Settings

Theme

Why is Lichess free? (2014)

lichess.org

20 points by kitschyred 3 years ago · 9 comments

Reader

WhiteBlueSkies 3 years ago

Sure, it's a hobby. How many hours has the dev spent building the site, doesn't he deserve to be compensated for his hard work?

  • than3 3 years ago

    I am not against compensating anyone for work they do.

    That being said, its been my experience that there is something rotten in that group of people. Thibault likes to be the face-man, but there are others involved in running things as he can't be available all the time.

    From what I've seen, the group acts and behaves similar to many businesses that have something to hide. Either some kind of fraud or other unlawful act going on. This comes as just an opinion because there are practices in the ways professionals conduct themselves, and then there is the absence of those safeguards.

    Almost always, in the absence of safeguards there is some kind of shennanigan playing out, and from the little information they provide, they lack those safeguards.

    While, there is no direct evidence to support this opinion only because they don't provide anything, I do find the absence of certain things interesting.

    Like for example, in a normal charitable organization, you have an annual budget, and a report of the actuals (what you spent), and its updated regularly in quarterly reports with minutes made and published by the board of directors (open for general outlays, and closed sessions for bidding/contract negotiations).

    Yes, they have a budget, but its missing key pieces of accountable information and they don't publish actuals, this isn't line item level entries this is a breakdown of categories and cash-flow. From what I can tell its not updated regularly or with written minutes when it is updated and the budget doesn't go through a process of pro-forma to approved or have published annual reports, this is a major red-flag to me, and many other professionals and usually there is some kind of independent audit required when amounts go above a threshold every so often.

    Second, France requires certain things to open a charity/business bank account (to not comingle funds), and from what I can tell from public records Lichess hasn't done that.

    So this brings on a flurry of questions I would normally ask when examining records like this such as, so whose account is the money being held in... are funds being comingled, are the items being rented at a colocation (individual) being charged more than regular price for such activity, are there elements of a kickback scheme, etc.

    Lichess has built a lot of goodwill, but they also don't run things professionally, and when you don't run things professionally, it looks more like you are doing something wrong, more so than is easily explained as just an honest mistake.

    I have to wonder what kind of scheme is going on because lets be clear, they wouldn't be doing this for more than a year or two if they weren't making money, and as they've been going for much longer than that there are questions that any reasonable person should ask, primarily to bolster Lichess' credibility, it would be in their interest to do that but they don't or haven't and anytime those questions get asked a concerted group of online others choose to downvote or denigrate.

    It is so clockwork and mechanical solely based on a basic perceived sentiment, that it begs the question of if those people who are responding are even real because today you can easily spin up a chat-gpt model to de-amplify one negative voice with sufficient infrastructure, perhaps under the guise of public affairs/image management. Anyone who knows anything about IT knows that has been happening, just look at reddit. Its even easier on HN news because no email validation required and these questions, are very modest questions that should have concrete answers, but based on my research, don't.

    • nicbou 3 years ago

      Or perhaps they just want to build a thing for fun and not satisfy arbitrary demands for professionalism. It’s a hobby. Why would they want to create detailed reports for a board of directors?

      • than3 3 years ago

        > Why would they want to create detailed reports...

        They are a charity, and accept monetary donations, and many of these things are required practices for charities to combat and detect fraud.

        If they wanted to run it as a hobby they don't have to accept donations or receive beneficial tax status, but then they wouldn't be making money.

        • nicbou 3 years ago

          The local Chinese restaurant has a tip jar.

          This is the online equivalent. Whether it buys servers or beer, it was hard-earned. Why raise a fuss about it?

      • WhiteBlueSkies 3 years ago

        So they got 5 servers, for 2 they pay 170 per month.

        That's 85 per server. Without the free servers the price tag for running it would be: 425$ per month.

        This seems incredibly low to run a site with so many concurrent plays and everything else.

        • than3 3 years ago

          The problem with your analysis is you are taking that budget they show and assuming it is correct and that they have not lied, and when investigating fraud a necessary component of any fraud is lying about what you've done. Forensic accountants catch people because certain practices are followed, such as double entry-accounting and regular cash flow statements.

          What they have posted, is based on their say so with no supporting documentation and that document has been updated a few times, but not regularly as one would expect happens during a normal course of charity business (quarterly or annually). I've never heard of a legitimate charity that doesn't regularly have an independent auditor look over their books every few years and certify there are no inconsistencies (at a bare minimum).

          All I was saying is, there are a lot of questions, and no solid information to draw any conclusions from.

xcombelle 3 years ago

definitely out of date,

see https://lichess.org/about for up to date information

sourcecodeplz 3 years ago

I love the app. Really no ads, no premium features, no nothing.

Yes, I have read somewhere that the owners are "communist" and whatever. Doesn't change the value of the app though. People are people, no one is perfect because not every one holds the same values thoughts.

Keyboard Shortcuts

j
Next item
k
Previous item
o / Enter
Open selected item
?
Show this help
Esc
Close modal / clear selection