Caterpillar offers phone with built-in FLIR camera
catphones.comThe lack of a replacable battery is infuriating because it's planned obselescence of a FLIR device. I got one of the first CAT s60 phones when they came out and tolerated all the android spyware on it because I really liked having a properly ruggedized phone. Got about 4 years out of it.
The flir camera I would say I used most often at night for finding my dogs poop to pick up on neighbours lawns in the dark, but I used it on boats to find moisture, motorcycle engine seals to find gasket problems, found contractor fraud where they didn't bother putting insulation behind drywall, and places around windows for caulking to reduce heat loss, heat on horses legs that indicated inflammation, lack of current on wires in my basement. Mostly novelty, but handy.
The battery became too flaky to use as a regular phone, so I keep it in my toolbox and use it as a stud finder behind drywall and used to find where animals were getting into the attic of the house. Next test is for rim leaks on car tires. It has been a small time saver, and a fun conversation piece. But yeah, military thermal imaging to find dog poop at night was most common use case.
I have a flir as well and I've used it a lot while insulating my house, but the coolest thing I've done was find the exact location of a wasp nest between my walls and annihilating it by injecting a pesticide directly in the middle of the nest with a tiny drill hole. It seems gimmicky at first but it's been a real money-saver.
I love stories about smiting wasps
Fun fact: in most of Germany this would have been a crime with a penalty of up to tens of thousands in EUR depending on the exact species.
Wasps have such a bad reputation. We have had nests of yellow jackets (vespula germanica), paper wasps (polistes dominula), and hornets (vespa crabro) directly on our terrace, and I have been stung once in ten years and that was my fault.
There once was a nest of vespula germanica above the window of my study, a rather big nest that grew to a size of about 3000 or 4000 animals. The only thing I did about it was to close a hole in the wall, because a few of them kept coming inside. I sometimes went outside to watch the traffic at the entrance of the nest.
More fun facts: wasps eat mosquitos. Lots of them! And they pollinate plants. Adult wasps are vegetarians, when they hunt or steal a piece of your steak (I have seen that happen!), then they collect food for their larvae.
If you really want to get rid of wasps, use an essential oil (peppermint, lemon grass). Wasps communicate using pheromones and do not tolerate strong odor. Do not spray the nest, spray the area around the nest. You do not have to kill them.
Just reading this makes me sweat. Aren't hornets - and wasps, to a lesser degree - extremely territorial? How do you deal with one when it find its way inside you house? Not to mention, aren't hornets and wasps natural enemies? I imagine you didn't have the two set their nests near your terrace simultaneously?
I can intellectually process all the facts you wrote, but in my dealing with wasps and hornets, I find it hard to see them as anything than fast-moving balls of pain, always ready to strike at you out of nowhere, when you least expect them. Also, as a relatively fresh parent, as a threat to my children. I tend to prefer dealing with them by installing mosquito nets in all windows, but if a hornet gets in and doesn't politely leave, it's makeshift flamethrower time.
Yes, wasps are territorial, but this just means that they will defend their nests at all cost. As long as you do not rock their nest (or otherwise cause strong vibration) or stand directly in their flight path, you are safe.
Different nests can be as close as a few meters and their inhabitants will mostly ignore each other. The hornets were about 7 or 8 meters away from the yellow jackets, and I have never seen them fight. If you put some fruit or honey somewhere, they will (mostly) peacefully share it.
European hornets are not aggressive at all, they are just big and loud. When one gets into the house, I usually wait for it to settle down somewhere and then carefully catch it with a glass and a piece of cardboard. We also have mosquito nets on all windows and doors.
Another fun fact: wasps will not spend much time around their nests. They usually leave the nest at high speed (do not stand there!) and then roam an area of multiple square kilometers. When they come back they immediately go back into the nest. Sometimes a single animal may inspect the closer area, but this is rare.
Once you understand wasps, there is not much to fear. I understand your concerns regarding you child/children, and it is probably a good idea to keep wasps at a distance for some time. When children grow up, there is little danger, though. The sting of a single wasp or hornet will not harm a human being unless you are allergic. (European!) hornets use almost the same venom as yellow jackets, only more of it. (In Asia or South America, be more careful!)
Finally, wasps do not want to sting you. Most of the time they are just investigating. When a flying wasp bothers you, slowly and carefully push it away with your hand. Most of the time it will just go away. On the net there are videos of some guy who tries to get stung by various wasps. It is educating to see how much he had to bother them before they did.
> directly in their flight path
My experience of sitting outside in the summer (modulo NW England) is that their flight path covers getting close to 100% of the airspace in my garden.
Though I'm sure there are other varieties I've only ever seen one type of wasp in the UK, and that's this one https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellowjacket, and my experience of them is that they are irritating and aggressive bastards. I don't doubt that wasps are an integral part of the ecosystem, but I'd prefer it if they integrated into a geographically distinct part of the ecosystem from me and my lunch.
Is there perhaps something related to smell or movement? The only time I got stung by a yellowjacket is when I pulled a Miyamato Musashi and caught one with some chopsticks. I got two deserved stings out of the experience, but yellowjackets have treated me well since. I've observed that though yellowjackets might want to land on people and investigate a while, they're soon gone as long as there's no beer involved. I just semi-freeze for a few seconds and let them do their thing. Obviously a bit uncomfortable when they land on the face or neck, but the only people I know who seem to have been stung as adults are those that are clearly panicky around wasps. I'd go so far as to qualify them as placid. Horseflies are aggressive and another beast altogether...
As far as I know they're attracted to things they can use as a food source, but that's a guess.
> stand directly in their flight path, you are safe
Having been chased by wasps while on a riding lawnmower, I'm calling bullshit! And those suckers are fast!
I was going to say, back in my home country (South America) the recommendation was (is?) destroy nests on sight (If inside/near a home) because they tend to not only be territorial, but also proactively aggresive. (Our species don't fuck around, even the names are scary, eye stinger?, butcher wasp?, black cowboy?)
> European hornets are not aggressive at all, they are just big and loud.
Seems like you are talking about bombus, not vespa. The worst thing about hornets is that if one insect has bit you somewhere near their nest than you better run as fast as possible from that place because of pheromone mark.
I am talking about vespa crabro, the European hornet. All social wasps use pheromones to mark intruders. If you are being stung while close to a nest, yes, do walk away. That being said, I have been stung once (own mistake) while standing 2 meters away from a nest and nothing happened.
Curious. The reason I mentioned nests being close together upthread is because - per my understanding - both being stung by a wasp/hornet and killing one releases pheromones that makes other wasps/hornets go into aggressive mode. So I'm imagining the two nests being so close to each other will, eventually, trigger a war, which only ends once one of the side is eradicated. I wouldn't want to see anything like that near my house.
> Another fun fact: wasps will not spend much time around their nests. They usually leave the nest at high speed (do not stand there!) and then roam an area of multiple square kilometers. When they come back they immediately go back into the nest. Sometimes a single animal may inspect the closer area, but this is rare.
Not the wasps here. There's always a few wasps flying around the nests when I find them.
It also doesn't take much to aggravate them.
If you mean directly in front of the entrance, yes, there will always be a bunch of wasps waiting for their turn to get in. And, yes, do not get too close to that spot unless you know what you are doing. In particular: know their flight paths and do not stand there.
So when they built a nest near my back door, I'm just supposed to surrender my back patio so them so I can stay out of their flight paths?
As I wrote before, if you want to get rid of them, there are ways to do so (and keep them away) without killing them.
But to answer your question more directly: We have happily surrendered part of our terrace to wasps. Their right to live tops our desire for convenience. A nest lives for one year. If we do not want them to use the same spot next year, there are ways to make sure they do not.
I'm not surrendering "part of my terrace" to wasps - I'm talking about the rest of my family being unwilling to open the back door because there are always wasps flying near it. I'm not willing to surrender my back door to wasps for a year in hopes they find new flight patterns next year.
Nonsense, hornets eat yellow jackets as snacks.
Larger wasps prey on smaller wasps, but they can still coexist in close proximity. They do not spend the entire day with hunting.
It depends on the dietary needs of the hive, but beneath the pear tree of my fathers farm, they most definitly did. Swoop, crack open, slurp. Was a evening background noise..
When eating outdoor in the summer requires you to swat away the same wasps from your plate over and over again, it's definitely annoying. I was stung as a kid for no reason, it was a pain for me and my parents to deal with. My wife and kid were stung also by wasps they could not see.
We get rid of termites and insects by fumigating entire buildings. I don't see anything wrong with doing that to wasps as well. After all, in all likelihood, wasps will vastly outlive the human species...
This is not true.
"in the last 5 years in NordRhein-Westfalen only once was someone fined 45 euros for destroying a wasps nest" https://correctiv.org/faktencheck/2018/07/24/nein-wer-eine-e...
The fines for thousands of euros are the maximum possible fines, which massively differs to how fines are handed out in practice.
So they have a law on the books that isn't really enforced?
That's almost worse imo.
It was though, a fine was levied. There's flexibility in the punishments that are dished out in a lot of justice systems and I suspect it's to take into account that the law is not really nuanced. It's hard to write down /all/ possible motives, reasons or contexts in which a law or rule has been broken, and allowing the punishment to be scaled based on judgement seems like a reasonable thing to allow. I guess that's what judges are for.
Of course this raises questions around who is making these judgements, and there's sometimes unfairness in how they are applied (eg. police in the US, broken tail lights and the colour of skin of the person stopped), but it doesn't mean that the underlying goal isn't sound, just the implementation.
Personally I've had experience of this. My car tax (UK) lapsed and I didn't renew it. An oversight during a busy time of my life (moving house), and one that I noticed and fixed independently once I noticed, it must have been after a month or two.
However, during the period when my car wasn't taxed the police noticed and reported it (to the authorities, not to me) who issued a fine (~£90) that was sent to me by post. Unfortunately though I'd told the authorities that I'd moved house, twice, they sent the fine and all followup correspondence to my old address and I ended up with a choice, pay debt collectors (they managed to find my new house /just fine/) for the now increased fine + expenses (in the region of ~£800) or go to court. Worst case either way was I'd have to pay the increased amount.
I went to court and the three justices deliberated my case (I could hear them) and though they decided that I could afford the increased amount, it wouldn't be in anyone's interest to levy it as the circumstances in which this happened mitigated my lack of attention to the increasing fines. I wasn't a deliberate law breaker and ultimately a large fine wasn't going to change my on consideration generally good behaviour, and they made me pay the original ~£90 rather than the substantially increased amount.
As the saying goes, the law is an ass.
In France there are a lot of new laws every year (~100) but at least on third of them will not be enforced, mostly because there is no budget to implement them, or it is political gesticulation to please some electors [0].
For example over the year 2009/2010, 59 laws, which provided for 670 implementing decrees, were promulgated.
According to a Senate report, as of September 30, 2010, only 3 laws had received all of their implementing decrees. And only 20% of these decrees had seen the light of day. However, a law without an implementing decree is useless: it is not applicable.
[0] https://www.bfmtv.com/politique/parlement/faute-de-decret-d-...
Most laws are poorly enforced and only get invoked when you have otherwise pissed the right person off and they’re looking for something to get you on.
So what I said is true. "Up to" does not say anything about the typical amount.
Your fact check article is also only partially relevant as it addresses the sensationalist claim that these fines apply to killing a wasp but the conversation was about a wasps nest.
The article also states that these maximum fines exist but that even the very low fines that have been handed out only happen very rarely. In other words: the laws exist but they're applied so rarely as to be effectively meaningless (which is true not just for wasps but for animal cruelty in general). That doesn't disagree with what I said though.
Why are wasps protected in Germany? I understand bees, but what good are wasps for?
Without the wasps crawling into the sugar dispensers at every single outdoor café in Germany all summer long, people would eat the sugar and create a diabetes epidemic.
At least that was my impression in Berlin; wasps got all the sugar, Berliners stayed pretty thin for the most part.
Sounds like i need more wasps in my house!
Ah, this explains the bitterness of Berliners
I'll add my own annecdote to this article. We had a wasp nest under the eaves of the house and I managed to successfully move them into a little hutch I built near the garden. I can't say I directly observed them saving the tomatoes, but we did have fewer tomato hornworms than in previous years.
They were also really docile and tolerated a good deal of me fumbling around with the nest. I waited until it was cold out and covered up pretty thouroghly, but they were mostly content to let me flop them around with a set of long BBQ tongs.
Despite their aggression and desire for sugar, wasps are useful and important pollinators the same way that bees are.
They also annihilate the bees which are much better pollinators
Germany has some very silly laws.
The wasp protection one gets broken all the time for obvious reasons.
I've come around on wasps. They just do their thing. You got stung? Don't tread on them.
Sometimes wasps have other ideas about "treading on them" like "You are near and made a sudden move, you are threat". It gets worse when you are allergic to wasps. I've worked near a place where transport company cleaned their syrup and milk carrying trailers, so we sometimes had a lot of wasps and one of coworkers had to constantly have adrenaline with him. If he got stung and couldn't do it himself, we were trained on how to jab him and call ambulance.
> one of coworkers had to constantly have adrenaline with him. If he got stung and couldn't do it himself, we were trained on how to jab him and call ambulance.
FWIW, this bit is true of everyone I've known who was aware of an anaphylactic allergy, independent of their likelihood of exposure to the allergen. "Carry an EpiPen, know how to use it, make sure some of the people around you are aware of your allergy and know how to handle a reaction" is a very light-weight and reliable solution to "something relatively common could easily kill me".
sounds more like a repugnant fact to me
Very ignorant! One can avoid wasps initially, or also later move them more peacefully. They are very important pollinators (we lack more&more) and even have more cool duties. Not sure about your wasps over there, the annoyance factor of the wasps in Germany is usually heavily overdramatized and human arrogance at its best.
In the US, it's yellowjackets (vespinae, minus the hornets) that are rather annoying. They are attracted to sugar and meat, and sting rather aggressively, which makes outdoor barbecues unpleasant (to put it mildly); paper-wasps (Polistinae) are indeed rather easy to live alongside, but they look quite similar so inherit the bad-rap that yellowjackets have.
The Central European wasp is a yellowjacket, Vespula germanica. It is very attracted to sweets and foods especially in the autumn. However, it does not usually sting unless there's a reason, such as you're trying to sit on it.
I myself have had zero stings of any bee or wasp in my life so I prefer to gently coax them away from my plate. Some people are absolutely terrified about them though so "just let them be" rarely seems to be good advice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vespula_germanica
Edit: actually I don't know which one is more common, Vespula germanica or Vespula vulgaris. I wouldn't be able to differentiate between them.
> I prefer to gently coax them away from my plate
In my experience your hand is a minor annoyance that they'll fly around and continue eating. Only way to have peace is to lay traps around your eating area.
> so I prefer to gently coax them away from my plate
I’ve found wasps extremely persistent and confident in ways most insects never are.
It’s one thing to gentle swat them but when they come back for 5-10min straight it's understandable why people don't like them.
I also got bit on the mouth as a child when I drank a can of coke that had a wasp inside so I'm not exactly unbiased.
Where I live paper wasps are aggressive and multiply quite rapidly. We went from one next to dozens in just a couple of years. I probably get stung at least once a year.
"yeah, what did wasps ever do to you?" attack the shit out of me for no good reason!
Avoid your own house or yard? Annoyance? Tell that to my wife, my brother in law, my uncle, my cousin, or my good friend. They all could literally die if stung, and have all been to the hospital at least once after a sting.
Average human in the middle of a massive, probably partially man made, extinction: "lmao I don't like them let's kill them"
in comparison, when I bought a live-catch mousetrap recently, the guy at the store said it was illegal to release the mouse in the county. (implying you should buy the catch-and-kill trap variety)
I suppose it's legal to pack it and ship it to the Bundestag or whichever authority came up with that law then.
I dislike wasps - BUT the good thing if you find a nest, is the knowledge that they will never return to a nest the following year - so the next actually becomes something that will help prevent future wasp infestations.
When we bought our last house I changed a light fitting and live wasps poured out - I was freaked out, and put the fitting straight back.
A few days later I went into the attic to put some boxes up there and found a HUGE nest near the light fitting. I put my hand on it and could feel and warmth and buzz of the wasps. It was already mid summer so I just left it (there were not loose wasps in the attic - their entrance/exit was into the eves of the house).
By autumn they were gone, and we never again had a wasp issue in our house in the 10 years we lived there. I changed the light fitting the following spring.
I've found that a wasp nest is still a hint that wasps will make nests nearby.
I had a shed (and a car) that had empty nests and then got nests nearby later.
There has been a wasp nest inside a tree in my yard for 5 years.
Maybe it is just British wasps? https://www.mjbpestcontrol.co.uk/news/how-do-you-know-if-a-w....
All those use-cases you've described actually seem really practical, especially the fraud detection. Being able to detect things that would otherwise be invisible or require physical contact to ascertain already makes it a worthwhile EDC tool in my opinion.
I’ve got a Seek Thermal attachment from my iPhone I got on cyber Monday a few years ago. Once you have one you find all sorts of uses for them.
All things considered, 4 years is pretty good!
Someone explained to me it's more of a supply chain thing than planned obsolescence. Phone technology and batteries specifically have pretty short production lives - keeping a battery in production and in stock for long periods of time can be crippling to your product line when the competitors come out with 10% denser batteries every year.
So sell compatible size higher density batteries.
Actual disposable batteries (remember those?) have improved dramatically over the decades but you can still put a brand new AA battery loaded with the latest 2022 tech into a remote control from the 50s and expect it to work.
>Actual disposable batteries
they have the same form factor, and they have not changed much over decades in capability and certainly not size.
Phone batteries do not do this - they are designed to fit in a certain (few) phones, and market change on phone sizes mean there is no standard size.
When phone batteries get higher density, then it's likely a readeoff between adding more other features and keeping the same battery size - and as other features change, so do battery needs. The rapid evolution of phone tech, in every aspect, makes it cheaper (and wiser) to re-eval each piece quickly, or you get beat in the market place.
Maybe in decades this will settle down, like it took for the disposable batteries to standardize over decades...
> Phone batteries do not do this - they are designed to fit in a certain (few) phones, and market change on phone sizes mean there is no standard size.
It would be nice if that wasn't the case.
I've seen power tools from certain companies adopt the same battery type across multiple of their tools, so that they are interchangeable. I can imagine something like that happening industry-wide with a bit more lawmaking, like happened with USB types.
Actually, it would be even better if we had a few common phone battery standards and every manufacturer had to use those (ideally with removable batteries). This might mean that phones would have to be built with the batteries in mind, not vice versa, which doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.
Then again, personally I wouldn't even mind if there were like 10-20 common phone form factors in the first place.
Have you seen AMPShare Alliance [1]? It's a common 18-volt battery tool platform with many partners.
Mostly industrial/professional tools so far but I hope it will continue to grow. Yes, I have Bosch stuff. :)
There is also the Cordless Alliance System[1]. The problem they are all small players except Bosch. Once two of the big players (Bosch, Makita, Milwaukee, Dewalt, etc.) start sharing batteries hen it will make a difference. Bosch don't even share batteries between their blue and green lineup.
haha, TTI doesnt even share batteries between its own brands, and you expect manufacturers to adopt same standard? :D
https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-...
> I've seen power tools from certain companies adopt the same battery type across multiple of their tools
That's because electric power tools are sold as a platform: you choose a brand and buy in to their platform. For example I mainly use a driver + drill so bought in to Milwaukee. Ended up buying a lot of other kit from them too.
> with a bit more lawmaking
No thanks. Things like this almost always have unintended consequences.
Because the opposite doesn't have unintended consequences ? Do you know what we do with e waste ? ship them to Africa/China for """recycling"""
you could say that about literally any law. should we just not have laws then, lest there be unintended consequences?
A silly question then: why there are no AA/AAA rechargeable batteries that are Li-Ion/Li-Poly/whatever chemistry is used in smartphone batteries? Seems like a no-brainer to me: use the apparently better, more advanced, more energy-dense chemistry, but in a standard AA/AAA format. Pack whatever control electronics you need for safety too. Not only my remote controls would have half a decade of battery life, an iPhone could be powered off 2 such AAs, instead of 8-10 regular ones like other commenters here calculated.
Why isn't it done? Where's the catch?
The catch is that Li-Ion rechargeable batteries have much higher self-discharge rate than alkaline AA/AAAs, so you could not use them in remote controls anyway.
For powering iPhones, you can buy a few 18650 with a type-C/lightning case from AliExpress, but most people will prefer just buying a powerbank.
> The catch is that Li-Ion rechargeable batteries have much higher self-discharge rate than alkaline AA/AAAs, so you could not use them in remote controls anyway.
How does that compare with NiMh, or whichever is the current standard chemistry for rechargeable AA/AAAs? I may be misguided here, but I generally avoid regular single-use AA/AAAs, as it feels like a complete waste of energy - even if properly disposed of, I don't imagine they get recharged by some factory and put back on the market, so all the embodied energy that went into making them is lost.
> For powering iPhones, you can buy a few 18650 with a type-C/lightning case from AliExpress, but most people will prefer just buying a powerbank.
At least some of the power banks I've disassembled in the past were just 18650s with a case, USB port and charging circuitry, so I can't blame people for buying it already pre-assembled.
NiMh is better but alkaline still lasts longer. For low drain devices like remotes where shelf life is a bigger concern than power draw, I’ve heard zinc is better still. These are often labeled “heavy duty.”
The Li chemistry produces much higher voltages and so would require step down circuitry to function as a direct replacement for AA/AAA. If you are talking about form factor, then there are a lot of similar size or smaller cells available.
I'm talking about having rechargeable AA/AAAs with higher power density, possibly using the same chemistry as in phones, laptops, drones, etc., so the industry could cut down on the amount of variation in sizes and connector types (which could possibly make the batteries somewhat cheaper thanks to less variation in manufacturing - though I suppose the price driver is still the chemistry).
What's the minimum voltage we could get without intervention? I'm not well-versed in batteries, but I do recall that a typical Li-Ion cell has 3.7V on output, which might be tricky to fit into one AA/AAA, but isn't that far from two AA/AAAs.
While there's no standard way for devices to accept multiple AA/AAAs, to a first approximation, a Li-Ion cell reformatted into a shape of two AAs with ~1-2mm "space" between them, would fit all my remotes and a third of my children's toys - so I could see a "Li-Ion double AA" working as a product, provided it could shed that 0.7V somewhere. The biggest problem would be devices accepting odd number of batteries.
They sell double-AA sized rechargeable batteries for XBox controllers. https://www.xbox.com/en-GB/accessories/batteries-chargers/pl...
This specific battery is unlikely to work for other devices because the controller has an extra connector, presumably to detect it and control charging (which happens over a USB cable). You'd at least need an XBox controller to charge it.
There are standard formats for cells in Lithium-based chemistries, but they are different sizes then the Ni-based ones because of the entirely different voltages. How (not) commonly they are used tells you something how much industry cares about avoiding many different sizes. (part of it is probably also that round cells are space-inefficient in devices that aren't tube-shaped - most common consumer use cases where the consumer handles individual cells are flashlights and vape devices, and some markets do have proprietary designs as de-facto standards)
Some manufacturers also make Li-Ion replacements for multi-AA devices, but thats then specific to manufacturer and device and the exact placement it expects.
I think the issue is that li-ion isn't that much better than NiMH as to be worth it. It's also worth noting that there are already standard sized Li-ion batteries. 18650 batteries (so called because they are 18mm diameter by 650mm long) are the most common, but there are a bunch of other standard sizes. These are commonly used in things torches (flashlights) and headlamps.
There might be some market but anecdotally, AA/AAA as a widely accepted platform, and for that matter replaceable batteries in general, seem to be a thing of past.
I do have devices where the 2xAAs are in a column configuration.
Edit: Replaced remote with devices (it's a keyboard not a remote)
Regular single-use alkaline AA batteries are more energy dense than comparable rechargeable lithium based ones (up to 3000mAh for a single AA vs 3200mAh for iPhone 14 Pro). They're also safer and have lower self-discharge.
That's 3000 mAh @1.5V vs. 3200mAh @...3.7V? That would give those alkaline AAs half of the energy density of a lithium one. And, that's single-use, which I'm not a fan of, because all the energy embodied in a heavy metal cylinder goes to waste.
The phone battery is bigger. For perspective, an 18650 battery is substantially bigger than a AA, but the best they can do is ~3500mAh. Iirc AA lithium batteries are barely more dense than alkaline or nickel, and are awkwardly high voltage so require a buck corcuit, further harming performance.
Lithium chemistry in a AA form factor, with integrated downconversion and even charging port and circuitry in each individual battery, are cheaply available on Amazon, eBay, newegg etc. Depending on how much you want to spend, they range from no-name companies lying about huge capacities, to real brands advertising (unfortunately in mWh!) genuinely useful capacities, and they are CHEAP. They handily beat Ni-mh batteries in pretty much every way; capacity, self discharge, useful voltage until they die (this actually has a downside in that device battery indicators can't tell that the batteries are running low), cycle lifetime, no annoying management like having to be careful when and how you charge your batteries etc.
High capacity rechargeable NiMH and lithium batteries are 1.2V.
You’d need a buck converter for discharging the battery, and they aren’t much better than NiMH batteries at it. So it’s cheaper to just buy Eneloops if you want AA/AAA batteries
I have some such AAA batteries. Not for the extra capacity - I'm not convinced they actually have any better capacity than the NiMH I was using before, but because they hold 1.5V for the duration of their charge, and for some reason my headphone can't cope with less than 1.5V.
There are such batteries, I saw them on Aliexpress. They are not cheap, though.
> Phone batteries do not do this - they are designed to fit in a certain (few) phones, and market change on phone sizes mean there is no standard size.
But the voltage remains the same: 3.7 discharged and 4.2 volts fully charged.
I really don't care if the outer dimensions of the battery are sloppy by 5 mm or if the capacity is smaller (or larger) by a few hundred or even a thousand mAh - so long as I can replace the _absolutely dead_ battery already in the device. I'll pad out the rest with styrofoam or even just squeeze some tacky clay in there to prevent it from rattling.
It's a choice we make, not a God given rule that we have to abid to or perish in fire
Imagine a smartphone designed to use AAA batteries. That would be something. Would be cool to see.
I’ve recently started using active noise cancellation headphones that are powered by a single AAA battery, and this significantly lightened my battery life anxiety[0]. It’s a completely different feeling when a device that’s with you every day is not “disposable” anymore and liberating to not be hostage to battery condition. It’ll probably last for as long as I maintain it, and if charge runs out at an inconvenient moment I can simply pop in a spare.
In case of smartphones it could work if we go through a fundamental shift: switch to e-ink or similar, reduce expectations of hardware performance, be much more efficient as app developers and have reliable ways of testing that efficiency. I’d welcome this personally, but I doubt even Apple with its marketing prowess could make it desirable for mainstream audiences after years of stressing CPU, GPU, RAM numbers and gaming capabilities.
I suspect it’s probably less of a possibility with laptops. Keeping battery designs proprietary, being free from regulatory friction, being able to charge for replacement is probably part of the incentives that got them where they are in terms of capacity and size. If we mandated using standardized easily replaceable batteries a la AA/AAA, we would have bulkier laptops that can’t last a day (let alone on any demanding task), and spares would be too bulky to carry for those who want to walk light.
[0] Stressing over battery charge and battery health of our devices. A situation where battery runs out just as we vitally need the device is enough to be in once, so we charge defensively. We also know that battery health decreases over time (the device is gradually “used up”), and we try to prolong it: we experience stress every time the battery is too low since this runs it down and every time we leave it connected for too long because constantly topping up the charge to 100% also runs it down. So we subconsciously track short-term battery charge and long-term battery health, and we are painfully aware that they deteriorate with every second—and unlike external wear, this deterioration concerns not aesthetics but device’s ability to be more than a brick. (It is probably less concerning to those who drive a fossil fuel car everywhere, those who spend most of their time home or at work, or those who feel financially and ethically OK just getting a new device whenever it seems as if the battery doesn’t hold or a new model comes out.)
My Newton MessagePad 2100 used 4 AA batteries, the Palm m105 used 2 AAA batteries, so this used to be possible with monochrome displays.
But: Watt hours (Wh) are quite low for these NiMH rechargebles. I think what would be preferable would be a standardised size of phone-fitting Li-Ion batteries that manufacturers are required to use.
(I highly doubt that this will ever happen, though.)
pretty sure >10 years ago I had an array of aftermarket Li-Ion batteries for the Samsung Galaxy S2, which were able to be quickly swapped in and out when needed. there were same sized ones with slightly higher capacity than the one the phone came with, then there were double thickness ones with double the capacity that came with their own replacement battery cover. think they went up to 5000mAh. there were the usual Chinese 'gold' and 'fire' brands, but you could also pay a bit more for Japanese. they all worked and never swelled or exploded. perhaps I was just lucky. those were the days..
Years before, the typical (at the time very common at least here) Motorola MicroTac and later models:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_MicroTAC
had a battery which was the actual "back cover" (it was connected to the phone via sliding), and everyone had at least two batteries, there were all kind of slim to bulkier sizes.
Some of them (medium sized) simply contained 5 (Ni-Cd or Ni-Mh) AAA batteries.
> Would be cool to see.
Probably not the word I’d have used. You’d need what, 6 high-capacity AAAs to get standard battery size/life? Maybe 8? Possibly 10 with recent phones?
An iPhone 14 Pro has a 3,200mAh battery.
The Energiser rechargeable AAA I happen to have here is 800mAh.
So exactly four standard rechargeable AAAs. Not bad really.
Edit: As explained below, this is incorrect, as I didn't take voltage into account.
"mAh" is a useless measurement that should be banned from marketing to the public, period. It does not actually represent the energy stored in the batteries, and it can easily mislead people. I also get annoyed that no one uses Ah, when "thousands of thousandths" is a really annoying way to communicate. 3200mAh -> 3.2Ah. Why do no manufacturers understand this? And why don't manufacturers just use a proper unit that measures the energy stored in the battery?
You must compare watt-hours (or use joules, if you like) for it to be meaningful. AAA voltage is 1.5V, lithium ion voltage is 3.7V or 4.2V or something, which means that each "mAh" is worth several times as much as one from a AAA battery.
The iPhone 14 Pro battery is about 12Wh. A single AAA battery has about 1.9Wh, according to google. So, 6 AAA batteries, optimistically, excluding other factors that could raise the count. Using your number of 800mAh*1.5V=1.2Wh, which would mean 10 AAA batteries.
The load characteristics also matter. Under certain load profiles those AAAs won't come even close to their rated capacity (no matter what misleading unit used). I also find the 1.9wh very optimistic, I guess you took the average AA capacity, in which case the battery would almost become bigger than the phone.
1.9 seems like a typo as 12/1.9 is 6.3, nowhere near 10. 800mAh seems to be a pretty available capacity and yields 1200mWh which tracks with the factor.
Though I think I’ve seen up to 1200.
1.9Wh was the number I saw on Google. 10 was just me not thinking clearly late at night. I updated my comment.
Load characteristics do complicate things as well, but I figured even the optimistic case involved enough batteries to dissuade anyone from this idea.
There are other non-rechargeable chemistries that are far more energy dense than AAA batteries, and those might be interesting to discuss.
Preach brother.
I guess it kinda worked when everything was 1.5V but even then it was pretty stupid, and it’s been a while.
And I feel like we’ve regressed somehow? Didn’t every smartphone use to advertise battery capacity in (m)Wh, like laptops? I feel like just a few years ago that was the prominent measure, and you’d get voltage and Ah as side-notes, e.g. the iPhone 12 wiki page states
> 3.83 V 10.78 Wh (2,815 mAh)
mAh is perfectly fine for a first-order comparison of two competing batteries, because those two batteries will only compete for a specific workload if they have the same voltage. If I need a phone with a large battery, and all phones are 3.8 volts (yes, I do mean 3.7-4.2) then comparing mAh is useful, (assuming background battery usage of the two devices is similar, which actually isn't often true, but that's a different issue).
> mAh is perfectly fine for a first-order comparison of two competing batteries
And yet it’s still dumb, because the actual energy density would let you make the exact same comparison anyway, and it would allow for easier comparison with other battery types or contexts.
> If I need a phone with a large battery, and all phones are 3.8 volts (yes, I do mean 3.7-4.2) then comparing mAh is useful
It’s not, there’s a >10% difference between the top and the bottom of the range.
Just give actual energy values, it’s strictly more useful.
Advertisers don’t care about useful. Many customers see mWh and mAh and think “that’s probably the same… and look! this one has thousands of em!”
Weirdly this doesn’t even hold, every battery is more than 1V so the Wh is always larger than the Ah. Makes no sense.
I think the mAh stays more or less constant no matter how fast you discharge the battery, but as current increases, the voltage drops so the total watt-hours is lower.
Hmmm that does make some sense, so a Wh value would either be approximate (off of the average / nominal battery voltage) or it would need to be a non-trivial integration over the battery’s voltage change?
It would be easier to have a new standard of Li-Ion or Li-poly batteries optimized for newer devices, with flat rectangular (stackable?) packs. They would also be suitable for the current demands of current devices. (see what I did there?)
We absolutely could.
But we won't as manufacturers want to use batteries in shapes they want. In the case of laptops of bigger this also often ends up with there still being space despite them using a custom size.
We were pretty close to a couple of standards of Li-Ion flat battery in the mid to late 00s, at least in Europe, due to proliferation of Nokia and Sony Ericsson. Nokia especially had some batteries that they used across several models. And the voltage and current being the same, you could also use smaller batteries in some models.
The latter has been useful for the 808 PureView I have. Getting the specific battery that it used is now impossible. But it can take a very common Nokia battery with a slightly lower capacity.
I have one. But is a nokia from the 80ies
Loved those. You could get an extended battery, nearly doubling the thickness of the phone.
> All things considered, 4 years is pretty good!
4 years would be fine if you voluntarily upgrade because a newer model improves over what you have in an appreciable way. 4 years isn't fine if the device meets your needs and the only reason you have to replace it is because of the battery wearing out.
I think we can all agree that maximizing profit is a cause, while also acknowledging that the situation is not ideal. There are many solutions to this self-imposed problem, like standardizing the battery interfaces.
I agree most company's have no incentive to do that. I think those incentives should be put in place though.
I don't understand why everyone is acting like replacement batteries are unavailable.
Here's an amazon link to a variety of options:
https://www.amazon.com/CAT-S60-Cell-Phone-Replacement-Batter...
The statement about battery not being replaceable is false. They are replaceable. But the phone body is sealed to deliver the water and dust resistance rating from its technical specs, so opening it is an entire new adventure in itself.
Water resistant (e.g. 30 min / 1 m) mobile phones with exchangeable batteries were quite common. They had easy to procure LiIon batteries which could replaced even by a clumsy person in minutes.
Would prefer that to a watertight phone with non replaceable batteries as aging or dying batteries are more common in my experience than my desire to go on a dive with my phone.
> Water resistant (e.g. 30 min / 1 m) mobile phones with exchangeable batteries were quite common
I wouldn't say they were common, at least not for android smartphones. The first water resistant android phone was the Motorola Defy[1] in 2010. For Samsung they had the S4 Active and then the S5 had some water resistance. But then the S6 removed support for replaceable batteries. So the only Samsung phones with easily replaceable batteries and any water resistance were the S4 Active, S5 Active and the S5.
I think you're right that IP67 (30min / 1 meter) is probably achievable but I think most people prefer the better water resistance and by the time their phone battery degrades sufficiently they usually want a new phone. Additionally it's already possible to get your battery replaced. At least Apple will replace your phone battery going back to the 5S for $49 up to $99 for current models. I prefer this model where I have a trustworthy place to get the battery serviced that will preserve the water resistance for a somewhat reasonable price. I tried to look at the battery replacement cost for Samsung phones but couldn't find it, so maybe that's not a service they offer directly or it's just difficult to find.
[1] https://www.androidauthority.com/first-water-resistant-andro...
Agree. With common I was thinking of "not specialized rugged phones" but more consumer class. (As you have written Samsung S5, S5 mini, ...)
Yes, but the point is that they are now only available on very niche devices.
There was a brief period where common devices had ingress resistance and easily removeable batteries. The most notable being the Samsung Galaxy S5.
If the manufactures wanted to they could easily make a sealed phone and a sealed battery and just clip them together. The extra thickness of two layers of waterproofing between them is arguable on a fashion phone but irrelevant on a product like this.
My last flip phone had a replaceable battery and was waterproof: the cover had a rubber gasket and you had to use a coin or key to pry it open.
I'm actually considering buying a IR camera for testing insulation (I have a contractor working in my apartment and due to various instance of clear fraud from him I have no confidence or trust in him anymore). Would a HTI HT-102 be enough or is it better to get a better sensor?
32x32 sensor is useless. You need at least 160x120px.
Cell phone attachment cameras have compatibility problems. For example, find reviews for Flir One Pro. If the cell cannot find the camera, then it's pretty useless.
I remember a few years back you could buy the cheapest FLIR camera and upgrade it to the expensive model with a firmware hack.
It’s ok to have a camera that is not a telephone
It's ok, but it does drastically reduce its utility. Conversely, anything that can be put into smartphone becomes much more useful. It often makes a difference between just having a tool for some odd job vs. gaining a capability.
The reason is simple: you always have your phone on you, or near you. It's the most easily accessible piece of electronics, and - if you're storage limited - the last one you're likely to leave behind. There is a generic social acceptance of everyone having a phone on them (even if stashed in a pocket).
A FLIR camera as a separate device? I'm unlikely to carry it with me unless I have a specific reason, and people will look at me weird if I walk around with one. A smartphone-attachable FLIR camera? It's still a hassle to carry, there's a good chance I'll leave one behind (comparable to a bluetooth headset). A FLIR camera built into smartphone? On me all the time, everywhere, and always ready to use in random, unpredictable situations.
And yes, it's the same reason why regular smartphone cameras all but killed the compact camera as a product. Having a tool always on you expands possible use cases so much it offsets for suboptimal performance/form factor.
I recently found myself avoiding my phone for various reasons. At home I'd rather get work done (wfh) and I prefer to leave it at home when I go for walks. But my phone is also my camera, so now whenever I see something beautiful, I am unable to photograph it.
I read the other day that compact camera sales had dropped by 98%. I guess I'm one of the 2% that actually has a need for one now.
Grab something used with enough megapixels. I used an old Canon A590IS for years, even after I had a slew of Nikon dSLRs. I've found random compacts over 10MP for less than 20 dollars while thrifting. Completely competent images in day light tbqh. Low light and video capabilities are what really lags when compared to more recent camera tech but I've always limitation breeds creativity.
Just use airplane mode. I use it all the time, for this purpose exactly. Sometimes I am just not available - people have to accept that.
FLIR camera should also be able to pick up some UFO/UAP in the skies as well. Yay! Now nearly everyone can see some.
Nice idea, but I think for THIS application the FOV is to large and the resolution (160*120?) is to low. Of course the extraterrestrial knew that and therefore allowed the integration of the lapton chip into the phone <8-)
I use a dedicated thermal camera with bit higher resolution but higher FPS. As others have written they are quite useful as you see thing (even not ET) you could have measured with an IR thermometer if you knew they were there.
> Of course the extraterrestrial knew that and therefore allowed the integration of the lapton chip into the phone <8-)
That's silly. The real reason is that the ITAR prohibits you from being able to get a higher-resolution thermal camera, which is one of several laws implementing a complex, global ban on technologies that would let regular people spot the aliens. You can thank a secret UN subcommittee for that; they've botched negotiations with aliens so badly that our governments are now forced to do the "hiding from people" work for them.
Do satellites show up on infrared cameras? Or are you talking about some sort of aircraft?
Cant say for devices with higher resolution and stronger magnification (e.g. for hunting) but i don't think so too. Definitely not for the resolution and magnification we are talking here.
not really.. low resolution and focused in short range
i dont even get a blip when looking at airplanes with my thermal camera
> The lack of a replacable battery is infuriating because it's planned obselescence of a FLIR device.
I thought the move away from easily removable cases and batteries was more for waterproofing reasons?
Plus, I'm guessing the battery can be replaced, just not by the average user. I'm sure you could get it replaced if you're willing to pay a repair fee.
It doesn't have to prevent it from being waterproof, see for example Samsung Galaxy XCover 6 Pro which has removable battery and IP68 rating.
I really wish phone manufacturers started making flagship-like phones with a removable battery.
I'm sort of reminded of how cellphone cameras became used for selfies.
I wonder what other use cases previously "serious" technology will be used for.
I remember someone had a magnet of some sort embedded in their finger and could detect current fluctuations in underground electrical systems underneath a city sidewalk.
I used the S62 as a daily driver for a couple of years and it was fairly decent. The convenience of having a thermal camera in your pocket at all times was remarkable, and it's one of those things you kind of miss when it's gone (my daily use for it was checking if the coffee was cool enough to drink--yes, I know my tasting organs provide much of the same functionality...) However, the resolution of the thermal camera wasn't particularly great, and the 9 fps refresh rate was also a bit limiting. Still, for checking for drafts, occasional electronics repairs and a general party trick it was great.
Eventually I got a new phone from work, which I grudgingly accepted since I wanted Android 12 and a better visible-light camera, but I missed the thermal cam sufficiently that I got an Infiray P2 off Ali as a plug-in substitute. The resolution and refresh rate are a lot better than the Cat, but having to carry an extra dongle (and plugging it in, starting the app, restarting the app when it crashes...) sometimes makes me consider going back. If/when Cat makes a successor, I'd be very tempted to get it.
Edit: The usb-c cam in question for those who are interested https://www.infiray.com/p2-pro-thermal-camera-for-smartphone... (available from the usual suspects)
Using a thermal camera in the kitchen is under-rated. I sometimes do the same.
Was inspired by this old linux.conf.au talk (that I attended in person) about a microwave with a thermal camera in the top. I would love the same above my kitchen stove: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3DADx5z-XY
I'm a die-hard iPhone user so sadly a built-in won't work for me. I currently have a first generation Lightning FLIR One.
It's pretty limited, only a single temperature measurement, no min/max scale you can see (it just auto calibrates), has a terrible rechargable battery and doesn't work with an iPhone case.. but I got it for the bargain basement price of $100 AUD ($67 USD) on Marketplace.
My interest is more related to home effeciency (looking at gaps in insulation etc) but has been fun in the kitchen too.
I'd love one of the newer ones but haven't wanted to justify the cost and happy with my bargain aquisiton :)
You can buy a stove that uses probes to monitor the temps and hold/stick to a preset program https://www.breville.com/us/en/products/commercial/cmc850.ht...
I can't wait for these to become more mainstream so recipes start listing "Set stove to 150c" rather than "to medium" which is widely different depending on what stove you use. An amusing story one youtuber shared was the followed some advice that said to set your stove to high and leave it for 10 mins first, advice meant for a gas stove. When they tried it on an electric stove, the oil ignited on contact with the pan.
> advice meant for a gas stove
Can't imagine it would be any different result. 10 minutes preheat on any range is a lot. My cast iron pan started turning silvery blue well before the 10 minute mark with my gas range on high.
Some induction tops have similar functionality - measuring the temperature of the pan and keeping at that temperature. It's not as precise as a probe, of course, but it's extremely convenient and useful.
I have used a control freak (mentioned above).
All the induction cooktops I've used (both builtin and plug-in) have been REALLY useless at temperature control. Even the heat settings leave a lot to be desired, they are very coarse.
The control freak is orders of magnitude better at temperature control. I suspect it is not only the design and quality of the sensors, but the algorithms used to maintain the temperature (probably good PID).
There are two sensors:
a small glass covered sensor built into the center of the heating element that is spring-loaded and gets the heat off the bottom of the pan.
a second plug-in sensor with a cable, that can be attached to the side of a pot using an insulator gadget and suspended in the middle of whatever you're cooking.
Another pretty critical part is the "programs" you can write.
For example, you could make a "hamburger" program to bring the pan up to temperature, then beep to add the burger, then flip it later, then remove it and do another.
Do you have experience with such a hob? I'd like to get one, but have found little info except marketing from manufacturers.
I would assume those would be mostly useful for frying/searing meat, vegetables, and eggs with little oil. As soon as you have more liquid in the pot you won't be able to control the temperature by measuring the temp at the bottom.
Do they work well with different pans?
> As soon as you have more liquid in the pot you won't be able to control the temperature by measuring the temp at the bottom.
That sounds like an interesting engineering challenge! Assuming we have a stove with a fast-acting heat source (e.g. induction) and high-frequency thermometer (> 1 Hz), what can we learn about the contents of the pot/pan?
I'm thinking: dump a set amount of energy into the pan (say, 0.5 seconds at "power boost" level), then watch the thermometer. Do it several times, with varying pulse lengths (say, 0.1 to 1 second - you don't want to burn anything on the pan, nor wait too long for it to cool down). This should give you a good idea of the pan's step and impulse response, and - I think - you could guesstimate what its contents are - particularly, if there are any liquids in it, and what they are. Then, continue with normal cooking, but keep a continuous record of power output vs. temperature measurement, and possibly occasionally pause and do a round of such pulse tests again.
I see no obvious reason this wouldn't give a stove quite good control authority even in the presence of liquids, including those that are added or naturally seep out during cooking. I also don't expect any of the appliance companies to ever include this level of sophistication in their products.
Actually, I have a portable induction stove that I can set the temperature and it kind of works exactly the way you described it.
I do. I've got a Panasonic hob that's got two types of sensor: one which covers ranges of 140-220 C, and one which covers 60-120.
I find it very convenient. It's not perfect, because of course a sensor looking at the bottom of a pan can't be, but in practice we've found it very handy for the boil function (bring water to a boil @ 100 deg, drop back to 95 and hold there; making candy/fudge that requires holding around 80 degrees, making proper custard for things like creme caramel. The higher temperatures are good for things like dealing with meats, since I can dial in a temp and not fuss over what's going on.
The thing that has surprised me is how relaxing it is to use - as I say, I feel as though I'm fussing over what I'm cooking less.
That said, they're accurate to only 5 degree increments at best, and I wouldn't try using them for something like a sous-vide replacement.
Yes, I'm wondering how well these temperature measurements work with metallic surfaces that are almost fully reflective.
Particularly useful for "fast heat-up" combined with "don't fry the pan"
Serious cooking books always focus on reproducibility and actual processes happening at certain temperatures in your food.
Any recommendations? Can't think of any such book owned by anyone I know.
I often jest that cooking is just process chemistry, but done without proper tools and without caring about quality of the outcome.
Modernist Cuisine is one I highly recommend.
I've been using a BlackView 9900 Pro for over a year, and attest to the surprising usefulness of the built-in thermal camera, such as checking how well food is heated after microwaving, or even watching the heat distribution of rolling, boiled water.
My phone's battery is degraded now and I'm dreading a switch to something else. I've eyed the S62 but don't think it's an upgrade.
I'm confused, why not just replace the battery? They're available and if you're not good with fiddly disassembly jobs you can probably find someone to do it relatively cheaply.
completely fair, although the BV has a layer of anti-slip rubber on the back panel (which I also came to appreciate), so replacing the battery will probably require ripping that layer off (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zikXifsPDT0 if curious)
that said, I've abused the phone enough that maybe I should find a replacement for the rubber too.
Agreed. I'd hold off a bit if I were you, unless your current battery is completely busted. Might even be worth seeing if you can replace the battery. The S62 is over 2 years old, and considering Cat hasn't updated it past Android 11, they may have something new on the horizon--unless they plan to exit the phone market entirely, of course, which I guess is also a possibility.
Every Cat phone I've looked at was on the high end of pricing at the time it came out and on the older end of operating systems. I've been in the market for a serious rugged phone basically the whole time I've had cell phones and Cat has never been justifiable to me.
I lucked out and grabbed a Galaxy Xcover pro when they first came out. It's not really advertised for the consumer market, but it was also way cheaper than things I liked less that had been out for a year longer. I'm not sure if they'll come out with a new model anytime soon. I will say this thing has a removable battery, solid construction, and is plenty fast for me (though I'm not picky on speed). I'm still on the original battery and it will play music for 10 hours through my Bluetooth headphones and still have 30% battery by the time I get home. I really have no complaints.
EDIT: the Xcover does not have an IR camera. I got off on a tangent because I keep getting disappointed every time I look into Cat phones.
the 9 FPS I believe are because US manufacturers aren't allowed to export thermal cameras above 9 FPS
Afaik higher FPS cameras can be sold to individuals but are ITAR controlled. I know at one point at least Seek had a higher rate version and anyone could buy it, but you had to provide documentation.
Imported 25 FPS thermal cameras are sold in US.
yes, but import is the opposite of export
What matters for US consumers is that both 9fps and 25fps are on Amazon for similar prices, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33890299
I was just explaining why the cat phone has only 9 fps. It's using a FLIR sensor.
ITAR
>(my daily use for it was checking if the coffee was cool enough to drink--yes, I know my tasting organs provide much of the same functionality...)
For tea I pretty much found the right amount of cooling time once and now I just repeat it. I boil water, steep for 5 minutes (with a timer), then when that 5 minutes is up I remove the bag and start an 18 minute timer. It's still pretty hot but slowly drinkable then, and within a couple minutes can be comfortably consumed quickly as well. I don't even try to drink before my timers are done anymore as I don't want to scald myself.
I think I also did some experimentation with a laser thermometer, but I don't recall what numbers I landed at, and this way I don't need to wonder how long it will take either. The time also lines up pretty well with eating breakfast if done all together.
> my daily use for it was checking if the coffee was cool enough to drink
My wife has the same issue with hot coffee which drives me a little nuts. She uses a normal mug most of the time. Because she isn't certified in coffee temp detection like I am; she waits and waits, gets distracted, and eventually it becomes too cold. So she reheats it in the microwave, usually to the point where it's too hot, and that cycle continues after it gets too cold again. She's probably reheated coffee in the microwave up to 4-5 times a day at times. It's hilarious and ridiculous. As an engineer, admittedly, I enjoy the hilarity so much I'm not sure if I care about it being resolved!
The issue is two-fold:
1) She lets the coffee hit the outermost parts of her lips and subjects herself to getting destroyed by the high temp lol. I don't understand why this is so difficult for people. Your outermost lips are more sensitive. Don't do that. You don't attack hot coffee like it's a fine bourbon. Also you can feel the temp and steam to know not to even attempt based on your preference and tolerance.
2) She isn't sitting at a desk consistently like most of us. She's everywhere in the house and then leaves, and her coffee intake isn't a priority like many of us.
If I put her coffee in a stainless steel mug with a lid, then it takes too long to cool to her temp. She leaves the lid off to cool and then forgets about returning to it in time. And she doesn't end up drinking the coffee because it becomes too cool. So now she would have to transfer to a microwaveable mug to reheat and start that cycle so she doesn't even bother. If I'm prepping her a roadie coffee, I must pour it, leave the lid off for a period of time and then place it back on so she will attempt drinking it in time in the car to commit to it. If it's too hot, she will more than likely just abandon it and not check back in before we reach our destination.
I got her an Ember mug so she can read the actual temp and control it. But it's not dishwasher safe of course. So she doesn't tend to use it. And from the fresh brewed carafe to the Ember still is too hot, unless the lid is off for some time like the stainless steel mug, lol.
The ideal mug for her would thus be an Ember mug that is dishwasher safe and thus have some sort of twist mechanism to disconnect the battery and status/controls portion from the core mug function. And probably have a vent mechanism on the lid (maybe a double pop on the Ember lid to vent more?) to more quickly get the temp down from initial temp, as the heated mug portion can ensure the set temp is hit anyway.
Someone please build that and save me! Or don't, and I'll enjoy the entertainment derived from the struggle. :)
I also don't like hot coffee (or anything too hot, soups etc.) which drives my wife mad.
Before making coffee I put a cup into the fridge so the coffee will cool faster, I have not issues with cold coffee, I just don't want to wait that long.
I also used to add ice to coffee, but that was diluting it.
I used to do this with my Aeropress. I added an icecube on top of the ground coffee and poured boiling water over it. It reduced the temperature from 100°C to about 80°C if I remember correctly. Anyway, it came out ready to drink, and generally you can just brew with less water and then the dilution is not a problem.
Hello, it's me, I have the same coffee problems as your wife. A few things that really helped, used in increasing order of desperation:
1. Buying a temperature-adjustable kettle and making coffee at 185° or so instead of boiling. Bonus: I think the coffee tastes better anyway. I recently moved and couldn't take my fancy kettle with me, so now I pour cold water into the boiling kettle until I guesstimate I'm at 185. I guess this tip doesn't work if you're using a Mr. Coffee machine or whatever.
2. Giving the mug a really good blow as soon as the coffee is poured.
3. My wife bought me a few mugs that are much wider at the top than the bottom, meaning there's more exposed surface area and the coffee cools off quicker.
4. Adding an ice cube.
Instead of ice cubes you can also use frozen coffee cubes, it prevents dillution.
Or rocks. I have a set of mineral cubes in my freezer. I don't need them for coffee, since I like it scolding, but they are handy for other drinks I don't want to dilute.
I don't think it exists but it sounds like the best option for you would be a steel mug with a heated baseplate. The baseplate could detect the presence of a full mug with a force sensor and then start heating. When she makes her coffee she could place the mug on the baseplate and then keep it heated at her desired temperature. That way she could run around doing whatever and always have a warm coffee to sip on when she comes back to it.
For the price of washing two mugs instead of one, you can also pour the coffee through air from one to another a couple of times. That brings the temperature down much quicker comparing to just leaving it sit a while.
Helps to have containers that have an edge that is easy to pour from. Less spilling.
Same issue with my spouse. Solved it by buying a fancy manual espresso machine, and me learning to steam the milk to the correct temperature by feel. For tea we have an adjustable temperature electric kettle.
I remember seeing cubes that have solid inside that has melting point around (good temperature to drink coffee).
You put them in a cup and it
1. Quickly cools coffee to that temperature (by increasing temperature and melting). 2. Keeps coffee at that temperature for some point (doesn't go lower until liquid inside is back solid).
I've gave it a cursory google and can't find a name.
Maybe something like a magic mug:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_mug
could be made with ink/paint changes that show (very approximately) the temperature (I think the ones around have only on/off states).
This was far more entertaining to read than you probably intended. I find your ideas intr.... yeah that.
Sounds like a good marriage!
I'm thinking the next scientific instrument turned phone accessory is going to be raman spectroscopes. It could easily solve a lot of problems of things like adulterated food and drugs being so common. There's also research done that shows that many regular consumer phones on the market now have CCDs which are even sensitive enough as-is to read the laser reflection and sort out what the chemical is. There's an implementation here as an add on, but I want to see them embedded in the phones themselves! [1]
Note that that's not a Raman spectrometer, just a conventional grating or prism-based instrument. 3 nm resolution isn't too bad, though. Could be good for evaluating aquarium/houseplant lighting and things like that.
A Raman spectrometer is still a fairly exotic piece of hardware, requiring a laser, a notch filter for the laser's wavelength, and a very good conventional spectrophotometer to look for low-level sidebands. There have been some homebrew Raman implementations -- e.g., Ben Krasnow's at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRrOdKW06sk -- but nothing that would fit on the back of a smartphone.
Is there any way you could picture it fitting on the back of a smartphone?
Because some people definitely have [1]
[1] https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2021/ay/d1ay0...
Very cool, sign me up for one of those when they hit Kickstarter! It's pretty big and clunky, but still the smallest one I've seen.
Edit: already on sale at https://www.amazon.com/CloudMinds-Raman-Spectrometer/dp/B081... . $24,980.00. Maybe I'll hold back a bit on this one...
Give it three years max and it will be on the back of the new iphone
Raman is inherently difficult as it's so weak compared to normal scattering, so careful optimization of SNR is required.
Another DIY Raman setup (on a breadboard so expect few kg): https://www.thepulsar.be/article/openraman-starter-edition/
That's a great site. I like how he describes experiments, techniques, and components that didn't work out, along with the ones that did.
Yeah it's incredible what people are doing in their homes
Infuriating to see such a garbage video for a very promising technology. Either it is beyond fake, or they are just hiding the fact the tech they are working on doesn't work.
Why are you so mad it's literally just a product video with bad ESL English for something that's an active field of serious study
Look up cell phone raman spectroscope and there's many done over the past decade
I think people's readyness to slap "fake" on everything these days is the only travesty here
In fact they act like there is a product. Not about English language, just hold the product and show the features for 1 minute. That's it. The video is just stock videos with random effects. 3rd world or not, people come up with good product videos by reviewing what they have.
Seems they tried to raise money but failed, so unlikely to launch maybe?
https://www.pozible.com/project/zpecsen-mobile-spectrometer-...
> AU$0 of $19,800 target
> 2yrs ago
> Closed on 9th Feb 2021 at 5:00PM.
It's just a simple optical spectrometer, nothing fancy or unique. There actually is a Raman spectrometer that works with a phone, but it costs US $25K (see other comments below.)
That video looks like sketchy vaporware. Who would need to analyze liquids carefully placed in a vial with their phone? Sometimes machines need to be big. Theranos setup themselves up for failure by trying to miniaturize and combine equipment that could never be miniaturized or interfered with each other.
I don't know if you realize what a problem adulterated food and drugs are - So basically grocers and pharmacists in places where regulatory structures are weak
Keep in mind airports have this technology by now
A veritable tricoder in the making! Interesting times ahead.
I've had the competition's ruggedized android phone with a flir camera for a couple of years now? [1]
[1] https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001227941445.html
I don't love it like I did the nokia n900 but it is decent. It's an android that goes underwater, can take photos there and you can drop without being worried about breaking it including the screen - all phones should be like that.
The flir camera pics look just like that, haven't really found a use for it yet but I guess I might one day. The endoscope is also a cool idea that hasn't really worked out so well when I've wanted to use it. It works it just an endoscope frequently isn't as useful as you'd hope it could be.
Like every single android phone vendor they really need to get out of the business of providing the OS and set it up as a community project so it works the way you want and has upgrades if you want. Not that Apple, controlling everything, are better at this iphone6 now junk etc.
> all phones should be like that.
No, let's have some choice. You pay for the ruggedness in size, weight and aesthetics. That's not a trade-off everyone wants to make.
I think maybe you're confusing the expression of an ideal with making a particular implentation toward it mandatory?
This phone has been out since Spring 2022. Any reason for the post?
If we want to talk about the utility of a thermal camera, I found it neat. I used a $150 Seek camera to diagnose poor insulation in my bedroom, and one contractor even offered free advice over email since the images were clear enough. I've also used it to find hot ICs on a PCB. The resolution of these lower cost modules isn't great, which you can see by all the postprocessing they advertise. But it's enough to see which wall is leaky, or which IC needs a heatsink.
> Spring 2022
That was last week.
(Seasons are a lousy way of describing times for anything other than local, geographically-anchored content. They’re only meaningful in a comparatively narrow band, falling apart if you head much towards the poles or equator—the four seasons model is useless in tropical areas especially—and inverting if you head to the other side of the equator.)
Indeed.
Our friends in the USA often assume the people they are talking to are only in the USA!
Nonsense, plenty of places in the US completely lack spring and fall as reality, including where I grew up.
What you should have said is that many in the USA often assume the people they are talking to experienced a life identical to theirs
Doesn't everyone live in the USA?
> Seasons are a lousy way of describing times
Given the context, 'spring' is just another way of saying second quarter. It has nothing to do with seasons beyond incidental alignment between calendar quarters and observed seasons in certain geographic areas where the use originated. Indeed, even second quarter breaks down where the Gregorian calendar isn't used, but you have to make assumptions at some point in order to communicate. Context fills in the gaps.
No, it really isn't, and it's mildly obnoxious to people living in the southern hemisphere (or the tropics, for that matter) when people assume spring = Q2. Mildly because we're used to it, but it's not hard to avoid.
And for better or worse, the Gregorian calendar is the universal civil system now, even in the countries like Saudi Arabia that notionally use other calendars. Even Korean Juche years, Japanese imperial eras etc are aligned to Gregorian years.
All the people who live in the southern hemisphere live in the tropics or subtropics.
Spring has no more meaning in Melbourne than it does in Mexico City.
Having lived in Melbourne, those are both pretty bizarre assertions, although it's a running gag for Melbourne that you can easily experience all four seasons in a day. In Australia, only coastal NT/FNQ qualify as tropical, with a subtropical slice from Brisbane down to Sydney:
https://plantmaps.com/koppen-climate-classification-map-aust...
A funny thing I've realised is that it's a running gag in many places, and each one thinks it's unique to them :)
I can't comment on the meaning of spring in Mexico City, but I assure you that it means plenty in Melbourne and its surrounds, colloquially and in actual weather. Even if we didn't get a lot of it this particularly wet year.
This is only correct if you round to the nearest billion people.
Around 250 million people live south of the Tropic of Capricorn: https://www.quora.com/What-proportion-of-the-worlds-populati...
That would be roughly the 5th most populous country in the world.
If we are making generalisations that big we might as well say that no one lives in the United States (population 330M, but rounded to the nearest billion it is zero right?)
Usage dictates that spring = Q2 when used in a business context centred around a US-based business. It has nothing to do with the seasons. It is quite common for words to have multiple meanings, using context to establish the exact definition in play.
The only thing that is actually obnoxious is silly pedantry.
I have literally never heard this, and I’m more aware of the vagaries of USA and European business and general practices than most others in Australia.
If someone on the internet says “Spring 2022”, I immediately assume it’s speaking of northern hemisphere temperate regions’ spring (because such dating is uncommon in the southern hemisphere to begin with and never used in public/worldwide internet situations because we’re more aware of these things), and after thinking carefully for a bit to straighten out in my mind when that actually is, I assume March–May 2022 or possibly a week earlier (equinoxes and such), because that’s what would be meant in Australia, if we ever expressed things like that (apart from the whole off-by-six months thing!). I would not expect June to be reckoned a part of it any more than I would expect March to be a part of Q2.
(Incidentally, a year or two back I heard suggestions that “Q2” may customarily be anchored to financial rather than calendar years in some places. Not sure if this is true.)
If by “spring” you meant to convey “the second quarter of the Gregorian calendar”, you failed to communicate accurately.
> If by “spring” you meant to convey “the second quarter of the Gregorian calendar”, you failed to communicate accurately.
How could I be more clear?
"Given the context, 'spring' is just another way of saying second quarter. ... Indeed, even second quarter breaks down where the Gregorian calendar isn't used, but ..."
I'm really not sure what is missing. Definitely interested in your advice.
Or maybe you're referring to the person who originally used Spring 2022? If that's the case then that wasn't communicated very well. "You" referring to an unrelated third-party is a new one for me.
> Incidentally, a year or two back I heard suggestions that “Q2” may customarily be anchored to financial rather than calendar years in some places. Not sure if this is true.
Definitely true in the right context, but "spring" is used more for general audiences when trying to not sound business-y; particularly when the audience is children. I doubt you will find this usage in a financial context, but definitely with respect to product launches. Something like "Coming Spring 2022" is quite common.
As this pertains to children, it is also not uncommon to see school periods referred to by these same names. e.g. "fall semester", while "summer" is the name of the prolonged vacation period. Because of that, these words are relatable (to those in the geographic region of origin), and is likely why we started seeing them turn up in business contexts, especially in advertising.
Not so. I would have guessed it was either Feb,Mar,Apr (astronomical) or Mar, Apr, May being the gardeners calendar. But Q2 is Q2. It's not just having to flip the season for the hemisphere.
Quite so, even if a regional dialect. Certainly where Caterpillar operates out of it is common. If we were instead talking about an Australian company that produces barbies then we'd know we're talking about barbecues and not dolls, even where regional dialect only knows Barbie as a doll. Words don't exist in a vacuum. Context is significant.
Linus used it in his last video.
Linus Torvalds? He has videos?
Yes. He's switched from LKML to TikTok
Linus Tech Tips
The other Linus
van Pelt?
> This phone has been out since Spring 2022. Any reason for the post?
also, they offered phones with flir cameras before, so nothing new on this front either.
I didn't know about it before, and now I do. Certainly more valuable than the much older hustle culture startup ceo stuff that's often posted.
It's actually even older--August 2020 according to GSM arena (https://www.gsmarena.com/cat_s62_pro-10358.php) Got mine not long after. Kind of surprised to see it make the HN front page in AD 2022.
I purchased a phone with built in FLIR for a friend in Australia. It was cheaper for me to buy it in the US, ship it, and pay a bunch for insurance than for her to buy it locally.
You can see the phone at 4min in this video https://youtu.be/BDUOtlVc4UM
I'm one of today's lucky 10,000 to find out about IR cameras for smartphones.
you mean 2020, right?
> Announced 2020, June 28
> Status Available. Released 2020, August 17
No mention about thermal camera resolution, even in the "Full Tech Specs". Although it does mention it's using FLIR Lepton 3.5 sensor. Seems to be 9 fps at 160x120. [0]
[0]: https://www.digikey.com/en/product-highlight/f/flir/lepton-3...
9 fps is because if the framerate is any higher it would be subject to ITAR export controls, that's going to be a limit you find on any similar cameras
Buy several and place them behind a cold rotating disc, with a hole in it, so each is exposed for 1/<desired fps> seconds?
Although I see I can save quite a bit of effort by buying a 25Hz HIKMICRO thermal camera on US Amazon.
Only in the US. Doesn't apply to these guys for example www.infiray.com
This is rather disappointing especially there are now 25fps Hikmicro cameras at similar prices.
Does ITAR present an impediment even if it’s manufactured and sold in the US?
You can't take it out of country without an export license- Someone else will have to comment on the process of doing that so they can take their camera on vacation or something
I've had to navigate that and make use of listed exemptions to that, for sending thermal cameras i bought from israel- BACK to israel for repair- because of ITAR.
Other than that, you can do what you want in-country with a high quality thermal-and the US can import others who make stuff that high quality, without issues
I brought a 640 x 480 ThermApp Pro with me on vacation to Buenos Aires recently. This might come as a surprise to you, but no one asked me about my camera's frame rate :P
Hey, wait... are you the person on the EEV Blog Forum who wrote about your saga of trying to figure out how to legally ship your camera to Israel for repair? That was also a ThermApp, no?
Yes, that was me -i did successfully send it to the manufacturer for repair , also!
Didn't think that was too notable, but i guess i'm the only person ever who did the process so it stands out when someone talks about it, huh? lol
I thought it was interesting, but I took particular note of your experience because I own a Therm App Pro. It’s an amazing device. I only wish there was an easy way of powering it directly.
Related, do you know of a source for other lenses? I have the standard (19mm?) and 35mm lenses, but I’d love to have some larger lenses that are compatible with the imager.
Seems highly unlikely anyone would stop to check the camera when coming back into the US with a personal phone. They would need to be checking millions of phones for a tiny number of hits.
If you get caught you could lose your professional license. I would assume stiff fines and would not be surprised if some cases might be punishable by incarceration.
That highlights the issue with the American approach to enforcement: staggeringly low levels of being detected but if you are, then it's eyewateringly harsh penalties to compensate.
Tends not to work because most people quite rightly realise there's a near zero chance of getting caught. More effective approaches reinforce that you will often get caught by being more proactive and the punishment can then be more proportionate.
It only is an impediment if it is made in the US. There are high frame rate sensors sold openly abroad.
Not made, but exported from the US. Nevertheless US manufacturer(s) are not willing to sell restricted versions of these miniature sensors.
25 fps is available on Amazon, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33890299
IR cameras tend to be very low-res (or very expensive). Looks like they have some kind of computational photography pipeline processing, to enhance the IR image.
You can get FLIR modules for most smartphones (Android and iOS). Not sure I'd buy a phone, just for the camera.
I wonder if it's possible to take multiple low-res cameras and combine their output in an array...mainly because I have a source for affordable but very low-res (32x24) thermal cameras.
You could make a sensor array by placing the raw sensors close together, all on the same image plan of a single lens. This results in gaps between that would have to be dealt with.
Or, you could make a camera array, with multiple lenses, like: https://graphics.stanford.edu/projects/array
For a real-world application: the ARGUS video capture system used on MQ-9 Reaper drones is 386 5-megapixel, 2010's-era smartphone grade camera sensors and four lenses (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gorgon_Stare)
These niche phones never fail to run old versions of Android. This phone runs Android 11, which was released October 4, 2021. Android 13 was released 15 August 2022.
I owned the first CAT phone with a FLiR thermal imaging sensor and this was by far my biggest gripe. The hardware felt like it was built to last a decade or longer, but the software was chock full of vulnerabilities from day 1, and I think they only provided a few months of proper software updates. I have since (reluctantly) moved to iPhone where I expect that (with my usage) the software should outlast the hardware.
Probably easier to just wrap an iphone in one of those massive cases.
I was expecting you to say it was something from 2010. By comparison, 2021 doesn't seem half bad.
You're getting Android 12 release date confused with 11. 11 was released in Sept 2020, your point still stands however.
I mean, that was only four months ago? And someone in the thread said it launched in September, you're unlikely to get latest Android in the box a month later, unless the model is planned as part of the OS launch.
If all the niche phones don't have updates, that's probably a failing of the OS rather than the niche phones.
Somehow, Microsoft manages to get Windows updates out to everywhere and computers in stores end up having the latest OS on there. Google makes Chrome OS devices update. I think there's two or three projects that were supposed to make Android updates actually happen, but where's the pudding?
I did a project a while back with devices like these. Super rugged shell, giant battery and, in this case, a powerful IR barcode scanner. We built custom apps for warehouse workers and shut access to anything remotely fun. No mobile data or calling allowed, no internet except one hardwired wifi network that talks to shipping systems. Having an old OS is fine because they don't need to be compatible with much and security isn't a big deal because they're so locked down.
I had an S60 some 4 years ago, also equipped with a FLIR camera and although I tried to love the phone, I simply couldn't.
For starters it had a mediocre Snapdragon SoC - better than the average cheapophone, but lacking in a product that was in the premium tier regarding price. The FLIR camera was neat, but inferior to the add-on camera I was using at the time, yet still decent. The cherry on top came when the "ruggedised" phone couldn't cope with normal wear and tear and the plastic started to separate from the case, in a manner similar to the grips in an Xbox Controller Elite game pad that I also owned during that time.
At that point I just desisted from having the CAT phone as my mainly driver and mostly relegated it to the role of auxiliary tool just to have it die suddenly on me. I tried to follow CAT's convoluted RMA process (or perhaps their Bullitt licensee who actually make their phones, I can't remember), chock-full of awful chats and sending non-stop repeated information prompts in order to process a return until I realised I bought it from Amazon and just obtained a refund.
As I said, I really tried to like the product but my experience was so horrible that I gave up on "working phones" altogether.
$650 160x120 9Hz thermal imager
why bother when Chinese are manufacturing ~$200 _25hz_ 256×192 standard USB3 microbolometers? Look up INFIRAY P2 Pro/T2S+, SNDWAY SW-8256 etc
mikeselectricstuff: Infiray P2 Pro smartphone thermal camera review & teardown https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMQeXq1ujn0
STS Telecom: Infiray T2S+ Thermal Camera Review https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt1JBA4W6n8
The 25hz part is important because microbolometers are under ITAR restrictions meaning no US/allied manufacturer offers anything over 9Hz to ordinary consumers.
Does importing an ITAR restricted device cause legal issues?
What does the frequency you mention affect?
Refresh rate. The idea was its harder to aim at 9Hz.
UNI-T UTi260M for Android: USB-C thermal camera with 25hz 256x192 sensor for $400, https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-Resolution-Handheld-Durability-...
So annoyed at the market right now. Here is the same "UNI-T" camera from AliExpress under the name "InfiRay P2":
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004950256049.html
So which effing company makes this, and why are we allowing this stupid white labeling to occur.
Funny aside. Maybe Elon should buy Amazon and kick off all drop shippers, white label resellers, chinese sellers and all duplicate items by enforcing unique codes for every unique product. Make Amazon Great Again.
Looks like Infiray makes thermal sensors and consumer products, perhaps they have a similar business model as FLIR, https://www.infiray.com/products/tiny1-b-micro-lwir-thermal-... & https://www.infiray.com/products/thermal-camera-for-smartpho...
you can tell by the shape alone that it's not the exact same product. although obviously a lot of these cameras are based on the same sensor, though obviously that is really most of the product for these little phone adapters
$334 + tax, not bad at all
repackaged $200 INFIRAY P2 Pro/T2S+, SNDWAY SW-8256
I have looked at these a lot and wondered when they'll push the bounds of their thermals- I have owned some Therm-App cameras(384X288)(640X480), 30 hzsadly no longer sold as of recently - and it's been incredible having mid and HIGH grade thermal phone-based imaging- but a rugged phone is sturdier and more durable, which goes a long way.
I want to see 320X240(or the european equiv, 384X288), 640X480, and higher resolution thermals in them! Otherwise we're still hanging out around FLIR One Territory, and the years are going by fast and they aren't pushing the boundary really! Those Leptons are cheap, but haven't changed much! (And yes, FLIR MSX is a thing- but , owning thermal cameras with multiples the resolution- i'd take that over MSX if i had to choose, every time)
I see one competitor, the AGM ones like the AGM Glory Ones, (hard to see differences with their top models) , and a few other companies- have Night vision cameras with near-infrared illumination lights, for the user, as well- not just the thermal imaging- It's the dream to see as many different sensors and options in a phone as one can fit.
Trust me, they come into use- I've saved multiple pets in the dark in my neighborhood, spotted equipment that was about to ignite, and done so much more with my own thermal cameras- having MORE capabilities- actually goes farther than you can imagine, when you have them...
I really need to get a thermal camera. So many uses. Finding insulation issues, studs in walls, the list is endless. Remember when people were hacking the Flir models to have the specs of the higher end ones?
https://hackaday.com/2013/11/04/manufacturer-crippled-flir-e...
You can find hacked ones on ebay too.
Every time I crack my screen I swear that next time I'll get one of those "rugged" phones. My last phone purchase (Asus Zenfone 8); lasted exactly 2 weeks before I cracked the screen on my bathroom floor. I was worried about having "only" 128Gb of storage; guess I should have been more concerned about that screen. Nice device though...
Rugged cases exist?
Yes, but they make the phone look and feel just as bad as those CAT phones :-)
This time I actually kept the plastic cover on my phone - at least the back and sides are covered, and it sticks out about 1mm above the screen, so it has some protection from cracking the screen; but I still managed to crack it on my first attempt...
The Ulefone 18t just lanched with the same flir sensor, but android 12, 12gb ram, 256gb flash. 9000mha battery and endoscope accessory attachment, same durability specs, marginaly cheaper.
You can also consider buying a FLIR ONE accessory for your Android or iOS device
i would no recommend them. They are ok but battery is empty pretty fast and the software is pure ... (why does it need GPS and Bluetooth on?).
The nice thing is that you can run them from desktop with tool https://source.dpin.de/nica/flir-gtk
How much do these go for?
The prices are on that page, from CAD$305 to CAD$689 depending on the model you want/need.
The first time I heard that acronym, I thought it was the biggest stretch to make in to a word. Forward Looking?? Yeah Im going to forward looking walk to your house.
The term originated in avionics, I believe with the F-16. Before that, IR imaging was top-down, something mounted under spy and reconnaissance planes.
I don't think Caterpillar have any involvement in the design or manufacturing of these phones. They just license their brand to Bullitt Group.
I have this phone and its quite slow.
Specialized devices based on general purpose devices like these are almost always a poor value proposition.
You're getting a crummy phone nowhere near as good as flagships from Apple, Google, and Samsung, just because you can get a FLIR camera integrated.
Why not just buy one of these? https://industrial-reviews.com/smartphone-thermal-camera/
I want to warn people that Cat phones are not “good phones”
They are cheapo Chinese Android phones, with a gimmick. The gimmick can work for some people, sure. Didn’t work for me.
Depends what you want out of them I guess. I buy these because I want a phone that doesn't break easily. And CAT phones don't. It's slow, the camera is crap, the speaker is worse; but what sucks more is replacing the screen every couple of months because it breaks from a stiff breeze.
I will drop my phone. It'll fall out of my pocket. I will sit on it. Sometimes it will land on a hard surface. It'll get wet. It'll get muddy. It'll get unceremoniously tossed in my gym bag. All these things happen. With most phones, this means I have to replace the screen if not the phone. With a CAT, there's no noticeable effect at all.
I also really like how heavy and sturdy they are. Makes them easier to find. Battery life is also amazing. Mine is down to needing charging every two days now after a couple of years. My girlfriend's similar-aged flagship Samsung needs a filler-upper in the afternoon to make a full day.
Anyway CAT matches what I want in a phone. This isn't for everyone, but let's not pretend nobody wants a phone that is sturdy and basic. Because I really do.
I drop my phone a lot, but only the 9H glass screen protector has ever cracked, not the smartphone glass itself. I highly recommend just buying a 3 pack of screen protectors for $9 once a year.
Since Apple started making phones out of freekin glass, I have only bought rugged phones. One problem I had with my Cat was that the compass did not work properly (inaccurate and erratic). This made using Google maps almost impossible. I had the same problem with my rugged Doogeee. My rugged Nokia is a lot better, but is woefully under powered.
In my efforts to find the perfect rugged phone, I honestly feeling like I am chasing butterflies.
Just get a good protective case for the phone of your choice.
Nope. Doesn't work. Tried it. The kind of case my life style would require makes the phone almost unusable.
Saw it on LinusTechTips and had to pause the video for a moment, thats a very very useful feature, not much else to add. The phone is certainly being targeted towards professionals which at least from me takes the shine away to a degree, as the features I would love to go along with it such as AI assisted night vision or the 3.5mm audio jack won't be in it
It is certainly on my radar wherever my current phone finally kicks the bucket so to speak
I suspect these:
> Drop tested multiple times onto concrete & solid steel from up to 1.8m (6ft) to prove their rugged credentials.
> Designed to exceed MIL-SPEC 810H protection against dust, as well as shock, water, vibration and extreme temperatures.
> IP68 & IP69 rating system proves your phone can handle not just a brief dunk in water but also complete submersion.
> Wash and sanitise with soaps, hand sanitisers, anti-bacterial sprays, alcohol wipes and even bleach.
are features attractive to many who work outdoors in construction, engineering, surveying, hands on dirty roles.
In case others are interested, here's the video:
Remember when there was a period of time when camera manufacturers dabbled with adding FLIR to their consumer cameras? Sony did that and some others tried to follow, but it all was quickly wrapped up due to a massive amount of abuse. The cameras were mainly used to film women rather than to identify thermal leaks in insulation.
Probably the reason for the subpar FLIR resolution on this phone as well.
> Probably the reason for the subpar FLIR resolution on this phone as well.
Nope. You are confusing proper Far-Infrared thermal cameras (which can "see" radiated heat in the e.g. -10..60c range, and tell you that the top left corner of that window is poorly insulated), and regular CMOS cameras lacking an IR filter, which just see up to a few hundred nanometers beyond far-red (up to 1000 I'd guess?), and some clothes would be transparent at those wavelengths if illuminated by the right source (the Sun being one). You can easily buy filter-less IR cameras for scientific or astronomical purposes, or if you want to perv I guess, they're readily available. Plop ~20 bucks on a Pi NOIR camera for example, for the Raspberry Pi.
(Actually every CMOS sensor sees in that band - it's reasonably easy to modify many cameras and remove the IR filter if that's what you want)
An actual thermal camera is way more expensive and has a far lower resolution unless you want to spend more than on a Tesla. Not to mention, it's subject to ITAR export controls if you're in the US.
I wonder what the performance will be with such a small sensor and aperture. Usually FLIR scopes have massive apertures to collect as much light as possible. Medium wave infrared signals are extremely weak compared to visual light, and so sensors either have to be cryogenically cooled to allow for large gain with little noise or a large aperture to collect enough light. Or better yet, both.
Someone else already pointed out this is LWIR, not Mid wave(I look forward to the day we get cheap MWIR cameras! We'll be able to see heat trails behind jets- and gasses like no tomorrow- you tend to see through 95% of the with LWIR)
But large apertures? Are you thinking of the longer wavelength? For near infrared, this is a thing- and other night optics....and things like NVGs which use Near infrared
But, this isn't ...a thing for MWIR/LWIR, and not necessarily for SWIR either
The reason not ALL thermals have to be cryogenically cooled- is microbolometers - that's the key.
- I own a bunch of uncooled LWIR cameras, that i use- and NVGs as well
This is LWIR and it’s probably pretty low f-number (guessing f/1) but super short FL so doesn’t need all that large of an aperture.
Probably works the same as every other device that uses the FLIR lepton 3.5.
We just finished a project where we spec'd catphones for a remote rugged data collection system.
The Cat42 is based on a mediatek chipset and gave us "meh" performance. BT/BLE was underwhelming compared to other phones. I'd recommend something like an Cat53 or 62 with Qualcomm guts instead.
Sony had a camera with thermal, stopped selling it because it saw through people's clothes.
https://fossbytes.com/sony-accidentally-launched-camcorders-...
Anyone know the resolution of the FLIR camera? Specs don't seem to list the thermal camera resolution, only up-res one. The last revision was kind of weak, low-res with a max of only 120°C or so, if memory serves right. The improvement to : -20°C to 400°C is a happy step forward.
Says "FLIR Lepton 3.5 professional-grade sensor" which lists at 160x120 from
https://www.flir.com/news-center/camera-cores--components/fl...
I've played around with both generations of the Lepton sensor and the 3.5 is really nice: factory calibrated so you can directly measure temp without elaborate external calibration and a built-in shutter.
Thermal sensors of this type are huge and expensive. At work I also have a Flir with 1024x768 sensor, super expensive with a massive germanium (or something) lens. One of the problems for handheld applications is that you always need two separate optical paths since the lensing is totally incompatible. So you end up having to register the two images to each other, which can fail when it's darkish or the image doesn't have a lot of edges.
They used a very crappy wordplay to hide the pixels for unknown reasons.
Lepton 2.5 is 80x60, Lepton 3.5 is 160x120.
https://www.flir.com/products/lepton/
Scroll down for full specifications.
Key property is also thermal sensitivity, which for Lepton 3.5 is <50mK. Better sensitivity and you will be able to see finer gradients or need less temperature gradient to observe.
From the tech specs section https://www.catphones.com/en-us/cat-s62-pro-smartphone/cat-s...
Lepton 3.5 professional grade camera 1440 x 1080 HD output with VividIR MSX linear overlay from visual cam Measurable range: -20°C to 400°C
This would almost be better off being marketed as a thermal camera with a cellular connection. This would have been handy during my commissioning days, removing the tedious steps of getting the files from the camera to a computer to the cloud or sending someone a live view.
Wow the first of these phones were made in 2013! This is the first I am hearing of this phone. These are obviously selling enough to keep churning out newer versions. The FLIR camera is also something I have never thought about, quite a good option to have some times.
When will we see high resolution (say 1080p) FLIR cameras at a prosumer level price point ~$1,000?
Probably not for a long time. The individual microbolometer pixels are huge and use an expensive process so just the size of the sensor and the effort of getting reasonable yield is enormous.
Oddly enough I just bought a used Blackview BV9800 Pro phone today purely for the FLIR camera in it. At $140 CAD it was much much cheaper than any of the off the shelf new FLIR options.
That was a steal, a little better a value proposition than my $100 AUD / $92 CAD / $67 USD first generation Flir One (lightning port plug-in for iPhone).
Where did you score it for that price, marketplace, eBay?
Though even the $500 AUD odd going rate on eBay is pretty good given the cost of any of the devices with a screen built-in.
Canadian classified site, Kijiji. I missed another a couple months back so set a watch for any more ads to pop up and got lucky today.
Unless you need the thermal functionality a dozen times a day you're better off buying a $200 IR add-on camera you'll be able to use for a decade or more.
I want a second phone with FLIR for fun and profit, but I don't want a heavy duty like existing Ulefone one. Maybe it's better to buy a external USB FLIR.
You can get FLIR One cameras with Lightning and USB-C (for iPhone and Android respectively) for $300. https://www.amazon.com/FLIR-ONE-Thermal-Imaging-Camera/dp/B0...
It isn't as good as the FLIR on the Cat phone, but if you're one of those people going "Man, having a FLIR around the house would be cool" - this is the solution for you. And it will outlive your phone...so long as you don't change "sides" in the OS Wars.
There is also the solution from Klein Tools which may use (not sure) Flir sensors...
Why did FLIR catch on instead of just IR? Is it because it sounds cool to be military-like?
Does anyone expect the IR to look any other direction than forward on a phone?
The marketing distinction between FLIR and IR is that one provide thermal imaging and the other one doesn't. That's besides any scientific/"technically correct" definition.
The maker of that sensor called FLIR.
Why can’t phones easily add capabilities on both sides of the visible range? IR and UV. The visible range isn’t special except to us, right?
If only there was an alternative to Google and Apple app stores, and to being a "green texter". I hate duopolies.
These phones are pretty louse tbh. I bought one 6 months ago and 1 month later I switched to a Pixel 6.
Caterpillar phones have had thermal sensing for years, haven't they? What's different in this model?
Yes, they do have that, but $649? My first Cat phone was $249 and the current one is over $400.
We can see it in action in the last LTT video on youtube. It is pretty wild
My BlackView with FLIR is good for checking electrical circuits and relays.
Two of my mates run these phones, and while the FLIR camera is cool (and extremely handy for fault finding in HV switchboards and so forth), the rest of the phone is quite lacklustre.
Wow, it has 128 GB of ROM! Upgradable to 256 GB! I wonder what's with the operating system that takes up so much space. And no mention of user storage.
Look up the uniherz Tank. Puts it to shame.
What does it do with 128GB ROM?? /s
Seriously though, does ROM no longer stand for read-only memory?
It didn't ever since EPROMs existed.
More seriously, the use of "ROM" to mean "nonvolatile storage in general" probably took off when the Android community began calling their firmware "ROMs".
Have you seen any other vendors use that? I have only seen it being referred to as storage.
Good luck to them. I hope they can sell more than five phones a year