics is to take what works elsewhere, bring it to China to understand what about that product or service works domestically, and then China-fy / reverse engineer what's great about the product, and then get Party backing to scale it in order to beat the foreign competitor. This is their default strategy and no matter how many factories Tesla might have in China now, it's not a certainty that those factories or technologies will be in Tesla's hands in 3-5 years from now.
Specific to the automobile industry, remember what VW's mistake in China was. Long story short: they taught the Chinese how to really build and scale auto production. The Chinese learned, and then shut VW out of the domestic Chinese market once they had a strong Chinese competitor - they were able to scale and produce cars for significantly cheaper.
Bloomberg Business TV said this morning it's structural and has been going on much longer than Elons involvement in politics. They spent at least 10 minutes discussing all the various market pressures, china, europe etc etc. I came away thinking this was going to happen regardless. (but imo he's silly for taking an eye off his business interests).
Nothing is ever as simple as a single cause, but we can be sure thst negative PR is going to impact sales, as it's basically a form of reverse advertising, and unlike most car brands, Tesla relies almost entirely on word-of-mouth rather than traditional ad campaigns. Thus, I would expect an outsized impact from the backlash.
I don't have specific stats in front of me, but:
* Q1 tends to be a weak quarter for automotive sales in general
* EV sales in the US have been slowing
* AFAIK, basically every other EV vendor has shown better numbers for 2025Q1 in interim results.
In other words, while not all of the problems can be laid at Elon's feet, it's pretty clear that he is damaging Tesla's brand.
> EV sales in the US have been slowing
Predominantly because Tesla is slowing, and that's where most EV sales were - see: https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/q4-2024-ev-sales/
> Most major auto manufacturers ended 2024 with record EV sales, with Tesla being a notable exception.
> General Motors increased its sales by 50% to become the second largest EV seller in the US, Ford's EV sales increased 35%,
> and Kia and Hyundai expanded by 74% and 77% respectively.
EV sales excluding Tesla in the US are expected to be up >20% across the board.
Q1 might be weaker but Tesla's numbers are weak compared to their previous Q1 numbers so the general yearly cycle is factored into to these being bad numbers already.
EV sales growth has been slowing.
EV sales have continued to increase.
They also have had no new recent models for years except for the Cybertruck, which is reportedly not selling
I don't think the impact of Elon's politics is seen yet. The infamous salute was in the middle of this quarter.
This is probably because of competition from BYD. The politics will hit starting from the next quarter.
I think there is some undercurrents in economy which means that people are less willing to make reasonably sizable investments like getting new cars. Outlook for many is somewhat bleak.
That's surely a big part of it, but increasing competition in the market for electric vehicles won't help either.
Elon alienated the majority of the side of the political spectrum that actually can afford his vehicles. He then went on throughout Europe backing majority disliked right wing parties and utterly tanks his sales in Europe as well.
This isn't really recoverable. If the board had a spine (they don't), they'd fire him and find a new CEO.
They can't fire him though. Tesla has been a meme stock for years already precisely because of him, and if Elon was out of the picture, it'd drop massively in value.
The board won't do that because Tesla is also overvalued because of Musk to begin with.
Is there evidence that left wingers tend to be more as affluent than right wingers? Genuinely asking.
Yes. Highly educated people tend to the left, and education is highly correlated to income.
But both correlations reverse after some level of wealth.
Even absent the income differences the main market has been the left in the US and the US right has been explicitly anti-EV for years.
> Is there evidence that left wingers tend to be more as affluent than right wingers? Genuinely asking.
Yes, just read the articles about the Democrats losing the working class. There's lot of evidence and analysis in them on your very question.
IIRC, the Democrats have been tuning more and more into educated, affluent people, and those people have been tuning into liberal positions on culture war issues. These are the people who inhabit the influential positions of the party, and they set the agenda to resonate with themselves (e.g. student loan forgiveness). That caused them to lose sight of the traditional working class, and thus shed working class support.
Not really anything dramatically lopsided, but potentially the opposite of their assertion: https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2024/04/09/partisanship...
I can't find a source right now but I think there's some lines to draw between jobs we consider "prestigious" and party affiliation but it's not the same line to draw with wealth, i.e. a professor is considered a more prestigious role than a plumber even though the plumber likely makes more.
Six of one and half a dozen of the other?
Other companies now have decent EV offerings.
Of course, if you're conspiratorially minded, you could posit that he's taking such polarizing positions especially against the demographic more likely to purchase EVs in order to give an excuse as to why Tesla sales are down.
But I'm willing to accept that it's a bit of both. Rivian and others now have comparable EVs and Elon's been a bit of a dick.
That's a big part of it, but there's also been a general pullback from EVs. Many factors have influenced that, including the phasing out of early adopter tax credits (generally happening even before Trump but accelerating now), difficulties obtaining service, fears about range and battery pack longevity, and generally higher price than gas or hybrid alternatives.
There is no general pullback from EVs in the EU, where fleet emmission rules heavily favor EVs. Tesla sales fell heavily.
Consumers wanting a Tesla but not buying one because of the real chance it gets vandalized or destroyed by angsty juvenile Redditors who think destroying peoples property is fine because the owner has insurance.
When powerful people start to out themselves as nazis, create concentration camps, extinguish due process, and eliminate free speech, dismissing protests as "juvenile" starts to sound quite bad.
Vandalizing random peoples vehicles in parking lots because you dislike the CEO of the manufacturer is not a protest, it’s juvenile behaviour.
You'd have a point if it was some mid issue with several valid points of view. But several people have good reason to fight for their lives against the US government right now, and this is one of their weapons.
If you want people to act calmly, don't make them desperate.
Keying the car of some schoolteacher in a grocery store parking lot because you’re mad at Elon isn’t fighting for your life, it’s being a childish asshole. The fact that you can’t see that suggests you are as well.
Dude, you are lucky that this seems to be somewhat effective. The hope is that this turns out to be extremely effective, because nobody will like it if people are forced to fight the normal way.
Yeah, god help us if the iron-deficient terminally online Redditors in their 20s with anxiety disorders and a fear of guns decide to rise up.
you're very stuck with this idea that anyone who disagrees with your must be a terminally online redditor. But at the same time you mock those people for their inability to get outside. Which is needed for vandalism. Which is it?
I'll just say not to cast stones in a glass house.
This is largely due to the Model Y refresh. March numbers are pretty strong, even in Europe. Not that I support his behavior, especially his position on Ukraine, but facts are facts.
If Tesla was production constrained, this would be significant. ~3 weeks less production in a quarter is a lot.
However, Tesla is not production constrained. There is essentially no delivery backlog for the new Model Y; essentially everybody that wanted one got one. Being able to make more cars in the quarter wouldn't have significantly affected deliveries.
Despite an upcharge, there was virtually no inventory and the regular priced versions won't launch until tomorrow (probably). Lots of people with orders weren't able to take delivery in March. Model Y was clearly supply constrained for the quarter.
The facts are that Tesla sales dropped even more in Europe than they did in the U.S. even after the Model Y refresh hit local markets.
I can't find the March numbers, care to share a source?
I think the older Model Ys with "normal" headlights were nicer looking, and they had turn signal and drive-select stalks.
At a normal company, as CEO, Elon's behavior and performance would get him removed the the board. I suspect it will eventually. He's on a real Howard Hughes trajectory for loss of sanity. It's kind of sad really.
The board? You mean his childhood friend, his accountant, his brother, and his divorce lawyer? :-)
"As Tesla tanks, Musk’s hand-picked board chair is doing just fine" - https://www.reuters.com/investigations/tesla-tanks-musks-han...
"Elon Musk's Divorce Lawyer Is His General Counsel at Tesla" - https://www.findlaw.com/legalblogs/in-house/elon-musks-divor...
Well even his family is pulling out: https://www.investors.com/news/tesla-stock-elon-musk-brother...
I get why people think this, but the comments of the protestors make it clear that this wouldn't help. They'd keep going for as long as he's a shareholder, as the intent is to personally hurt his financial returns.
Mere removal from the company doesn't change their stated objections.
I think he's majority shareholder or something, so that's hard to do. I think we'll simply see more top investors start to cash out over the year so they can profit before they make any big statements.
>The US group, led by Elon Musk, delivered 336,681 cars in the first quarter, far fewer than the 390,000 forecast by analysts and the 387,000 it delivered in the same period last year.
That's a 13% decline in sales. They delivered 3740 cars per day (assuming 90 days in quarter), instead of the 4300/day they delivered last year or the 4333/day they forecast.
gift link?
In the 1920s or '30s Henry Ford stopped or at least slowed with the antisemitic bile that he was spewing in his newspaper The Dearborn Independent, which put Hitler's Mein Kampf to shame and earned him the only favourable American mention in Hitler's book, because it was impacting sales of his cars. The question is whether the same might be the case for Musk, but his wealth seems decoupled from his cars, so it's not going to happen.
I'll remind only leftist media calls him nazi and he's been persecuted by "antifa" for at least a decade.
If you fail to see there's massive amount of propaganda then I'm sorry for you.
I see you subscribe to the "roman salute" huh? I guess my eyes are propoganda if we're in 1984 being told to not believe what we view.
He never rebuked it and in fact doubled down with jokes. So I'll call a spade a spade unless something changes.
He actually did in Rogans podcast. But also, why should he rebuke ridiculous claims?
And once again, he has been persecuted by antifa basically forever.
To be clear, when someone does a nazi salute twice at the world's biggest political rally and people call it a nazi salute, that is persecution?
Yes, it is persecution to single out something/someone with no context...
At least you could focus on Trumps power grab. Instead you are regurgitating propaganda.
The context was that he gave a nazi salute twice. I'm linking literal video of the event side by side with nazis and hitler doing the exact motion. This isn't propaganda, it is reality that you can witness for yourself.
Who are the nazi's he is saluting to? Do you have any critical thinking?
Is this what you're moving on to now? That it can't be a nazi salute because he needs to salute someone, even though it is identical to hitler doing it on stage?
You didn't even back up your other points. You said it was propaganda and "persecution"!, but after a comparison video that anyone can see you back off those claims and gish gallop on to something else. Are you admitting that those are ridiculous?
You didn't give any evidence that they are true and just moved on to something more ridiculous and tried to combine it with an insult. It's amazing that you would bring up 'critical thinking' while never giving a shred of evidence to back up your claims.
Sorry, but onus of evidence is on you. You are trying to manufacture an agenda. Who are the nazis?
P.S. where’s your scrutiny for every other politician who made a salute.
P.P.S. Elon’s “mistake” was supporting AfD who is often smeared with nazi’s, because it’s an easy target. It’s a far right party and nazis are super illegal in Germany.
Are you seriously asking for 'evidence' of a nazi salute after witnessing it on video side by side with it being identical to hitler?
You made all sort of claims about persecution and instead of giving any sort of evidence you seriously say 'the onus is on you'.
People who call themselves nazis say it was a nazi salute. It is identical to hitler. There is no defense, because if there was, someone would have told you what to say and you would have repeated it here.
Honestly you sound like a robot.