The 1986 Paris-Dakar rally (2021)
hagerty.com> In the truck class, the surprise winners [in the 1986 rally] were Giacomo Vismara and Giulio Minelli in the Mercedes support truck for the Honda of Italy bike team.
The Dakar Rally is such a crazy event, and that a support team can also win, even if the team they were supported didn't, or even had to retire before reaching the finish line.
What others sports could you even achieve something like that?
Cycling is the obvious example - it's completely reasonable to go into a race as a support rider but end up, say, in a breakaway group that was successful while the team captain stayed with the main peloton.
It's not possible to win a whole tour that way, but if you build up a lead over your captain in the first few stages, your director might decide to switch tactics and have the team support you after that.
The Vuelta of Spain was supposed to be a win for Bradley Wiggins, but his support Chris Froome faired much better. After Kobo lost, at the jury table, the win was awarded to Froome, then a support cyclist.
Long distance running! Sometimes hares get impatient. [1]
[1] https://www.archyde.com/a-hare-wins-a-marathon-and-qualifies...
Also Mercedes unimog is a beast
<eyes roll loop in head>
It's a road capable tractor (for generous definitions of road capable, nobody who actually gushes over them would consider them fit for road use) that has an internet following.
If the vehicle type were widely useful outside of very few very specific niches it would be prolific and more OEMs would make them.
I don’t understand why you’d reply in such a pedantic way and yet not say anything that expands, refutes or seems associated with what the comment you’re replying to said. OP said it’s a beast, not “what a great road truck to take the family on a trip”.
People buy Humvees to drive around by the way.
I just thought the inherent tradeoffs between "do tractor stuff" and "be nice on the road" were obvious enough.
These vehicles top out at about 55 after 1/4mi of flat road with your foot on the floor. This kind of performance is fine for a convoy but is a really un-fun time in modern traffic.
The torsional flexing that makes them want to keep tires planted for working on less than even terrain makes them handle like poo even compared to other vehicles on similar sized tires.
These things make humvees look good, not fast, but good.
Do those things not make it a beast? I still don’t get your point. No one said they were good road vehicles. Just that they were a beast, which they are. Are beasts light nimble and quiet in general?
>What others sports could you even achieve something like that?
Pretty much every off road race where the organizers choose the course so that most of of the finishers podium winds up with crazy upsets like that.
Rally in the 80s until 1986 was insane. There was the class B with some of the most powerful rally cars ever built. If you see older insane rally videos, it is usually from class B.
The Porsche 959 never participated in group B races, and it would have been really interesting to see it competing with Audi Quattro and Lancia Delta.
unfortunately in 1986 there were several tragic accidents, resulted in the end of group b.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_B
Here are some scenes from group B that give a feeling how intense and dangerous it was.
I think the most crazy thing to enter Dakar was the DAF Turbo Twin. https://www.carhutt.com/daf-95-turbotwin-x1/
2400bhp in a truck… See this video of it overtaking one of the rally cars to get an idea how truly crazy that machine was: https://youtu.be/DDGbtUsTv24
That wasn't one of the rally cars, that was the lead rally car, going over 200 km/h over ungraded sand. One of my favorite points in motoracing history.
HP to weight isn't really useful beyond the point where you can put it to the ground. Notice how the truck is doing most of the gaining and overtaking in the rougher sections where it can keep better ground contact than the car.
Always enjoyed this documentary on the topic: "Too fast to race"
> Rally in the 80s until 1986 was insane. There was the class B with some of the most powerful rally cars ever built
Strictly speaking true; but in practice peak power didn't end up being that critical and rally cars soon became faster even with less power. Also the ultra-high power period only lasted few years, maybe 84-86 or so (modern WRC car produces 380 HP which afaik is more than any 1983 championship competitor)
True, I would also add that a major contributing factor to the danger of the group B era was absolutely horrendous race organization and scheduling, creating dangerous situations for competitors and spectators. Most notably and tragically at Portugal in 1986. While Gr.B cars required great skill, the danger of the cars themselves was perhaps overemphasized by Jean Marie Balestre's FISA to direct blame away from their own organization and on to the manufacturers.
Even today you'll see dangerous conditions in long distance desert racing due to unstructured roads and inadequate crowd barrierrs (for those that travel out to the dune whoops to see things go bad:
( Finke, not the Paris-Dakar )
I've been a fan of the 959 since seeing the Tamiya version. I'd love for them to re-release the kit so I can finally own one
> Back in 1977, while riding a Yamaha XT 500 in the Abidjan-Nice Rally, a wealthy French motorcycle racer named Thierry Sabine got lost in the Libyan desert.
The Libyan desert is a very dangerous place. Cambyses son of Cyrus the Great ended up losing an entire army of tens of thousands of men in the Libyan desert. The army was never found. Later Alexander the Great also got lost in the Libyan desert and was only saved because he was able to see and follow some ravens.
Have you been there? Genuinely curious, I'm thinking of visiting.
Please give any sources you can
Bill's 959 Story: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/bill-gates-illegal-porsche-sat-...
Balavoine was a once in a generation talent. He was a great singer but more importantly an exceptional composer right next to Goldman.
He died at 36 and still he was able to write so many memorable songs.
Lady Marlene is not the most popular but I have fond memories of it.
When I saw the title, without opening the article, my first thought went to Balavoine. 1986 was tough, between the loss of Balavoine and that of Coluche. I was only 8, and they are the only memories I have from that year. (not that I have many memories from the surrounding years)
> Balavoine […] once in a generation talent […] right next to Goldman
That’s a very loose definition of talent you have. There is a reason people think the 80s is a lost decade. We are talking about a terrible period in a country known for the general awfulness of its pop music.
Still a tragic and very unfortunate event.
> general awfulness of its pop music
What on earth? There are literally whole broadcast radio stations that play nothing but 80s pop music. If you don't like 80s music, you can get the fuck off my lawn.
> Baron fell into a coma, from which he never awoke. He passed in 2010.
I hadn't known that Baron was in a coma for 24 years after this.
If you have some cash to spend, the 911 was just released in a limited Dakar edition, incl. the OG Rothmans decals. Work of art.
200 K EUR at least, if you can manage to fetch one. At only 2500 units they're unlikely to be sold at Porsche dealerships to non-Porsche customers.
As a funny anecdote a friend of mine managed to buy a Porsche Cayman GT4 RS (not just GT4 but GT4 RS) from an official Porsche dealership because he said he wanted one before Porsche even announced they would create that model. "I want to order a Porsche Cayman GT4 RS" / "But sir that car doesn't exist" / "I don't care, they'll certainly make one. If want to book it now".
And he got it a few months ago : )
I'm not even a "car guy" but I sure would love to have one of those GT40's from Ford vs. Ferrari. (With a working door :))
> I'm not even a "car guy" but I sure would love to have one of those GT40's from Ford vs. Ferrari. (With a working door :))
Ah... I looked into that.
Good news: Ford sold the rights and the tooling for the GT40 (and hence lost the right to use the name "GT40", which is why their modern "GT40" is called simply "Ford GT") and a company called "Superformance" still creates new Fort GT40, which are nearly entirely compatible, parts for parts, with the original ones.
The Superformance cars are more than "replicas": they like to call their cars "continuation cars" (for they're made with the original tooling and they do own the rights to produce the GT40 and AC Cobras).
It's not the "real" thing in that they aren't from the 60s/70s, but then you can have one for 100 K (Superformance AC Cobra) or 200 K (Superformance GT40) instead of millions.
I've got a few cars and may buy a Superformance AC Cobra at some point. They even have the old Carroll Shelby chassis number starting with "CSX". The other AC Cobra replicas don't get to have a chassis starting with the elusive "CSX...".
Is there a 959 version? Those cars are absolutely astonishing
Sure, if you have 7 figures to spare. Best story: https://www.motorbiscuit.com/bill-gates-illegal-porsche-sat-...
Yup. Pretty outrageous. I don't think it is custom's place to decide if the owner is gong to drive it on the public roads or only on the track. That should be up to the state Motor Vehicle Departments whether to grant it roadworthiness certs and license plates, or not.
He should have been able to import it and at least sit it in his driveway, or take it to the track, even if he can't drive it to work. There are plenty of purpose-built racecars that are street-illegal; they get towed to the track and have fun.
Now, if he'd filled out the paperwork stating it was a road car, then likely US DOT rules came into play, but still, seems not the place of customs to enforce since there are legal options.
Oops lol for some reason I thought the person I was replying to was talking about a die-cast model or something! Of course the 959 is basically completely out of reach for a pleb like me.
Porsche Item No. WAP0219590NRLL
legend!
I vividly remember how Ari Vatanen won the 1987 event in a Peugeot 205 (I was in elementary school). On the heels of the rally success he went on to become the PR face of Big Milk for the next decade or so.
This was a big deal back in the day. I remember watching the Today Show with mom (miss you) and them doing a segment on the race and the 959.
> Back in 1977, while riding a Yamaha XT 500
This bike is a legend.
I used to ride one when I was younger.
Fond memories of that fat 500cc mono.
This years Dakar has felt so sanitized and corporate, I’m a bit sad by the series’ progression. And not a single car in the lineup. I will say the Audi team’s raid car is absolutely one of the coolest things I’ve ever seen, though.
Has Dakar spent dramatically more money on (social media) marketing this year? Seems like they are popping up all over the place in a way the didn't in the past... I very much doubt its all organic
Not sure, but the Dakar Rally hasn’t involved Dakar, Senegal since 2007. Most recently it takes place within Saudi Arabia.
Is Dakar Rally relevant anymore? Certainly doesn't seem so compared to the Paris-Dakar races I remember from the 70s and 80s.
It's way, way toned down these days. Like most things, "back in the day" was much harder and hobbled by poor tech and whatnot. Early Tour de France editions had stages far longer than now, on dirt roads, riders carried their own spare parts, and some had to weld bikes back together.
i thought this was the one that mark thatcher got lost in (but was unhappily found again) but unfortunately it was not.
If you really want to experience rallying I would recommend driving one of the modern road going rally inspired cars like the Lancer EVO / WRX STI / GR Yaris. They handle like no other, and will push the casual driver to their limits much before the car reaches its limits. Also turbo lag is fun.