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Apple, please don’t take all of the buttons away

theverge.com

56 points by njacobs5074 3 years ago · 93 comments

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delecti 3 years ago

I've seen enough people be astonished to learn that their laptop's touchpad is just using haptic trickery to simulate a button that I think their anecdata really just isn't representative. I've seen people who know that it's using haptic trickery use the depth rod of a set of calipers because they just don't believe it.

I think that a poorly engineered power button (one which can become inoperative if the OS freezes) is a terrible idea, but the mere concept of haptic buttons has been pretty well proven.

And I say that as an Apple critic. I've had enough power buttons fail on Android phones that this would actually add a point to the "pros" column (though still not enough to outweigh the "cons" column).

  • mrexroad 3 years ago

    Don’t forget that the “home button” on iPhone has simply been a finger print sensor with a haptic response since iPhone 7; no physical travel when pressed.

  • solarkraft 3 years ago

    The touchpad's feedback is implemented very low in the firmware, so it almost never fails to respond. The device needs to be catastrophically out of power or catastrophically locked up. Both states are not easy to achieve.

    • endemic 3 years ago

      Anecdotally, it’s happened to me multiple times. A good indicator of when the machine needs a hard power cycle.

    • f1shy 3 years ago

      I had it 2 times in 7 years os continuous use of the Macbook. It is very rare indeed.

      • exallocatepool2 3 years ago

        saw your comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34164748 and now I'm curious which manufacturer it is? is it a manufacturer of expensive german cars?

        • f1shy 3 years ago

          I would like to keep that not public, I really fear they suing me.

          I know many people working in car manufacturers. There the situation is much much worst, as they do not develop, but do the "specification" -- I see a big inclination to think that "doing" anything is pretty easy, what is really difficult is "specify" it.

          One friend of mine works in such a company, and, just as example, they specified that all internal communication in the car must be IPv6 (about 10 nodes, so no need for a lot of addresses) -- Maybe they think "more modern, more better". The problem is, the whole internal communication is CAN over IP, meaning 99% of packets are 8 bytes payload, so using IPv6 adds terrible overhead. To the outside world IPv4 was specified, for "compatibility". The interfaces where specified with 2 to 10 Gbps, to "keep latencies low".

          More interesting are the discussions of the need of PTP over NTP. Because for some reason I hear "NTP 1 second accuracy, PTP 1 nanosecond accuracy" constantly. They nice thing is: other than airbag, injection and ignition, all other things in a car can tolerate with ease 100ms to 300ms latencies. Even breaks con live with little less than 100ms. So there is no real need for PTP... but "more modern must be more good"... :)

  • goosedragons 3 years ago

    I still don't think it feels as good as a real switch, the only benefit is you get a sort of overall meh feeling that works over the whole trackpad surface vs. a good click that only works well at the bottom. This is an okay trade on a giant trackpad but for a tiny button it's not great. It was even more obvious on haptic home buttons that it's not quite right.

  • robocat 3 years ago

    > I think that a poorly engineered power button (one which can become inoperative if the OS freezes) is a terrible idea

    And a standard “clicky” button that physically fails after a few years use is better? I have seen more than one old iPhone with the accessibility icon on screen, because the physical hardware of the button has failed. Even worse: buttons that go intermittent failure on you - grrrrr.

    Disclaimer: I dislike the haptic home button on my SE 2022, so I am somewhat on both sides of the argument. Good engineering is good compromises.

izacus 3 years ago

I'm sure they'll do it since it saves money.

I had a horrible time teaching my grandparents to use the gesture navigation on their new iPad (they still hate it, they still get regularly anxious because they can't reliably make the "home" gesture instead of clear feedback of a hardware button and there's many gestures they accidentally trigger which cannot be disabled in A11y or MDM settings) - but they saved money and made it cool.

It'll be the same with phones as it is with cars - it's cheaper to provide shitty experience. And it's not like you can go anywhere, Apple owns your data and ecosystem now. So we'll just make do with crappier things to allow the manufacturer to extract more money, like we have to make do with crappier products on other markets.

  • alwillis 3 years ago

    > I'm sure they'll do it since it saves money.

    It’s not about money—we’re talking about pennies here. The Pro series iPhones start at $999.

    It’s always been an Apple thing to get rid of as many buttons, ports and cables as possible.

    Unlike other smartphones, the iPhone never had a physical keyboard or SD card slots. In the US, new iPhones no longer have SIM slots, only eSIM.

    So we shouldn’t be surprised that they may remove the physical buttons—but it should also mean additional functionality of some kind.

    • izacus 3 years ago

      When we're talking about saving money on hardware it's not just the cents on a part that matter - manufacturing time and complexity (do we need a robot for the button? a hole drilled? will it fail? does it has to be repairable? do we need an additional employee on a manufacturing line to install those buttons?) is a bigger weight than just the part itself.

      And companies will absolutely build a crappier product for you to save on manufacturing time. You're talking about a company that led the field by removing a headphone jack to make their manufacturing easier.

    • jareklupinski 3 years ago

      assuming this number is true: 95 million + iphone 14 units https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-orders-95-million-iphone...

      95 million * a few pennies is still $950,000 at least.

      As long as that number is more than the salary of the person who was hired to make that button go away, in Apple's eyes that's good news.

      You just have to repeat this mentality over the entire ecosystem to get to a trillion: a button removed here, a port removed there, year after year...

      • alwillis 3 years ago

        > 95 million * a few pennies is still $950,000 at least. As long as that number is more than the salary of the person who was hired to make that button go away, in Apple's eyes that's good news.

        While I appreciate how pedantic HNers can be, it’s meaningless because that’s not how Apple works.

        Nobody at Apple is incentivized to shave pennies off the production cost of an iPhone.

        This should be obvious in a world with plastic phones with off the shelf, generic components.

        A multi-trillion dollar marketcap company doesn’t invest several billion dollars to create their own custom silicon to then change the design of their most profitable product to save a few insignificant cents.

        Let’s be real here.

  • samwillis 3 years ago

    I'm not sure a touch sensitive button is a lower cost component than a physical button, you need an IC to drive a touch button. I can't see this being driven by cost savings.

    I'm not even convinced there would be a cost saving when you take into account buttons failing and needing to be replaced.

    Reducing the number of buttons and replacing them with on screen-only (say move to on screen-only volume) would be a clear cost saving. But also a massive UX disaster that they wouldn't do.

    • bsder 3 years ago

      Removing anything "mechanical" is a huge cost saver and a massive reliability improver.

      Those buttons require special drilling and machining steps on the case. Removing those speeds up the production of cases by a lot which equals cost.

      Mechanical switches are way more expensive than huge areas of silicon chip. It's not even close.

      Finally, solid-state touch sensitive stuff effectively never fails. It never gets dirty. It never wears out.

      Does it have Heisenbugs and screwball failure modes? Oh, yeah. I imagine triggering them with gloves on will be a nightmare, for example.

      But, it's okay, people will wear special Apple gloves in order to use the advanced feature of their new phone. When something on an iPhone fails, it's obviously always the fault of the end user, no?

      • samwillis 3 years ago

        I'm still not convinced, back when I worked in product development (I was a product design engineer) edge mounted micro switches designed for this use case were dirt cheep, rated to IP 6x (no dust ingress) and hundreds of thousands of presses.

        There would still be side operations during machining of the case to make the raised profile (I assume there still will be one you can feel). And if anything that means more waste material. That or they still have an insert.

        Maybe at Apple scale they can be similar in cost, but I don't believe there is a significant cost saving at all.

  • WildGreenLeave 3 years ago

    I fully agree with you for 100%. Personally, I don't mind the home gesture and although I sometimes get annoyed by weird gestures that I never knew I can deal with it.

    But, seeing my parents get anxious with their new ipad because they cannot reliably go back to the home screen, their "safe" environment, it makes me sad.

    A pro tip from your fellow young(er) person, enable AssistiveTouch [0] and at least give them an obvious button to press. My parents are very happy with it.

    0: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202658

    • izacus 3 years ago

      Assistive Touch is a bandaid I enabled, but it didn't give them the same piece of mind as a hardware button because it's "yet another thing on screen" they need to identify out of the clutter.

  • crazygringo 3 years ago

    > I'm sure they'll do it since it saves money.

    Probably it doesn't actually. I assume the reason is actually waterproofing and one less physical thing to wear out or break -- so it's for reliability. It probably actually costs more to do, but saves the user money in repairs/replacement.

  • danhor 3 years ago

    I really like the way android did it. Retaining old touch screen buttons as a default and for those who want it, but also having the opiton of switching to a sleek new gesture-based way to navigate (taking less screen space), with both being supported.

    But that's probably not an option for apple.

  • charlus 3 years ago

    I don't have an iPad, but assistive touch might help your grandparents.

  • mrtksn 3 years ago

    Have you tried the accessibility features? I see many people use soft home button that float on the screen because they find it convenient.

  • mamcx 3 years ago

    Wait... Exist a "home" gesture????

    Checking...

    Oh!!!!

    ---

    I move to a iPhone 13 mini from iPhone SE 1st and the lack of a home button is the singles most stupid thing in the world....

    • dagmx 3 years ago

      How have you been using your phone without knowing the home gesture? It’s the only way to multitask or exit apps or unlock your phone

      • mamcx 3 years ago

        With the on-screen button.

        • dagmx 3 years ago

          But you said you moved to an iPhone 13. There’s no button on that one. Surely you didn’t just discover the gesture from this thread as your previous comment suggested?

  • conradev 3 years ago

    It does save money, but it saves everyone money. Every part that moves is a part that has a fixed lifetime.

    Replacing the home button was exceedingly common back when it was a button, and people had to either get a new phone or pay to have it fixed when it broke.

    This was especially the case for the MacBook trackpad before it was made solid-state as well. That was not a cheap component to fix.

    • kaba0 3 years ago

      Iphone/ipad’s buttons have been static for a long time, they just vibrate imitating a physical touch.

  • lozenge 3 years ago

    Did you check the accessibility features?

morsch 3 years ago

The extra physical button on my Samsung S10 is my favorite thing about it. Ordinarily it launches Samsung's voice assistant, which naturally is completely pointless, but you can patch it to do whatever you want. I've set mine to play pause on long press, toggle the flashlight on double press and act as a secondary lock button. I toggle podcast playback without taking my phone out of my pocket dozens of times a day, through the fabric even, which I imagine is difficult with a capacitative button.

I wish every phone had at least four custom physical buttons, two for each side.

crazygringo 3 years ago

Haptic buttons are great. The Home button on my iPhone SE, the click on my MacBook trackpad -- zero issues. The click on my AirPods Pro stem too.

And the obvious benefit here is better waterproofing and one less physical mechanism to break.

I really don't understand the author's complaint. I think this ship sailed years ago and it's proven to be a non-issue.

  • abledon 3 years ago

    reason I still use my IphoneSE version 1. still has the actual button on the front face. Hoping they release another model in the next 3-4 years with an actual front-facing button

    • karmelapple 3 years ago

      I don’t quite follow - what is the reason? That you wish there was a haptic home button? iPhones never had haptic buttons on the front face - only real physical press buttons.

      • batmanthehorse 3 years ago

        That’s not true. Starting with iPhone 7 the front home button is haptic solid state. It feels better than the old one and breaks less.

        For this reason, I’m totally fine with them doing the same for volume buttons. Also feels great on the AirPod pros

        • karmelapple 3 years ago

          I am embarrassed - thanks for the gentle correction.

          I jumped straight from an iPhone 6S to an iPhone XS, so I never got those... whoops!

        • archagon 3 years ago

          It does not feel better to me.

      • alphabettsy 3 years ago

        iPhones had haptics home buttons from iPhone 7 and up, so if you’ve used even an old iPhone at this point it wasn’t a “real” button. Same as the MacBook trackpads, people can’t tell the difference.

        • as_bntd 3 years ago

          I have an iPhone 6 and a SE (2020) and I can tell the difference. The SE feels like my Mac's (2020) touchpad.

        • karmelapple 3 years ago

          Wow - I had no idea! Thanks for posting the correction.

jmyeet 3 years ago

I still miss the home button on the iPhone. I know it takes up what otherwise would be screen space. I know it's been years. But the UX of what we have now is so much worse.

Touch ID is significantly better than Face ID. Way less false positives. Way less false failures that force you to enter your passcode. You can use it in the dark. You can use it in your pocket. I ditched my iPad Pro for an iPad Air specifically because it has Touch ID rather than Face ID>

Want to exit the app? Tap the home button. Select an app? Double tap?

What's wrong with swiping up? Where you swipe from varies depending on the orientation of the app. That may not always be obvious. With a photo for example. Is it oriented a way because of the phone's rotation when it was taken or because of the phone's rotation now? The gesture to get to app selection is super awkward (ie swipe up-right-up). It's so awkward.

Why can't apple put Touch ID on the back? Or on the sides? Why can't they have a physical home button (even one of the haptic feedback buttons) on the back?

Losing the home button is such a UX fail.

  • ktosobcy 3 years ago

    100% this.

    I still have last iPhone SE and I love the home button. (it's not my daily driver).

    I also had oneplus 3 with very similar home button and genius fingerprint reader. I was able to unlock my phone with index finger without having to lift it up in any way from eh desk and quickly glimpse on the content.

    no i switched to new Samsung with has optic under display one and its just an utter failure. very often it can't read the fingerprint and... its location is not tahr obvious before slightly lighting the screen.

    with OP3 Or iPhone SE i can find that button without hassle even in the dark.

  • chrisoverzero 3 years ago

    > You can use it in the dark.

    You can use Face ID in the dark.

  • TMWNN 3 years ago

    >Why can't apple put Touch ID on the back? Or on the sides?

    Yes, please!

    iPhone 13 is my first one without Touch ID since 5S back in 2013. I hate Face ID, and the additions within the past year to accommodate masks and glasses only help a little.

    I also have an inexpensive Android phone, a year older than the 13, with a touch ID sensor on the back. Why can't Apple do the same with iPhone?

  • crazygringo 3 years ago

    > Why can't apple put Touch ID... on the sides?

    It already has for certain iPad models, and rumors were it was coming to the iPhone SE 4 but that's delayed now (if not cancelled). But it's likely it will come to whatever budget successor phone Apple reveals next.

eternityforest 3 years ago

I could accept buttonlessness but I see a few issues

1. It will make rugged cases hard to do, probably involving conductive rubber, and extra types of materials add cost. I guess they'll have to have a cutout, and sticking your finger in the touchy side hole might be not be as nice as the designers who probably think caseless phones are a sane idea want it to be.

2. Holding real power buttons for is how you hard power cycle things.

1 can be fixed if people just kind of get used to a shallow hole as the new definition of a button, 2 can't really be fixed unless you want water to accidentally reboot your phone, or your sensing is really amazing.

If they make the sensing good enough, and case designers make it work without compromising ruggedness, I'm fine with it, as long as the implementation is good by the time it comes for us Androiders. But i don't see how unless you're doing some kind of optical sensing or something.

tobyjsullivan 3 years ago

Has anybody noted that 80% of iPhones have a case?[0] For all the comments praising the physical iPhone buttons, when was the last time you actually touched one?

Apple has been building for this reality for years (see: camera hardware that juts out). This is just the next iteration.

And, yes, it sucks to be in the 20% as an Apple customer. They always design for the 80%.

[0] https://www.statista.com/statistics/368627/us-protective-cas...

  • phpisthebest 3 years ago

    I am not an iPhone user but do iPhone cases block the buttons?

    I have always had a case on all my Android phones, and none of them blocked any of the buttons. I use buttons all the time, with a case on my phone.

    • zaroth 3 years ago

      “Cover” is probably what OP meant - not block as in prevent the user from operating. You’re pressing the case, not the button directly.

      So whether there’s a perfectly tuned click response from a physical mechanism or just haptics under the layer of plastic is kind of irrelevant.

    • galleywest200 3 years ago

      I have never seen an iPhone case that blocks the buttons personally, so I am not sure what OP is on about. _Maybe_ an iPad case would do this.

      • batmanthehorse 3 years ago

        I’m using an official Apple iPhone 14 case right now and it covers the buttons with other buttons which will transfer the pressure. You never touch the actual original buttons (but the silence switch is exposed).

nashashmi 3 years ago

The nest thermostat has a model that is capacitive button only. God I hate it. I like the nest thermostat with rotating buttons. But it’s much more money.

This might be a money saving move.

hilbert42 3 years ago

The lack of awareness of ergonomics and the need for good ergonomic design amongst designers of digital equipment and software has gotten so atrociously bad in recent years that it's almost reached crisis point. A huge percentage of e-waste can be put down to bad design simply because users are so fed up and frustrated with equipment that doesn't perform properly or isn't responsive enough that they discard it prematurely. Combine this with the fact that most equipment has built-in obsolescence as part of the design and or can't be repaired and we've a crisis.

Just think of how many times you've waited in irritation and frustration for your inkjet printer to stop mucking about and preening itself before it starts printing. Right, it's a damn pain. (Please don't tell me that this wait is necessary because it just isn't.) Same goes for operating systems that have to be shut down and rebooted whenever certain changes are made.

For years I've advocated that software and computer science courses have compulsory strands on ergonomics but I'm now of the opinion that this is not enough. We need to teach basic ergonomics at school so kids when they grow up don't sit around like stuffed dummies as now and accept without complaint the shit that software and hardware vendors regularly dish out but instead become forceful complainers who won't accept junk. At the same time designers would be aware that customers actually have needs and that usability ought to be a key part of design and not an afterthought or forgotten about altogether.

An important final point: designers and developers do not use equipment in the same way ordinary users do. For some peculiar reason this isn't obvious to them. This is the reason they need to be force fed ergonomics whether it's at school or as part of their university courses.

  • crazygringo 3 years ago

    What do haptic buttons have to do with ergonomics?

    I don't see how they're any different from regular buttons ergonomics-wise.

    • hilbert42 3 years ago

      Well, if you don't know by now you need to do ergonomics.

      The answer is so blatantly obvious I can't be bothered answering it. Did you actually read the article? There's a few clues therein.

      • crazygringo 3 years ago

        Please don't be insulting like that, it's against HN guidelines, which you've broken two of (the other is insinuating someone hasn't read the article).

        I actually have extensive knowledge of ergonomics, which is why I'm asking. There are zero clues in the article, so I'd love an explanation.

        Because just to be clear -- haptic buttons activated by pressure are just as easily located by touch and require the same amount of force in the same direction. So what is the ergonomic difference?

        • hilbert42 3 years ago

          1. Not once did I mention 'haptic' in my post so why did you raise it in your reply?

          2. My comment is about poor and unacceptable ergonomics of much modern equipment and software and how it's getting worse—not better. My post is in support of Allison Johnson's story except that I've taken the wider more general case to point out that Apple is not alone in subverting good ergonomic design for manufacturing convenience and profit; that is, it's a widespread problem. My point is that customers/users must take a stand if it's to stop.

          3. You asked the question 'What do haptic buttons have to do with ergonomics?' I'll answer that by first briefly defining ergonomics. Ergonomics (aka HFE, Human Factors Engineering/Ergonomics) is a rigorous discipline concerned with the study of how humans work and interact with inanimate objects: tools, chairs, parts or elements of systems, software, etc. and the application of that data to optimizing the performance of that human/machine interaction (I'm sure there's a more succinct definition but that'll do for now).

          4. Haptics is an integral—in fact essential—part of ergonomics, the science couldn't progress without it: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-642-14075-4_.... You say you have extensive experience of ergonomics, so why did you question the connection between the subject and haptics? Your question is the equivalent of asking 'what's the difference between counting or multiplying and mathematics?'. What you asked is essentially a non sequitur. Assuming you understand the meaning of ergonomics then it makes no sense.

          5. I never make comments on HN that are deliberately intended to offend at a personal level and that's my position here.

          My comments are often forceful and opinionated but I generally try to structure and present them as one side of a formal argument†. My comment here was understandable and a normal reaction given your nonsensical comment. Please don't read anything more into it than that.

          __

          † Edit: Formal argument has rules which most seem to forget, if most people stuck to them then the internet would be a much more civilized place.

          • crazygringo 3 years ago

            > Not once did I mention 'haptic' in my post so why did you raise it in your reply?

            Because that was the whole subject of the article -- replacing buttons that move with haptic-feedback buttons. And your comment was a response to the article.

            And despite your lengthy reply, you still haven't suggested why replacing a physical depressed button with a haptic one has any ergonomic implications, given that the user interaction appears identical.

            > I never make comments on HN that are deliberately intended to offend... given your nonsensical comment.

            Well calling my comment "nonsensical" continues to offend, and it's awfully hard to see it as anything but deliberate. Again, I suggest you look at HN guidelines which you are continuing to break.

            • hilbert42 3 years ago

              1. First, user interaction between a mechanical switch—one whose parts move to switch on—and Apple's Taptic switches sans moving parts will not be identical as I will explain (that's Johnson's point).

              2. Both a mechanical push-button switch and an Apple's Taptic switch are BOTH haptic devices/interfaces by definition as both involve the sense of touch albeit each having a different modus operandi. Here's part of the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of 'haptic':

              "haptic, adjective

              1: relating to or based on the sense of touch

              2: characterized by a predilection for the sense of touch

              https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/haptic

              3. Again, the thrust of Allison Johnson's article is that the more familiar mechanical switch interface works better than an Apple's Taptic capacitive-type switch. There is no doubt about this as switches without tactile resistance cannot provide dynamic feedback to the human who pushes it as they have no inherent mechanism to do so; the consequence is that they've a dead feel and are dynamically unresponsive. It's why so many users hate smartphone keyboards, they only use them out of sufferance because there's nothing better. (If this haptic interface worked well then there'd be no complaint, however, even with nearly 20 years of smartphone engineering and development, the problem still remains.)

              Nothing illustrates this better than competitive gamers who demand mechanical keyboards. For them, everything about a keyboard is important, its size, rigidity, stability, visual feedback (whether the keys are backlit etc.) and especially the feel of its key switches—all of which contribute to the main haptic feedback (interaction) that users experiences. Diehard gamers demand 'Rolls Royce-type' key switches of the highest quality, these are usually made by the industry leader Cherry. Even then that's not enough, they'll select a specific type of key that has acceleration dynamics and actuation pressure to their liking and particular working style. It's why Cherry and other keyboard manufacturers grade their keys by color, red, blue, black, green etc.: https://keebnews.com/mechanical-keyboard-color-switches-guid....

              The same goes for the original IBM PC keyboard, anyone who has ever owned one would never let it go (here read, 'It Sounds and Feels Satisfying'): https://www.howtogeek.com/661430/why-i-still-use-a-34-year-o....

              4. A well-made mechanical button/switch is very predictable in its operation. It provides precise and consistent tactile feedback to the user by increasing mechanical resistance to human pressure, simultaneously its moving in sympathetic analog along with the user's finger and does so consistently up to the trigger/switching point whence the pressure is released. Its physical properties including size, shape, resistive pressure, positional change during operation as well as the texture and feel of its surface all integrate into a specific dynamic feedback pattern that defines overall haptic characteristic for any given device (it's dynamic feedback because it's constantly changing right up to the release point). As human familiarity and confidence grows, the button/switch essentially becomes an effective extension of the user's body (here the user's fingers).

              5. All these switch parameters are very important because tips of human fingers are exquisitely sensitive to touch and feel. A human notices even the slightest change in contact, acceleration, pressure and other properties of touch (most people have little appreciation of how truly sensitive the sense of touch in their fingers is).

              6. 'Taptic'-type buttons/switches are made to mimic mechanical ones, they can be made to respond to the speed of a user's actions by measuring positional information and a change in capacitance. As a finger approaches or withdraws from the switch surface the time rate change of capacitance is inputted into a haptic emulator. Similarly, pressure difference is measured as the area of the finger on the surface changes, the harder a user pushes the switch surface the more skin comes in contact with its surface hence the capacitance increases. Here, the change in capacitance only has limited capacity to convey information. Note: this is a vast subject, and I've barely scratched the surface.

              We know Taptic-style interfaces work as they are the basis of modern screen operation in smartphones. However, they are far from perfect. I'll illustrate what I mean by example. Above, I moved the order of two sentences about, and as this is comment is being prepared on my smartphone, I selected the text to be moved by highlighting it with my finger. The trouble was (as is so often the case with many others and me) selecting text this way was difficult, in fact it's often a damn nuisance. Either one's pressure is too high or too low, or the conductivity of one's fingers changes with circumstance, and or the granularity of selection is wrong: finger too big, text too small, etc. Irrespective, selecting text on a smartphone is much harder† than with a mouse as one doesn’t have the same fineness of granularity as one does with typical well-honed mechanical devices.

              I again return to the exquisite sensitivity of human touch and how important it is whether it's interaction with other humans or inanimate objects such as tools and smartphones. Simply, if dynamic tactile feedback is missing there's a problem, if it's not perfect then there's still a problem. For human contact a crude analogy would be the withdrawal method of contraception—it sort of works but it's not very satisfying. Simply, the human body requires very subtle feedback if it's to work at its best (the type of coupling is critical if things are to be optimal).

              Designing a tight effective coupling (interface) between a human and an inanimate object to the extent that it effectively becomes an extension of the human body is a very complex matter. Especially so if it has to be intuitive and its use second nature to a wide body of people with a minimum of learning (a prerequisite requirement of smartphone features).

              There are any number of excellent examples from other areas but most require extensive learning if using them is to become second nature. An experienced pianist can make dazzling use of the feedback from his piano keys but it can take years of training to do so—even then that's with the dynamic tactile feedback that piano keys inherently provide. Moreover, much of this learning is not only very involved but by nature it's also very subtle and specific. When for the first time a pianist tries to play an organ, harmonium or an electric keyboard that has little or different dynamic feedback then he/she is often thrown completely, the result is often horrible. Designing Taptic-style interfaces is inherently difficult as without moving parts one starts from an essentially 'static' base; in effect, all haptics have to be emulated (and that's a huge task and to date the results have been far from perfect).

              There's no doubt that Apple's engineers will go to inordinate lengths and use combinations of algorithms to optimize the Taptic performance and no doubt it will work but the fact still remains that without tactile feedback that possesses dynamic range (as opposed, say, to a finger hitting a glass or other hard surface) then effectively the tool/human (haptic) interface is only half done. QED!

              You wanted a finely-ground answer and now you have one. My argument was and still is that whilst the author's choice of words could have been better—in that her usage of the word 'haptic' is loose to say the least—the thrust of her point/argument is nevertheless crystal clear. I still can't understand why you cannot see this. Essentially, with your understanding of ergonomics (and presumably haptics) you should have skipped the somewhat mangled terminology and cut through to the core of Johnson's argument.

              __

              † For those who would question otherwise I'd ask them to check the size of the text compared to their finger size. Often this is sub-optimal, especially so if one has large fingers and one chooses small text as I do (for me, the more text per screen the better).

              This type of limitation/problem is not a function of the brand of O/S (Apple, Android etc.) but rather it is intrinsic to its modus operandi for reasons stated. That said, the quality of the implementation differs between brands/systems, however the fundamental design limitation remains.

              Whilst I'm not doing so here, I often use a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard with my smartphone as this overcomes the limitations of the interface—I even get to choose the type of keys on my mechanical keyboard.

              The fact that PC peripherals can be used with a smartphone is clearly a tacit acknowledgment by smartphone designers of the limitations of Taptic-style interfaces.

            • hilbert42 3 years ago

              1. First, Taptic user interaction won't be identical to a physical switch, at best it may be adequate but not as good as I'll explain (that's Johnson's point).

              2. Both a mechanical push-button switch which actuates (that is, parts move to switch on) and Apple's Taptic switch are BOTH haptic devices/interfaces by definition. Here's part of the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of 'haptic':

              "haptic, adjective

              1: relating to or based on the sense of touch

              2: characterized by a predilection for the sense of touch

              https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/haptic

              3. Again, the thrust of Allison Johnson's article is that the more familiar mechanical switch interface works better than an Apple's Taptic capacitive-type. There is no doubt about this as switces without tactile resistance do not provide dynamic feedback to the human who pushes it. It's why so many hate smartphone keyboards—they only use them out of sufferance because there's nothing better. They've a dead feel and are dynamically unresponsive.

              Nothing illustrates this better than competative gamers who demand mechanical keyboards. For them, everything about a keyboard is important, its size, rigidity, stability, visual feedback (lit keys etc.) and especially the key switches—all of which contribute to the main haptic feedback (interaction) that the user experiences.

              Diehard gamers demand 'Rolls Royce-type' key switches of the highest quality, these are usually made by the industry leader Cherry. Even then that's not enough, they'll select a specific type of key that has acceleration dynamics and actuation pressure to their liking and particular working style. It's why Cherry and other keyboard manufacturers grade their keys by color, red, blue, black, green etc.: https://keebnews.com/mechanical-keyboard-color-switches-guid....

              Same goes for the original IBM PC keyboard, anyone who has ever owned one would never part with it (here read, 'It Sounds and Feels Satisfying') : https://www.howtogeek.com/661430/why-i-still-use-a-34-year-o....

              4. A well made mechanical switch provides consistent tactile feedback, it offers increasing mechanical resistance up to the point where it switches, moreover, it not only switches cleanly and repeatedly but also has a predictability about its operation. As such, the human has confidence in it and thus it becomes an extension of his/her body (fingers). The more predicable the switch's action the more effective it is as an extension of the human anatomy.

              5. All these switch parameters are important because the tips of human fingers are exquisitely sensitive to touch and feel, a human notices even the slightest change in acceleration, pressure and means of touch. 'Taptic' type buttons are made to mimic a mechanical one; that is they can be made to respond to the speed of a user's actions (time rate change of capacitance as a finger approaches/withdraws), and the pressure applied (capacitance changes as the area of the finger on the surface changes—it increases when the user pushes harder as more skin touches the surface). Note: this is a vast subject and I've barely scratched the surface.

              No doubt these Taptic-style interfaces work as they are the basis of modern screen operation in smartphones. However, they are far from perfect. I'll illustrate what I mean by example. Above, I moved the order of two sentences about, and as this is comment is being prepared on my smartphone, I selected the text to be moved by highlighting it with my finger. The trouble was (as is so often the case with many others and me) selecting the text this way was difficult, in fact it's often a damn nuisance. Either one's pressure is too high or too low, or the conductivity of one's fingers changes with circumstance or the granularity of selection is wrong—finger too big, text too small, etc.). Irrespective, selecting text on a smartphone is much harder† than with, say, a mouse.

              The fact is that whilst these Taptic-style interfaces work they do not provide the dynamic tactile feedback that a proper mechanical switch, mouse, joystick or stylus does (the stylus is why I loved my old Samsung note3). Simply, the dynamic tactile feedback is missing. A crude analogy would be the withdrawl method of contraception—works sort of but not very satisfying. The fact is human body requires this subtle feedback if it's to work at its best. Another good example is a pianist and the feedback from piano keys. When a pianist tries to play an organ, harmonium or an on/off electric keyboard without dynamics for the first time then he/she is often thrown completely, the result is often horrible.

              There's no doubt that Apple's engineers will go to inordinate lengths and use combinations of algorithms to optimize the Taptic performance and no doubt it will work but the fact still remains that without tactile feedback that possesses dynamic range—as opposed to a finger hitting a glass or other hard surface—then effectively the tool/human (haptic) interface is only half done. QED!

              6. You wanted a finely-ground answer and now you have one. My argument was and still is that whilst the author's choice of words could have been better in that her usage of the word 'haptic' is loose to say the least the thrust of her point/argument is nevertheless crystal clear. I still can't understand why you cannot see this. Essentially, with your understanding of ergonomics (and presumably haptics) you should have skipped the somewhat mangled terminology and cut through to the core of Johnson's argument.

              __

              † For those who would question otherwise I'd ask them to check the size of the text compared to their finger size. Often this is suboptimal, especially so if one has large fingers and one chooses small text as I do (for me, the more text per screen the better).

              This type of limitation/problem is not a function of brand or O/S (Apple versus Android) but rather it's intrinsic to its modus operandi for reasons stated above. That said, the quality of the implementation differs between brands/systems but the fundamental design limitation remains.

              Whilst I'm not doing so here, I often use a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard with my smartphone as this overcomes these limitations—I even get to choose the type of keys on my mechanical keyboard. The fact that PC peripherals can be used with a smartphone is clearly a tacit acknowledgment by the designers of the limitations I've been discussing.

jmull 3 years ago

> And gloves! Sure, gloves with capacitive fingertips exist, and Apple will probably engineer ways for these pretend buttons to play nicely with gloves.

Why assume the buttons will be capacitive? Pressure sensitive makes more sense to me.

  • hummus_bae 3 years ago

    If they’re pressure-sensitive they won’t work while the lid is closed… so they’d have to be capacitive.

    • jmull 3 years ago

      I don't know what that means. What lid? And why would a lid cover the sides of a phone?

      Even a case fully covering the sides could have a bump in the right place, to serve as a target for the user and transmit force to the phone's force sensor.

pupppet 3 years ago

I hate our buttonless future. Absolutely nobody is asking for less buttons.

  • hilbert42 3 years ago

    Right, no self-respecting gamer would use anything other than a mechanical keyboard, and even then the type of key switches amongst aficionados is critical.

    Similarly, buttons have to be obvious and provide consistent tactile feedback. So often they do not.

    It seems that when the membrane switch came into vogue some decades ago we forgot about the rules of ergonomics.

    It's time we brought them back.

subbz 3 years ago

Aside from saving money, they're doing it also to generate sales.

In iPhone 15 the missing button will be the feature. Some years later, say in iPhone 18, the re-introduced button will be the feature.

All that happened before with Apple devices. They took away the form factor of the original iPhone SE without replacement just to bring it back with the iPhone 13 Mini. Also they took away the ports of MacBooks to end up with an USB-C port only - and now - the latest 14" MacBooks reintrudice a wide range of ports as a.. can you guess?

  • kurthr 3 years ago

    Don't worry, the Mini is going away. It's not profitable (enough).

    However, the increased haptics and strain sensor costs are unlikely to be made up directly by button cost savings. It does make it much easier to seal the entire thing and it may reduce volume (more battery), or increase "functionality", but I think it is to some extent (as others have mentioned) it's really the final step in Steve Jobs long bitter personal war on the button.

    Really, I worry more that there may be no way to reliably reset your phone once they remove the USB cable and everything is wireless.

  • rappr 3 years ago

    The original iPhone SE and iPhone Mini designs are not the same.

robocat 3 years ago

The haptic home button does not work when wearing gloves on iPhone SE 2022 (I just tested it).

With haptic side buttons, a 3rd party case couldn’t use plastic over the buttons (my iPhone SE 2022 case has molded button covers as part of the plastic surround).

Aside: Apple’s usability feels like it is going downhill. As a very recent Android -> iPhone convert, I keep bumping into obvious and serious usability flaws, even with my years of prior experience with an iPad. Watching my 80 year old mum trying to learn how to use an iPad was a real eye opener for usability and accessibility failures (weirdly enough, she used to use a Windows laptop a few years ago with less problems, probably due to familiarity).

I’m guessing Apple can make a haptic button that is more reliable and more waterproof than a physically clicky button. We all know of old iPhones with a physical home button where the home button stopped working reliable (or at all). Preventing failure in objects that physically move is very difficult.

  • crazygringo 3 years ago

    But a trackpad button and the AirPods click do work with gloves.

    Surely Apple will implement volume buttons that respond to pressure, like those do, rather than capacitance, like the iPhone home button.

    And so a 3rd party case that covers the buttons would still work just fine.

solarkraft 3 years ago

I like my MacBook's Touchpad a lot. I also like the iPhone SE/X (hehe)'s haptic feedback combined with the pressure sensor.

With this change they might actually get around to implementing a (software defined) shutter button.

  • ChrisMarshallNY 3 years ago

    I find the TrackPad haptic is excellent. It feels exactly like the old physical press. It's a bit weird, when the pad is off, and pressing does nothing, but, as long as it's on, it feels fine.

    The Watch crown also feels good.

    I do agree that the haptic Home button on my iPhone 8 (I keep it for testing) feels weird and wimpy, but I suspect the reason why, is their obsession with thin.

    It's entirely possible to make haptics feel exactly like analog controls, but their behavior is software-defined, and can be odd as hell.

    • solarkraft 3 years ago

      I think it's better because the response is uniform across the surface rather than it being stiffer at the top. I also prefer the deep thump on my M1 Air when it's set to "silent" mode (it's significantly less nice on the M1 Pro, IMO, since the response on that has a higher frequency). And of course you can change how strongly you have to press until a click is registered.

      If the software around it wasn't so useless second-layer clicks would be really cool too.

helmholtz 3 years ago

Is this journalism? The first sentence itself is incorrect.

> But since reports have been surfacing for a while now that [...].

Well, what about it? You cannot start a sentence with "But since" and not offer a what it means.

  • Veen 3 years ago

    It's probably bad editing. I'd guess that the original sentence made sense, but they changed the end without going back to change the beginning. It happens often when writers and editors are in a hurry.

  • dmitshur 3 years ago

    It seems to read okay if the word "but" is removed, maybe that's the typo.

flenserboy 3 years ago

The elimination of buttons is not just a hardware issue; it goes hand-in-hand with the elimination of visual cues on websites & in apps. We're getting close to needing some sort of WordPerfect function-key guide attached to our phones & tablets to know what to click on so we don't have to stab randomly around our device (due to missing buttons) or screen (due to lack of cues) to know what is a link, button, or action. Bare minimalism should not be a goal, but more of an approach.

  • dagmx 3 years ago

    The post doesn’t actually say the button is going away. It says the button mechanism is changing.

ravagat 3 years ago

I'm still waiting on Apple to bring those iPad fingerprint power buttons into the iPhone. And I'm still hoping someone is ballsy enough to make a keyboard case for the iPhone. Also I'm hoping Blackberry returns but I know that's long off.

ftth_finland 3 years ago

I’m still bitter that Apple forcibly changed the rotate lock button to a mute button on my iPad.

jacooper 3 years ago

And now watch Samsung and other android manufacturers clone this for no reason.

Its always the same cycle, mock apple, then copy them. It happened with aux, the charger and it will happen again with this, they are just dumb.

TT-392 3 years ago

So... it is nice that capacitive buttons are easier to waterproof. But is nobody gonna mention that you are gonna get false triggers when they get wet.

szundi 3 years ago

I hope it works if the case itself have those physical buttons. Like the Apple original leather case… wait a minute! …

nashashmi 3 years ago

think about those times when phone goes off in class and you race to hit the button while it’s in your pocket.

Euphorbium 3 years ago

I wish they take the mute toggle away. It ruins lives, when it gets switched accidentally.

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