We're accelerating the Android XR platform with a new agreement with HTC
blog.googleAgain?
Seeing HTC do this makes me sad. They will get burnt by Google again.
HTC was an amazing technological frontrunner for Android phones.
The team got absorbed by Google.
They had people working on VR/XR.
That team got absorbed by Google too.
Now, the VR team is getting absorbed again.
Google tried this already - and failed. And as someone who held multiple workshops educating people to use Google's AR/VR tech, I see nothing but a barely-useful Android fork coming out of this that will be used for cheap VR/AR headsets.
So to recap:
- There was the AR (https://developers.google.com/ar)
- There was the VR (https://developers.google.com/vr)
- There was Google cardboard
- There was Google Glass.
All of these projects were:
- Early to the market
- Had a huge advantage over competition
- Were (relatively) simple to build on/use
All of these projects ended up abandoned as the responsible person probably got promoted and moved on, leaving them to die. Now, when the competition stepped up their game and is gaining some serious ground in the field (META) it's someone else's turn to get their big promotion by releasing a half-assed product that they will forget about in a year.
In the end, all that this signals to me is to be bullish on Meta, as their VR play seems to be sticky enough to draw out the competitors.
HTC's standalone VR headsets already run Android as their OS. They could've gone with Windows, had Microsoft not shut down their mixed reality ambitions last year.
It's not like Apple is going to open their VR iOS software (whatever it's called) and Facebook won't just give them their Quest OS either. At the moment, their choices are "build a custom OS" or "continue using the existing Android OS". And to be honest, I doubt HTC will be able to pull off a new OS/Linux distro to run VR on either.
HTC also has its own Windows VR game app store (Viveport), that they seem to have put a hell of a lot of effort into, but it's relatively small in active userbase compared to Steam and Quest.
They seem to be trying to out-compete the 2019 Valve Index with several newer products that on paper add incrementally so many additional features that they've left the index in the dust, but they manage to keep flopping on the basics - comfort, FOV, speaker and microphone quality, and last I tried it (a couple years ago to be fair), their frame reprojection was warpy and stuttery compared to Index's very impressive reprojection, when the rendering FPS drops below the headset refresh rate.
If they could have just refined and polished the fundamentals, they could start eating the Index's lunch, and there's a large number of people still buying the Index. And valve would still benefit from that because most people will probably use steamVR. The steamVR market is not small, but it'll get even bigger when Valve release an Index 2, or someone else releases something that nails the basics and uses 5-year-newer tech.
Heck, Google Cardboard was a thing 10ish years ago, and it was incredible. If they instead made a ~$50, cheap-ish but comfortable headset, with lenses and a strap and slot for dropping in and securing a phone, so that users don't need to keep holding their phone on their face, we could have had everyday MR back then. Plus, now we have wide FOV cameras on the phones, which should enable usable gesture interaction with your hands in front of you, just not something as intense as the vision pro or controllerless quest 3 where there's 6 cameras looking everywhere to track your hands.
"If they instead made a ~$50, cheap-ish but comfortable headset, with lenses and a strap and slot for dropping in and securing a phone"
Isn't this literally the Google Daydream? Although it was priced around $100 by what I remember
Android will almost definitely be the base OS for all standalone headsets that aren't made by Apple - the question is which layer and associated ecosystem to use on top of Android - Google, Meta - or go it alone.
(OpenXR abstracts away some of this - but not enough)
Meta is starting to license HorizonOS to other companies.
They still have the problem of no Google Playstore apps. And it doesn't look like Google and Meta are coming to an agreement anytime soon
I have been using Quest for the past 3 years. Not once did I miss anything from the Play Store (as a daily Android user). You can go to Quest subreddit or other VR forums and find that most people think the same as me.
And that is exactly what Meta wanted. They don't want to rely on Play Store, and they managed to ship tens of millions of devices without it.
In an AMA last year Bosworth said that they offered Google to have flat apps on the Quest but they wanted to limit it to that and not allow VR apps AFAIK ( they are making the money with the VR apps, so they most likely won't give that market away ) and Google wasn't interested.
For gaming it's not an issue but if they ever want to sell people on the idea of it being used for productivity, that flat android app market would be a big factor. They have recently started their own toolkit to build/convert regular android apps to HorizonOS so they maybe hope to beat Google at their own game, but we'll see how that turns out
My hot take: productivity on VR is not and will never be a thing, at least in the current heavy, bulky form. There won't be more than a few hardcore enthusiasts who can make use of it. It is made up by Mark Zuckerberg and Tim Cook.
VR and watching videos, on the other hand, are real use cases, just like how people are using them today.
I don't really disagree, although I did try out the GodotEngine editor on the Quest with just a small bluetooth keyboard [1] and that experience was actually more than just acceptable. Full disclaimer, I have not repeated that since because I haven't felt the urge to.
But where productivity really makes sense are the pure glasses ( like XREAL One, Viture, etc. ). Ever since I tried those I do want that much more than productivity in a headset.
They really do want play store and offered them zero fees. But it would be a limited one that couldn't sell full VR apps, mostly bring 2d and 2d with system rendered 3d elements to their platform, and meta keeping the rest to themselves.
Have they really sold tens of millions of devices? That's better than I thought it was doing.
Current estimates are around 30M but I think that was before this Christmas period
That is far more than I expected. Although my mental model for VR is that Community episode[0], which is perhaps not a great benchmark.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawnmower_Maintenance_and_Post...
And Quest runs an AOSP fork (Android without the TM).
The question isn't what OS will be dominant - the question is will Google manage to fumble this again and what will happen to the users, companies and developers that decided to rely on the ecosystem.
I think it is more like AOSP without Java, what Brillo was supposed to be, before being replaced by the short lived Android Things.
At least based on occasional remarks from Carmack when he was still there.
I believe that Apple's platform is called visionOS
Tango and Filament as well, remember those.
This kind of stuff, alongside the way Java updates languish, or the whole Kotlin vs Java discussions, or how nowadays most of those efforts are code samples dumped on Github with NDK only APIs, kind of made me lose interest.
AFAIK, the press says "some of the HTC VIVE engineering team to Google,", so they could still develop VR products with the remaining team.
They also some products for 5G O-RAN and VR deploy solutions. But can those keep a big company running?
Honestly my read of this is that they just need some Dev Kits and an in with manufacturers. Their goal is to sell software services (which is WIP for release), and they need reference hardware for development.
They have partners via Samsung to make hardware already who is prepping to release a Vision Pro clone. HTC hardware is bulky and ugly, and more expensive for what you get compared to Meta’s products. Google would never release that as a consumer product.
So.. Meta has Meta Horizon OS, which feels quite inaccessible to non-corpos AFAIK, and now we have Android XR. Is it more accessible? I was working with Razer back in the day (as a third party contributor, not part of the team) for Razer OSVR and that was very exciting. They shut that down though.
So, what I'm asking is, could someone do the equivalent of the Open Source Laptop[1] but for XR?
We are currently trying to hack together something akin to what the AR glasses like Meta Orion and Snap Spectacles are trying to be in the future, but with tech that is available today, and by using a more limited use case of fitness.
What we are aiming for is a general compute puck + display glasses + added 6dof tracking.
In this video we tried the Nintendo Switch as the compute plus self tracked HTC Vive Ultimate trackers for the head tracking plus Viture Pro XR glasses: https://youtube.com/shorts/U4vhEPQw-Uo
The Nintendo Switch was more a "can we do it" rather than a "that's what we should do" but it shows the overall idea
Such an awesome project, thanks for sharing!
It is really fun experimenting in that space and it has completely sold me on the future of optical AR glasses, even though our current product is fully focused on VR/Passthrough MR
There are several open XR projects, here is one: https://gatlee21.github.io/TritonProject-Guide/
Wow, thank you, looks better than I expected!
Update: ah, the source code is not really open: > For full access to the Github repository please screenshot a receipt of your purchase along with your Github email and username and email it to ...
Also unsure if it's standalone or wired because it mentions it requires a launcher from Windows...
Still, cool.
I've been waiting for some XR glasses with a VR level FOV. Really liked the Hololens 2, passthrough sucks by comparison. I'm probably going to stick to commercial projects that tend to be more polished. (had a bad experience with framework, which is halfway between). I've pre-ordered the Visor in the meantime and check https://vr-compare.com/ar every few months to see what new AR devices might be out there
Here's another project with code apparently living on various branches: https://github.com/egemenertugrul/Wisor
The announcement is a bit lacking in detail. What are they actually announcing here beyond doing something related to XR?
I talked to some IOS developers recently doing an app with some AR features. They were doing things with lidar and indoor maps on the iphone. I asked them if they were working on an Android version as well (I have a pixel 6 phone) and they told me that they tried but that the Android APIs are a bit limited for the types of things they were trying to do. Also, there don't seem to be a lot of Android phones with lidar.
It seems Google does have some catching up to do here.
Google are launching a version of Android specifically tailored for XR applications. A preview version of the SDK is available now. The first hardware is expected to launch later this year, with devices announced by Samsung and Sony.
Google have paid HTC $250m in exchange for technology licensing and an unspecified number of staff. It's a deal that's vaguely reminiscent of the 2017 deal, which saw Google acquihire around 2,000 HTC staff who had been involved in hardware development on Pixel. Google have been working on their own XR hardware under Project Astra, but it's unclear if there's a firm plan to bring that to market.
Qualcomm is also telling devs who have been targeting the Spaces SDK to move to Android XR
The Visor is also coming out this year and the fan base believes they will eventually target Android XR (currently they target Spaces)
The announcement is similar to Google acquired Android Inc, which helps them join smart phone war. Or acquire nest for smart home Eco-system. I guess they want to accelerate the development of Android XR.
I got burned out multiple times by Google's product discontinuation (Tango, Stadia, Glass)
Not going to jump into this anytime soon.
I can’t wait for really good AR glasses that allow for reading text in any language and additional insights to the real world while preserving privacy and don’t look like a crap at the same time
Has anyone found any real use for VR?
HL Alyx notwithstanding
Yes, our company [1] is profitable providing a B2B XR meeting platform used by various heavy industries for different internal and external use cases including product design, high-impact sales and training.
We're in Oil & Gas, Healthcare and Higher Ed amongst others and currently support Quest, HoloLens and Magic Leap.
We (and loads of competitors) are growing at a steady pace, the numbers probably wouldn't excite a VC associate, but there's more to life and business than that.
There is a lot of usage: Video games, workout, 3D modeling, adult content, ... But most of them are pretty niche. Maybe they will one day explode to the mainstream, but, even as a VR enthusiast, I doubt it will happen as long as you have to strap a weird looking bulky machine on your face.
> strap a weird looking bulky machine on your face.
i think the hardware people should go all in, a develop a full body suit, may be even encase it in a shell which could suspend you (for free walking, turning etc), and make VR truly immersive. Could even use sonic/air pressure to produce haptic feedback on the body to simulate touch.
Yes I game in it all the time. Also it's great for VR porn. And for reading books in bed. Not having to hold up a device. And I like doing teams meetings in VR even though Microsoft Mesh is still very lacking compared to competing products like Arthur.
HL Alyx notwithstanding, BeatSaber is a good workout.
Second this, VR is perfect for workouts.
I'd also recommend checking out Sprint Vector if you have a decent PC for PCVR (via Steam Link) - I was fully drenched in sweat after a 30 min gameplay session. Gorilla Tag is also nice for workouts while being fun, no PC needed.
> Second this, VR is perfect for workouts.
So is the real world.
You might be under a misconception here. The workout is happening with the real body in the real world. "VR" is just a medium of choice for extra fun and motivation, like playing a game.
The outside view of VR workouts is usually the "play a game, workout by accident" appeal.
Although I believe it's usually the other way around. People play games where they are moving quite a lot and afterwards realize that they are actual getting exhausted. And then they realize that they didn't really notice that exhaustion while doing the actual movement ( focus on the game, outside world mostly blocked off ) so the thinking is "wow I can do workouts without having to dread them and without being pulled away by other distractions, and all that from my living room"
There are already studies that show people feel less exhaustion while doing a VR Workout compared to a classic workout when done at the same intensity
The "real world" isn't very real either. It's all built environment, contrived. Even the countryside is largely man-made (farms, roads, paths, save for the occasional old growth forest).
Says to me you have never tried it.
Try it once and come back to update your comments.
Is this a joke? XD
Flight simulators
Those really set off vertigo for me. Visual perception of rotation not matching the inner ear's perception of movement.
And racing sims. Saves me money when I don't have to warm up as much before going to track days.
Media consumption on airplanes.
Headsets are too heavy. Compute and battery needs to be somewhere else.
AR is better than VR. Passthrough with overlay opens up lots of interesting opportunities for AI learning about mechanical tasks, and AI feedback about what you're doing.
Boxing.
I love boxing, but having proper sparrings multiple times a week is insanely hard on the body and recovery.
Putting on my Quest 3 lets me enjoy a boxing match or two without any damage to my body and need for recovery.
I am biased since we are developing it but fitness is one of the strongest segments in VR, that plus social experiences for the younger generations.
I play a lot of games, work from VR, and am also learning to paint and DJ in VR without the expensive paint/ink/DJ equipment etc.
Immersed app for virtual monitors
Use? Sure.
Profitable use? Not really. At least not at the scale that is really needed long-term...
Isn't like 70% of current VR usage for adult content?
Not on standalone VR, there it's more like Gorilla Tag, Horizon Worlds, etc.
Beat Saber sounds like a more accurate contender for the largest use
Why, though?
Nobody wants yet another state-sponsored corporate data gathering malware "product", especially if its promoting a product that's virtually already discontinued.
If the overnight success of RedNote proves anything, it's that actually quite a lot of people want that.
I think that's a mix of defiance and marketing - "you ban the thing I like, I'm going to the other thing you don't want me to use"
everything is a state-sponsored corporate data gathering malware "product"
*almost (99,9% is not by count, 10% is not by market cap)
everything is a state-sponsored corporate data gathering malware "product" you don't even have to cross either side be guilty by association and see what happens :)
Yes, and the market is saturated. We don't need yet another one.
States are somebody.
They show a demo on the street. Every person on the street at any street in the world analysed on real time. Imagine the surveillance possibilities.
What, in your mind, is the "product" here? The one that's been discontinued?
HTC Vive as a SteamVR/PC hardware device. Possibly the name will live on as something else, but it's probably not going to be the same category as the current product