Quest for my perfect watch
lock.cmpxchg8b.comOn a related topic, I find programming or typing while wearing a watch leads relatively quickly to wrist pain due to the pressure constraints it puts on the muscles and tendons.
I have tried several different watches and experienced this problem. I know many tech industry people wear watches while they work, but I have never heard a discussion of this condition. I wonder if I am somehow unusual in this situation. I am otherwise not especially prone to repetitive stress injuries.
It has been bad enough I have thought of converting a wristwatch into a modern pocket watch, though I would lose any feature that depended on skin proximity.
How large of a watch are you using? How tight do you wear it? How much do you weight?
I've worn larger watches in the past. Now I wear a pretty small watch or an apple watch, that is also smallish, and I dont have any issues. I tend to wear my watches quite loose so they rest beyond the rim of the laptop I type on.
Where do you wear a watch? Over your wrist joint or higher up your forearm?
I like to wear my watch a few cm higher up my arm, so that the metal band doesn’t scratch my laptop.
If you want features that need skin contact, you could keep a nice watch as a pocket watch, and then wear a cheap fitness band on your ankle.
> cheap fitness band on your ankle
This is a cool idea. I hadn't really toyed with the idea of my watch living anywhere but my wrist.
Like the GP, I have to remove mine a lot for computer sessions, as a heavy keyboard user.
I'm really fatigued by all the stuff I have to carry each day. I think the watch is often the best bang for the buck. Pretty small, rarely in the way, lots of utility.
I don't care about the health tracking, so the ankle isn't an option, but I'm going to think about other ways I can use my (Galaxy) watch.
What does the watch provide that a smartphone does not? Presuming that you already have a smartphone.> I think the watch is often the best bang for the buck. Pretty small, rarely in the way, lots of utility.Nothing--duplicate functionality on my wrist. That's useful for me a lot: motorcycling, fishing, kayaking when I want my phone in a dry bag, silent notifications.
The ease of accessing a voice assistant is nice--I double click a watch button to set reminders/timers/alarms. It's a shame the VA is bixby, but mostly it gets the job done.
You've answered far more of my questions than you know! I appreciate the answer - and am now contemplating a smart watch. I'd want something tiny, and waterproof, with an analogue face.
Thank you.
Data point: I wear a watch every day and have never experienced this.
May have to do with posture or body alignment, less than the watch.
My data point: much like GP, I experience discomfort if I wear my (smart/big) watch while programming. Also if I wear a small watch too tightly.
I get a sensation in my pinky that's a lot like what you feel with a pinched nerve.
I just take the watch off if I'm going to be using the keyboard for any period of time. Gaming especially bothers it.
Notably, I rest my left wrist on the laptop body underneath the keyboard area. If I kept my wrists perched in the air, I doubt I would have any of this going on at all.
I feel the same. I can type/game for like 10+ hours straight and not feel a thing. If I wear a watch my hand/wrist becomes to feel uncomfortable within fifteen minutes. It may be due to poor hand posture relative to the height of my desk but I'm not sure.
Same, I only pull it off when i feel it scratching a palm rest.
Smaller watches, with nylon, silicone, or leather straps help. Big metal bracelet watches always feel in the way.
FWIW mine has a titanium bracelet.
Seconded
That is why for years used a pocket watch. No pain, just wind it every day, when it breaks send someone to Malaysia to get another "genuine imitation" of whatever big brand. I was thinking about finding a quality make from a genuine brand when the G1 android came out, and it turns out a smart phone in my pocket does everything I need from a watch and so much more.
Wristwatches were invented because constantly pulling it out from a pocket is cumbersome and needs a free hand. And at least I don't carry my phone everywhere. If you are fine with a smartphone then that's great, but for me the only true wristwatch replacement would be normal-looking smartglasses that actually aren't too smart and have a long battery life. Or in other words, there is no replacement.
Wrist watches are very uncomfortable (to me), and so the no an option. If it works for you great.
Not trying to correct, just to be helpful:
I find personally that some watches are extremely uncomfortable, and some I barely feel.
The small, thin watches that don't get hung up on clothing etc work well for me. Timex weekender, and Casio F91W-1. Of course, they have pretty limited utility. Time & alarm.
All the bigger, nicer watches I've tried are uncomfortable, and that's coming from someone who wears a watch basically every day.
Bands can matter a lot, as well. I have a very small "tightness" range where it's tight enough not to slide around, but not so tight that it hurts at all. The bands with a bunch of holes in them sometimes don't have a hole where I need it.
Username, pocket watch, I can tell we're friends we just dont know it yet. What model watch are you currently carrying? I know you said they're imitation, but still curious.
It was a Ferrari logo on it. No other documentation or model number, so I can't answer your question. Those who know what the Ferrari logo is supposed to look like can tell it is wrong at 3 meters.
So, I think this is one of those things where YMMV is very much true. That said, I have a lot of wrist/thumb issues and am heavily invested in ergonomics to mitigate said issues and prevent them from worsening. I also wear a large watch every day while using a computer, and I experienced at times exactly what you're referring to.
Ultimately, it came down to the band. The only bands I found that would not cause issues were bands like the milanese loop for the Apple Watch, the trail band for the Apple Watch Ultra, or similar designs, where these bands have flexibility and are capable of sliding/slipping in a controlled fashion to "self-adjust".
The issue with other watch bands type like a typical plastic sports band or metal link bracelet, are that they have no flexibility. What happens is that when your wrist flexes and the band doesn't give way, is that it creates pressure on the tendons and you can end up getting a form of RSI. Much more flexible bands give way and allow your watch to adjust over time to the position of where your hands need to be for typing. When using a milanese loop style band I even noticed I would need to tighten it again when I'd stand up to walk around as it'd be a bit loose, and it'd hold its position until I sat to type again. That it's significant enough to be noticeable is indicative that it's quite a lot of required flexibility.
Rather than giving up on wearing a watch, I'd recommend you spend some time trying different bands and look for flexible bands.
I made a custom wood and leather wrist rest for exactly this. It’s fairly tall and has a soft curve at the corner opposite the keyboard. The heel of my hand rests on the curve. Watchband touches nothing. I modeled it after the keyb and wrist rest on an X220 and its predecessors. Going on at least 15 pain-free years post blowout.
I want to second the request for a picture. I think this would solve my watch/keyboard problems.
Thank you!
pictures please! :)
I will try to get to it tomorrow.
Literally:
My current keyboard is a Filco Majestouch 2, but I originally made it for a cheaper Magicforce, very similar geometry. It's too tall for the NuPhy Air60. I'd say the thickness works out fine when the top of the wrist rest is about 1/8" above the bottom of the first row of keys.- found a stick of pine that was the right thickness (3/4") - cut off a chunk a bit wider than the alpha keys (~12") - measured the distance from the keys to the edge of the X220 wrist rest (3") - took off 1/8" for border of the keyboard frame, ymmv - approximated the curve with a rasp and sandpaper - after a week or so, Elmer's glued a sheet of soft leather over the whole thingPadding isn't really necessary. Laptops don't have it, and there are plenty of wooden wrist rests out there. It's the geometry that matters. That said, soft leather is nice. Neoprene could work, but it gets gross.
Same here. The watch part of my wrist normally wrests on the bottom edge of my Macbook, so I end up lifting my wrist slightly to avoid the band from scratching, which then leads to pain. I've found some luck from wearing long sleeves that cover my watch so that I don't have to worry about the scratching issue.
I just add an extra link to the watch band and slide it up my arm a little bit when coding.
I don’t get wrist pain, but that’s probably because I find it so uncomfortable I always take my watch off whenever my hands approach a keyboard. I haven’t really experienced carpal tunnel myself yet, but literally every single person I’m physically related to gets it by their 40s so maybe it’s related to that somehow?
> I know many tech industry people wear watches while they work, but I have never heard a discussion of this condition.
I regularly (one day out of every two?) wear a relatively heavy mechanical watch while working. 127 grams I think. I don't have more issues to my left hand than my right hand has ; )
You wear your watch on your right hand?
Are you left handed? I guess that might be significant for RSI type injuries
I wear my watches on either hand, depends on what the mood takes me. I've never understood why I should always wear it on the left hand just because I am right handed - my grandfather would balk at such a thing :D is it just because using the same hand you wear your watch on for everything might make it more likely to bash something with it?
(shrug)
I also wear my watches on my right hand, and I’m ambidextrous. Use keyboard and mouse as right handed people, but write with left.
Both of my hands are as healthy as it gets.
I wear my watch on my right hand, I’m ambidextrous. It’s always the side that’s felt proper, even though I write right-handed.
I am pretty sure this happens to me too.
It’s not that I feel the watch causing pain _directly_, like a lot of replies here seem to assume, it’s that if I wear one regularly for more than a couple of weeks, it aggravates my existing tendency to develop pain in my wrists.
I looked for the lightest watch I could find ( at the time a pebble 2 SE ) , and used a Eulit Palma Pacific watch band on it - basically a light airy woven material compared to the silicon junk smart watches come with.
I have to take it off when typing on a laptop, but I try to avoid that whenever possible.
It's one reason why I wish for a laptop with the touchpad next to the screen and the keyboard next to the edge.
I feel it when I'm at a keyboard with no wrist rest, but having my palms raised a couple of centimetres means my watch strap isn't in contact with the desk at all.
This is one of the big reasons I don't wear a watch or bracelet, although I suspect it may be related to wrist shape since others don't seem to have this issue.
I only type a moderate amount, but I don't find that my watch is putting any pressure on my wrist. If I feel pressure I typically immediately loosen it a notch.
It might depend on bracelet material and fit. For instance BluShark makes a "Pajama strap" which is very extensible.
I think it may hinge on whether you use wrist pads. I use them and definitely can't wear a watch when I work.
Suggestion. You could wear a time piece around your neck like Flavor Flav.
Have you tried using a wrist pad?
I've been dabbling in smartwatches because of the built-in step counters, trying to get healthy, etc. The main thing I found I appreciated is the automatic time sync including DST switchover.
There is a long list of negatives:
- Battery life is miserable compared to a classic watch
- Screen activation is unreliable. Imagine a classic watch not visible when you look at it.
- Bad UX. Somehow the brightness settings I apply randomly get reset/reverted. This is probably hit or miss depending on brand, I expect Apple's devices have this nailed.
- Outdoor performance. This is the worst one. The screen is just not readable under bright sunlight. I find myself making a little tent out of whatever I have on and furiously shaking my wrist to activate the screen just so I can tell the time. This is what's going to make me ultimately switch back to a classic watch unless I can find one with e-ink. I'm not sure how Apple's devices fare here beyond friends saying 'it works fine.'
Have you looked at/tried the Garmin smart watches? I wear an Instinct 2, and from your list I’d say:
- Battery life is around 25 - 30 days (it would be longer if I was outside more and got more benefit from solar charging)
- The screen is always visible
- The UX on the watch is pretty terrible, not going to lie.
- Not a problem at all. When it is very, very, dark I have to press a button to temporarily activate the backlight.
When it is very, very, dark I have to press a button to temporarily activate the backlight.
The Fenix 3 I wore like ten years ago had a setting to turn the backlight on when I turned my wrist. It was not as reliable as the same functionality on Apple Watch, but good enough.
I’m an Apple Watch guy myself, but I’ve got a drawer full of Garmins, and they might make a fine choice for OP.
I don’t think the instinct line does this, but it does highlight something worth mentioning for anyone considering Garmin watches — these aren’t like Apple watches, where there are a few key differences between the various models. The UX and feature set is wildly different, and there isn’t even a real hierarchy where you can say “model a has features 1 and 2; model b has that plus feature 3; etc.”
I second the Garmin Instinct Solar as a really good everyday watch. I got tired of charging my Apple Watch everyday and getting annoying notifications all the time. I just wanted something to keep track of my walks, track my sleep and give me basic watch functions such as alarms, timers and stopwatch. The Instinct is perfect for that.
I also have it set so that the backlight turns automatically on when it's dark and I flip my wrist. I wear it to bed (sleep tracking) and I can always check the time if I wake up in the middle of the night.
You might like Withings Steel HR. It easily lasts a month on a single charge. Conversly, I now have their more premium Scanwatch, and I feel the UX regressed, while the added functions are not for me.
I had a basic Withings, not the Steel, and there was a lot I liked about it, particularly getting many months out of each battery, and the step counter being a dial from 0 to 50 to 100% of whatever target number of steps one set in the companion app.
But, for me, the lack of a second hand and backlighting or glow-in-the-dark hands & numbers, combined with the strong potential that my health data was being snooped on, convinced me to return to a traditional analog face wristwatch.
But I may look into the OP's original Casio - a sturdy watch with a barometer and compass built in, that would be handy.
Compared to ordinary smart watches the Whitings watches feel a lot more "grown up" to me.
(I also liked Kronaby a lot, but those were quite expensive)
It may not be an option for you based on your other tech choices, but I feel like the Apple Watch excels at all of the things you mention here except, obviously, battery life vs. a conventional nonsmart watch.
I supposed UX can be a matter of taste, but I've found it's simple enough to set up an Apple Watch such that I have rapid access to the features and functions I need in a given situation.
In particular, outdoor usage -- even in bright sun -- is pretty great. I've done no small amount of hiking with mine, and use it often when cycling. Readability is fine!
Most Garmin GPS watches (except for newer expensive models) have an LCD screen that's perfectly readable under sunlight, only when it's dark I need to tap the screen to activate the backlight. At least one model has an integrated solar panel which can significantly extend battery life while GPS isn't used.
But personally I have fiddled around with 5 different Garmin watches and think their UX in menus is simply horrible on average, mine is okay for my use-case but I'd advise to never buy them blindly.
What watch are you talking about? Apple watch 7 is perfectly usable for me outdoors. It has 1000 nits screen.
look at the pebble community threads for recommendations as they generally want the same thing. for example heres one where many seem to suggest the 'fossil collider' https://www.reddit.com/r/pebble/comments/v9966o/comment/ibw0...
Heh, I recently got the chance to discover that my trusty W-86 automatically adjusts for DST.
On the topic of battery life, it's still going after 6 months!
Posts like this really make me miss my old Pebble. Maybe its incredibly niche, but they left a gap in the market that no other offering has yet to fill.
I really wish I had tried the Pebbles.
I want buttons. Not capacitive touch.
And I have a hunch the rotating bezel on the Samsung classic 4 (or whatever) is The Correct Answer™.
My Apple Watch 4's battery is now pretty weak. So I'm looking to replace.
I kinda hate my Apple Watch. Now it's just an annoying step counter.
It sucks for controlling audio playback. I'm walking the dog, in the cold, wind, and rain. So then I have to take off my gloves, look at the damn thing, navigate to the playback controls (because reasons), tap the button a few times. Etc. So now I just dig out my iPhone.
The Activity tracker sucks. If I stop to pick up some waste, it's smart enough to pause. But not smart enough to resume when I get walking again. So I have to hit Dismiss multiple times during an activity. Grrr. So I stopped using it.
Siri via the watch is turrible. I've stopped trying.
The one huge feature I want for a future watch (or whatever) is tracking my waking breathing rate. For pain management and other mindfulness stuff. I'm supposed to regulate my breathe. Like remind me to stop holding my breathe during a bad spell.
> Samsung classic 4 (or whatever) is The Correct Answer™.
I think it's the whole Samsung Galaxy Watch line. My Galaxy Watch (original) has one, and they'd be total fools to remove it in a later model.
I think the only time I touch the watch face is to dismiss notifications with a gesture. The dial is super nice, and I actually default to spinning it to wake the face instead of hitting a button.
The dial is my favorite thing about the watch.
You might like Watchy https://github.com/sqfmi/Watchy
Garmin has an active/outdoorsy slant but out of the big smartwatch players they seem to fill that hole best, a good amount of their models emphasize button navigation and the touchscreen is optional.
I was well into smartwatches and was planning to scale up to an Apple watch or Garmin or something higher end.
Then I got a Longines automatic, and I remembered why I loved mechanical watches so much.
So, it's back to basics for me. While the features are nice, It's nice that my watch is "charging" itself as I wear it.
Apple watches are great if you are already in apple ecosystem. But their battery life are disappointing, just like wearOS watches. It seems that Apple / Android watch OSes are just bad for such tiny devices. What Xiaomi (Amazfit), Garmin and others are doing with battery optimization is way better. Zepp OS is providing a great SDK documentation, but I went for a Garmin watch thanks to the wide range of apps and widgets already available.
I have a couple of Mi Bands, and they're nice devices. However, they're not watches. They're body monitors with watch functionality patched in, and that's OK.
While the functionality they add-in is intriguing, their low processing power is taxing the mobile phone a lot. I'm in apple ecosystem, and constant communication and process offloading reduces battery life of the phone considerably. Esp, when on the move.
I want a watch primarily. A time keeping device which I can depend and can use for a long time (i.e. years). So returning to a vanilla, bona-fide watch was refreshing and liberating. Having a self-winding, completely mechanical heart inside is also nice.
I use GadgetBridge with my Mi Band. It supports several other brands, is open source, and doesn't noticeably affect battery on the paired phone.
The only annoyance is that a recent update which added support for a device I don't use has caused GadgetBridge to prompt my for a permission that device support needs every time I open the app, and doesn't care that I have no reason to grant that permission. I should make a bug report…
My main battery issue is that the Mi Band's "up to 14 days" (or whatever) is nowhere near enough. I get about 7 days, and I'd prefer "at least 30 days", or...dare I say it?...a few years . (-:
That sounds odd, what kind of processing would the band need?
If the Zepplife application is running (even in the background), the band constantly feeds it data about your steps, pulse and whatnot it gets from you, to keep its send queue empty. This wakes the processor a lot, and consumes a lot of battery.
If you're exercising, band establishes and keeps a constant connection about your movement data and pulse. It also gets some information from app (is GPS healthy, etc.).
Both modes keep the phone out of its deep sleep, and halves your daily battery stamina if you have a moderately active day.
Because of that, I actively kill the Zepplife application most of the time if I'm wearing the band that day, unless I'm exercising.
I'm in the same boat (with a Nomos). It's just nice to have a (gorgeous) watch that simply is a watch and doesn't demand much from you. On the downside, a full revision every few years is at least a few hundred bucks.
They're pretty nice watches, congrats. The nice thing is, mine is powered by an ETA based caliber, and the retailer told me that I don't need to bring it in unless it's constantly behind or something is wrong with it.
I’ve heard that the service interval for a new watch is typically a decade. At that point the mainspring likely needs to be replaced and the watch needs to be lubricated.
I have seen some very old automatic watches of people around me. Namely from Movado, Rado and Rolex. All of them are way older than a decade, and their backs have not opened yet, and they keep time very well within their specs.
I think it was pretty common in old days to damage the balance wheel assemblies and the mainsprings since the shock absorbers were not that well, or non-existent. However, modern/upscale watches have much more robust assemblies and alloys.
I may send my watch in for regulation and check in a decade, but I don't expect that its mainspring will be replaced at that interval. Even my entry level Seiko 5 is pretty much spot on after 5-6 years.
On the other hand, my first mechanical, a Swatch Diaphane automatic has died because it had no shock absorber and fell to a soft carpet from my hand, approximately from 1M above ground. It can no longer keep accurate time if it's not flat on a table.
My understanding from listening to watch people is that old lubricants tended to degrade over years which meant that watches back then needed to be serviced every 5-10 years regardless of use. Modern chemistry means they're much more stable, so a watch can last indefinitely on the shelf, but will still have tiny amounts of wear while running (thus hard-on-hard bearing surfaces - jewels - are used to extend the life). I find it a bit ironic that these advances were made after mechanical watches have become close to deprecated for actual timekeeping duty.
the effects of errosion can be mitigated by using a lower beat too - this is why some of the big names in independant watchmaking have been pushing for lower frequency watches - to extend the service interval, I believe George Daniels wrote about it before his death.
Longines’ calibers use reduced beat (3.5Hz) both to increase reserve to 72 hours and make service intervals longer as far as I know.
It's pretty much physically impossible for a Rolex to still be within spec (+-2 sec / day) after a decade of use.
If the only reason you take your watch in for service is because the time is drifting a lot each day, you've waited too long. At that point the lubricants have almost certainly broken down and the metal contact points are grinding away. The metal that's worn off ends up on other parts of the movement as dust and can be abrasive.
Your Seiko 5 can be cleaned and serviced (you can regulate it yourself with a Timegrapher you get on ebay for $100), but I'd probably just replace the movement with a new one. They are essentially disposable.
> It's pretty much physically impossible for a Rolex to still be within spec (+-2 sec / day) after a decade of use.
Neither confirm, nor deny. It's not my watch, I'm just the messenger of the owner. He said it's not opened. I can't say anything else.
> If the only reason you take your watch in for service is because the time is drifting a lot each day, you've waited too long.
For me a drift for service is a minute/day at most. Also, these are the words of the retailer I bought the watch from. They carry and service from Tissot to Omega, and everything in between for the last 20+ years, so I'm assuming they at least they know what they're talking about (Longines official recommendation is 6-8 years on their website, BTW).
> Your Seiko 5 can be cleaned and serviced (you can regulate it yourself with a Timegrapher you get on ebay for $100), but I'd probably just replace the movement with a new one. They are essentially disposable.
I'd rather not replace a japan made movement which constantly hits +/- 4 seconds every day, esp. if it's designed to be very low maintenance and repair. Of course I can upgrade it in myriad of ways, but I bought it for what it is, and I'd rather keep it stock. A 7S36C can be a very simple movement, but it's not exactly disposable.
I'm aware of the depth of the rabbit hole, and I'm making a conscious choice of staying at the surface, because I rather have less number of dependable items rather than a fleet which needs constant love. I've found the depths of proverbial rabbit holes in other ways, so I'm pretty experienced about the consequences.
> and I remembered why I loved mechanical watches so much.
Why? :)
A run off the mill mechanical watch is an item built to endure and last. The case is generally stainless steel, capped by one or two pieces of scratch resistant glass (mineral if entry level, sapphire if mid/upper level).
This means you have an hermetically sealed unit which rewinds itself as you live your life, and works off its reserve when you put it aside. This unit runs off mechanical energy, with no electricity whatsoever, and keeps time pretty spot on for what it is.
Moreover this steel+sapphire construction is made to held up against daily elements and some (a 30 bar designation is no slouch), over the decades you presumably own the piece.
As a result, you carry something you can depend (and love to look at) for a very long time, and live your life together, in a sense. Long living items collect memories with you, and act as a trigger for these memories too.
This is very different from an item which you consume and (have to) throw away three years later. This is why some people are this much into watches, fountain pens, and other low tech items which have long lifespans, presumably generations.
> keeps time pretty spot on for what it is.
This is a damning with faint praise.
Yes, mechanical watches are amazing if you think of them as tiny devices packed with gears and rotors and jewels and springs. This is what drew me to them in the first place.
But in an absolute sense, they are simply poor timekeeping devices. The "elite chronometer" certification on high-end watches means that a mechanical watch is required to be +/- 2 seconds/day. A normal quartz watch is +/- 20 seconds/month, which is significantly better. There are high-accuracy quartz watches which are +/- 5 seconds/year.
There is nothing preventing you from owning a quartz watch for decades just like a mechanical watch. It's just going to cost you - a small fraction compared to mechanicals. Replacing a battery every few years will cost you less than a full mechanical rebuild every decade.
> daily elements and some (a 30 bar designation is no slouch)
A silly flex. More WR comes with more weight/size. Divers mostly use diving computers now.
> This is a damning with faint praise.
Well, considering a lowly Seiko 5 can always point to the correct minute within some (+/- 15) seconds without adjusting it ever is a remarkable achievement if you ask me. A top of the line server has more drift than that gearbox.
> But in an absolute sense, they are simply poor timekeeping devices.
If you want sub second accuracy to time F1 races, yes. For catching your metro, no.
> A normal quartz watch is +/- 20 seconds/month, which is significantly better. There are high-accuracy quartz watches which are +/- 5 seconds/year.
Yet, their batteries tend to go flat on the most inconvenient times, and without warning if you're not using a higher end movement.
> Replacing a battery every few years will cost you less than a full mechanical rebuild every decade.
Every 2-3 years to be precise, unless you use an entry level Casio digital wristwatch, which will last a decade.
> A silly flex. More WR comes with more weight/size. Divers mostly use diving computers now.
It's not a flex. A 30 bar watch will just last. It's not about just WR.
You don't need to like automatics, that's OK. If I want utmost precision, I'd wear a GPS enabled Casio. However, for some of us out there, using these things are about appreciating the craft and engineering going into these things. Like vinyl, fountain pens and mechanical keyboards.
No need to be frantic about some seconds unless you're synchronizing server farms for TLS, TOTP or other stuff. Even life is not that rigid about timing. That rigidity is something we enforce on our lives.
Use what you enjoy, get your favorite hot drink and relax. :)
I can't second this enough. I wore an Apple watch for years, then put it down in favor of a Seiko 5 automatic (mechanical watch). It's kept time like a champ and doesn't vibrate every five minutes begging for my attention. I previously had a quartz movement Timex, but there's just something about the mechanical watches that I really grew to appreciate.
I switched from an automatic to a kinetic and now I don't have to set the time every week or two
You do have two wrists…
And I don't like or want to move around like a Swatch shop employee. :)
Is that reference to Nicholas G. Hayek?
Nope, not at all. I've seen some people wearing a watch on one wrist and a band on other, and I didn't like how it looks. I also didn't like the feel when I tried the same thing, either.
Swatch shop employees in my country wears a watch on each wrist, again which I don't like how it looks.
I have a couple of Oceanus[0] (Casio’s boutique brand) watches that I wore, all the time, for years (I brought them in Japan). They replaced a Junghans Mega MF[1],
They are all collecting dust. I’ve been wearing Apple Watches for years.
The Apple Watch costs half as much as my other watches, and is less attractive, but I have really come to rely on its utility.
I have a friend that just got the Ultra. It’s a cool watch, but way too bulky and awkward-looking, for me. Reminds me of a Suunto watch, a friend of mine once owned.
First and foremost, I need to know exactly what time it is. The weather functionality is also important to me.
For many folks, a watch is jewelry. I had a friend that used to wear a broken Brietling.
[0] https://www.casio.com/us/watches/oceanus/
[1] https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/junghans-mega-apollo-...
> For many folks, a watch is jewelry.
It’s funny you say this. I view this of watches, but I wear a Whoop band which gives me utility.
My brother-in-law wears a watch, but has multiple times wondered why I wear a bracelet. His claim is “I don’t need a bracelet to tell me I slept horribly,” which is, in my opinion, completely missing the mark.
But it made me think about perception - I view watches as effectively jewelry because I have a smartphone. The benefits I could get out of a smart watch don’t match what I get from my Whoop (I’m very anti-notification so the Apple Watch doesn’t appeal to me), so I just view them all as vanity items (I realize they aren’t, but they would be for me).
Sorry, just an aside - perception is strange.
The phone thing is a valid argument, but one that doesn't work for me.
I don't want to have to dig my phone out of my pocket, every time I want to know what time it is.
I also like to keep an eye on the outside temperature, so that's useful.
I don't like frivolous notifications, but I rely on important ones, and the Watch is pretty much perfect, for that.
> I don't want to have to dig my phone out of my pocket, every time I want to know what time it is.
Funny, I actually decided the opposite - I think making it too easy for me to check the time promotes anxious thinking, especially when as for most cases, the exact time doesn't really matter that much. I think making it slightly harder to check the time is good thing for me.
Obviously this doesn't apply to everyone, and might be a bad idea if you regularly do things that really do need an up to the minute time accuracy.
Well, the reason that I had the Apollo watch, and the two Oceanus ones, was because they synced to all the worldwide time servers.
I'm pretty anal about time. People know they can rely on me. It's a thing.
l've been wearing my dead brother’s Citizen Eco-Drive Calibre 5700 (stainless) for the past decade for similar reasons to those in the article. It’s rugged, solar powered, and requires no thought.
It also has a small scorch mark from an arc welding incident he had that I treasure.
I have an E650 or something like that--an eco-drive. I traded an xbox 360 for it many years ago, when an xbox 360 was worth about 300 or 400 bucks. I was having trouble selling the xbox before I went overseas, but bringing a watch along worked just fine.
It's a great watch. I would wear it more, but it's a little gaudy for me, and heavy. Still, I've really mistreated it a lot, and it just keeps on going.
Similar make by the same brand here. I have been wearing it for five years without issue.
It's also a fairly inexpensive watch, so it's no big deal should I lose it. (I have no sentimental attachment to mine.)
A downside I see to smartwatches is they feel outdated after a few years. With this, you make the decision to stick to the basics, but hopefully you're not generating any more waste for the next 10-15 years.
(Edit: spelling)
I wouldn't change my Casio Protrek PRG-80T for nothing, More than 16 years and no battery change, Titanium strap and case, solar charging and tough as none of the others, A classic ABC watch (Altimeter-Barometer-Compass) with temperature sensor.
To be honest, I also have a small smart band (latest Xiaomi Mi Band) to complement for all the missing smart functionality. People keep asking me why I wear two watches :-)
How useful is the temperature sensor? On my Garmin 935 not that much, it's too affected by body heat. Unless I'm swimming, this it the only case when it tracks ambient (i.e. water) temperature correctly, and rather quickly.
Exactly, only really useful for swimming. On many occasions I had to take it off my wrist in order to measure correctly (i.e. put it in a river).
Same here for my Casio Protrek PRW-7000, whose clean, rugged and stylish look I think is hard to improve on:
https://www.amazon.com/CASIO-PROTREK-PRW-7000FC-1JF-MENS-JAP...
Since those sensors are say 20 years old design and 16+ years components, its safe to say that their precision leaves a lot to desire. No gps for example to help triangulation or indicate position.
It all may be great for you but depending on your activities one may appreciate higher precision / more capable instruments.
That being said, I used to wear some old Suunto that are probably even worse and I had to switch battery every few years. I didnt mind being 100-150m off in altitude for example in some himalayan treks or skitours in alps since terrain navigation was easy. Stopped with them altogether, for weekends phone is vastly superior and battery is no problem. And since kids I dont do much more situations that actually use such watches.
There are two design approaches to wristwatches that I haven't seen but which I think have distinct benefits: wide (landscape) bodies/faces, and bands with batteries in the links.
In Sci-Fi, it's normal to see landscape displays on forearms. Often it's part of a suit, so it is kind of an obvious solution. But watches could take this concept at a smaller scale and provide at least double the screen real estate without ending up looking like a brick.
The bands on some watches are already fairly thick, and people have shown they are fine wearing thick bracelet things for decoration. Why not embed batteries into parts of the band? The obvious case would be the big metal links (like tank tracks), with the wiring through the link connections. Not only would you be able to store a whole lot more energy compared to a single battery in the watch body, but you could also have swappable bands so you could always have one charged and ready.
I have a Garmin vívoactive 3 which to me is a good fit because it is "smart enough" - all the basic features I would want from a smartwatch (fitness tracking, GPS, phone notifications, music control) behind a fairly basic UI. My partner bought an Apple Watch a while ago and while it's quite snazzy and probably does a lot more stuff, the battery life really limits its usefulness and it is very expensive for what it is.
I've had mine just over 2.5 years. It's still going strong so hopefully it will continue to serve me for a while yet, but comparing smartwatches to traditional watches really makes you realise how short-term these gadgets are. People here talking about their 16 year old Casio watches - no way this Garmin will reach anything like that age. And then of course you have those quality timepieces that are passed down through generations.
Really interested to hear more real-life user reviews of the BankgleJS 2, which I only heard about recently and seems to tick all the boxes while being open and hackable.
Found on that site; Wena Pro and Wena 3.
What a great idea, I love my old mechanical watches, really like metal bracelets, and I do like having smart watch features.
Unfortunately seems like Wena is a bad implementation of this concept. What other companies make things like this?
I've been considering the Withings Scanwatch because it looks closer to a normal watch.
It does look nice. I like the health tracking these modern watches do and silent notifications on the wrist was the original reason I went with smart watches. I'm just a little sad my older mechanical watches are only brought out on special occasions these days.
Nice to see someone lauding the Timex Datalink (the 851), which IMO is the best smartwatch ever made. I would pay modern smartwatch money for a proper re-release. The original software still works perfectly on W10.
When I built my smartwatch, I went with ESP32-PICO and bluetooth low energy for connecting to my phone. Battery lifetime is excellent, but not quite a year because I poll weather data over wifi once every 10 minutes.
What type of screen did you settle on for your smartwatch?
Waveshare eink. They had the power supply schematics and driver source code on their homepage, which seemed convenient.
Why not something like Casio G-SQUAD GBD-100/200 (starts from ~110USD)? Or there are also pricier Garmin Instinct Solar with solar transflective display which should last loong time (since he doesn't mind bulky watch unlike me).
Casio claim to last one year on battery with notifications, Garmin 50+ days as smartwatch.
I wish Casio made something like this (transflective graphic display which can display texts/simple graphic) in F91 form factor with rechargable battery, I wouldn't mind if it last only few months between charges. Currently using Amazfit Bip which I charge once a month.
In terms of keeping time and no unrelated features, the CASIO G-shock tough solar radio are the best. Cheap, durable, solar and synchronized via radio (plus other things like chronometer and word times).
But Casio already manufacture smartwatches, which meets OPs criteria like 1 year battery life. For example G-Shock GBD-H1000. But they are rather bulky, comparing to the alternatives he mentions.
I really like wearing real watches, but I still want to pay attention to health and activity, so I’ve been wearing a Fitbit luxe on my other wrist.
It’s been fine so far, battery life is good, seems to be reliable.
However, what drives me nuts on this thing is that I distinctly DON’T want it to be a watch, I just want the stats on the face, and there is absolutely no option for the watch face that doesn’t include a huge current time on the front.
I wish there was a device with this exact form factor, but was just programmable. Call it OpenFit or something.
Fitbit does have it's own SDK, that you can use to write both apps and watch faces. In theory you could create a watch face that met your needs.
The SDK is pure JavaScript and seems friendly enough (I only got a few examples working and lost interest) - https://dev.fitbit.com/build/tutorials/examples/
I don't know if the SDK can target the luxe BTW
yeah unfortunately it seems to only be available for their larger devices, which is a bummer because the way I'm using mine, I intentionally want it to not look like a watch but instead more like a bracelet so I don't look like some weirdo wearing two watches :)
Or go for better, FOSS smartwatch :
PineTime : https://www.pine64.org/pinetime/
Charging one time a week.
Recently purchased a PineTime and have been very impressed. It's more comfortable than my Casio F-91W.
The battery life also seems significantly better than advertised. I unboxed and charged to 100% on 13th November, and now on 21st November it's sitting at 43%. I wake the display up maybe a dozen times per day to check the time, read notifications, or pick up a phone call.
Updating the firmware was a breeze, the thing just works. Only snag I've noticed is that the pedometer is too sensitive, with no obvious way to adjust sensitivity.
I haven't risked showering with it yet, but it's supposed to be waterproof up to 1 meter. I suppose this implies it wouldn't survive a swimming session though.
I own one, mine's really waterproof, I almost always forget to take it of when doing the dishes or bathing the baby. Agree, it's great, I only wish it had some kind of transflective lcd screen ( like the garmin's ) : better battery life and always readable screen...
Another one, I built one of the originals a while back and have been procrastinating on actually getting the PCBs I designed for the GPS version manufactured:
I love my protrek. I have a PRW-3000 with the inverted LCD. I have worn it every day for at least a decade.
I still want a smart watch of sorts. Just nothing out there has grabbed my attention yet. The last "smart watch" I had was the OnHand PC which was the americanized version of the Matsucom RuPuter.
Over the past 2 yes I've bought 3 F91W. The band keeps breaking. Does anyone have a suggestion on how to get a better band? I didn't seem like changing band is doable without appropriate tools, and furthermore I don't know how to ensure I know his to buy a band that is "compatible".
Same problem with F-105. Constant exposure to pool water seems to kill the wristband. I just got a black elastic band from a haberdashery store and experimented with it. My final solution is to cut a segment, seal both ends with superglue (to keep rubber strands fixed to the band structure) and fold over the pins and sew ends (used black dental floss since all I had at the time). Band is 20mm wide which is a tad too wide but works fine for me. It is very comfortable and I am never going back to a stock bands. They were selling the elastic band by the meter so I have enough for a decade or so.
https://www.reddit.com/r/F91Ws_on_NATOs/ It's a pretty common mod, the sidebar describes the process and mentions using 18mm nato straps, though apparently you might want to grind a little off the back of the lug to make it fit better. It also mentions using a paperclip or some other pin to get the spring bar out, so it doesn't seem like it requires much.
Thanks for the suggestion, but no. That seems really dangerous. If it gets stuck somewhere heavy or fast, that strap looks like it can take more than your body weight with it...
Yes, nylon strap is the way to go. Feels great, can get wet, far more durable.
I bought this 18mm strap: https://aliexpress.com/item/33044774071.html
And this tool: https://aliexpress.com/item/32976742331.html
2nd link is 404, +1 for nylon
The F-91W has 18mm lugs, but it uses a friction-held (non-spring) bar, which limits your options. Further limiting it is that it doesn't quite look right without the flare out and taper. Some people don't mind this and swap it with a 18mm NATO strap and just wear it like that indefinitely.
I solved this problem by going on Aliexpress and ordering replacement metal band that fits the F-91w, A-158, and similar models. It costed $4.98. Been using it ever since and it works great. Being metal, now it's the least fragile part of the watch. You can also just upgrade to the ~$20 A-158, or one of the other metal band Casios, and get that out of the box. Timex also makes the T80 with a metal band as well.
I slightly prefer the light weight of the plastic band, but if you're okay with a metal band and your arm isn't too hairy (these low end metal bands like these can be painful if you are), then that's an option. The only tool you'll need to replace this is a spring bar tool that has the straight poker end or something similar.
It's a bit fiddly to change watch straps on a F91W. You want to put spring bars in there, which is what watch straps attach to, and you'll have to use a bit of force. A sharp knife helps.
There are plenty of almost-similar models, with the same low prices and some have standard lugs. The A158W is one of them. Then buy any strap you want, leather or textile are nice and cheap.
You'll want 18mm wide bars and straps.
Spend a few bucks more for one with a metal band[1]
1: https://www.amazon.com/Casio-A158WA-1-Water-Resistant-Digita...
It’s super annoying because those bands cost pennies each to make yet by the time they are individually packaged, they are $10 ea. I wish I could buy a lifetime supply. Maybe 50 for $50.
Get an A1000.
A1000 costs $250. F91W costs like $10.
It costs $79.
I gave an Amazon price for an A1000 model, not that one.
I just searched casio A1000 on amazon, and there's even cheaper actually.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000GAYQJ0
A158
Do you know the difference between the A158 and the A1000? And don't say it's 842 :D
The A1000 line has a metal case, while the A158 has a resin case that is chrome plated. They might be a different size, and they have different specs for weight and battery life. The A1000MA is kind of a buy-it-for-life-grade version of the A158 that recently came out.
I have a need for something like this "WatchMinder":
https://watchminder.com/shop/watchminder3
It's pretty good, battery lasts a month, but it has a stupid limitation: the programmable reminder messages don't allow numbers, only letters.
Also, it's nice that you can program the watch directly, but a smartphone app or laptop would make it easier: I would be OK with a USB cable from the charging station in lieu of Bluetooth.
Smartwatches should be able to provide this function, but they don't. For example, reminders should repeat until acknowledged. (Text messages on phones should do the same thing...)
> Text messages on phones should (optionally) do the same thing...
Fixed that.
Please, just make all things possible! Let me micro-manage the shit out of notifications!
I've had a Withings Steel HR (was briefly owned by Nokia) for 5 years and would recommend it to anyone. About £150 new, still achieves a month plus battery and in that time all I've done is change the band a few times.
Same, also for about five years now!
Upsides: Month long battery (doesn't use a standard USB cable, but it reaches full charge in about an hour), basic activity tracking, smart alarm clock (which I absolutely adore[0], haven't used phone's alarm for years), no subscription needed for any of its features.
Downsides: glass is not scratch-resistant (mine's full of scratches), getting data out of via API is not trivial, and the screen itself is annoyingly small (it can fit like 10 characters).
For the past two or three years I did look into other options a couple of times, but they all either don't have any additional actually useful features, or if they do their battery barely lasts days. I don't see myself switching to anything else for the foreseeable future, unless Withings goes out of business of course.
[0] Instead of telling it "wake me up at 9am", you can tell it "I need to wake up at 9am, but 8:30am is fine if you detect my sleep is weak". It wakes you up by vibrating. Quick press of the only button on the watch turns the alarm off, longer press snoozes it for 10 minutes.
EDIT: I also discovered by accident that it still "works" even with 0% battery. I forgot to bring that special USB cable with me on some trip and I still used it to track time/steps for days until I returned home.
> Downsides: glass is not scratch-resistant (mine's full of scratches),
The latest models do not have this problem.
> EDITED: I also discovered by accident that it still "works" even with 0% battery.
This is by design, I think in dumb mode it gets you another 5-10 days.
+1 for Withings, I really like that it looks and feels like a real watch (some models have a small display that is normally off).
The latest models have"only" 2-3 weeks battery but pack a ton of medical features (Withings is a medical company).
Is it hackable? I don't want to faff about with proprietary bloated apps, I just want to interface with it to read sensors/write data via whatever application I choose.
needs to be recharged weekly and software can brake with each update but BangleJS2 should cover most requirements: https://banglejs.com/
There are the nordic nrf52xxx based btle smartwatches for <$30, search 'smartwatch P8' for example.
The firmware can be replaced with your own.
The battery won't last a year though.
Just a happy customer of and hacking: https://wiki.pine64.org/wiki/PineTime
From what I found (Colmi P8) judging by display these will last just few days at best unlike Amazfit Bip which can easily last one month with always on display perfectly readable in daylight without any backlight plus allowing custom firmware. The issue with original Bip/Bip S is they don't produce them anymore, so you have to buy used (as I did after first fell apart) for like 20USD or buy some clone (also not that easy to find).
Amazfit have a few model even Bip has a few. Do you have particular recommendation on them?
Do you care to comment on the smartwatch features or health monitoring one?
Only original Bip and then successor Bip S have battery life measured in weeks, the new versions with fancy displays have already crap battery life. In my country none of the old two is sold anymore. I don't really care for health monitoring (i need smart watch only to get and read notifications), it measures heart rate, sleep, steps, sleep is quite accurate, the others can't say.
I remember there is now basically rebranded Bip with different firmware sold under different name (Bangle.js 2 or some other unknown chinese models), but nothing improved in last few years for low price in compact body. Everything else like those Casio or Garmin watch with good displays and battery life or LILYGO TTGO T-Watch-2020 are like 15mm, more than 50% ticker than original Bip.
Bangle.js 2 is SMA Q3. But yes, its a nRF52840.
In addition to what Markoff said, I recommend sticking with the original Bip or Bip Lite; nothing else, including other Bip models. Only those two give you access to [the world's largest library of watch faces](https://amazfitwatchfaces.com/bip/fresh).
I like Bip so much that when it failed (because of a design flaw fixed in Lite and later Bip models), I bought Bip Lite (since I never used Bip's GPS, always using the phone's instead).
I just found Garmin Approach S20, they seem relatively thin, use MIP display and should have also battery life in weeks used as smartwatch without GPS.
Still for sale on their website $39.99.
Is that a different model? Is the website defunct?
Dunno what's their website, it is not sold in any online shop in my country, only power hungry successors are sold. Care to link site where they are still selling new Amazfit Bip or Amazfit Bip S?
https://us.amazfit.com/products/amazfit-bip-s
on closer inspection, it does say 'out of stock'
Any good resources for replacing the firmware and other hacks?
Try wasp-os https://github.com/daniel-thompson/wasp-os
I have a colmi P8 and it was easy to get wasp-os uploaded and now have micropython available with direct connection into the watch!
Battery life is really only 24-48hrs if you don’t do anything heavy.
Sometimes I wonder how more useful it is than my apple watch.
The Sony Wega 3 looks really interesting, though probably not at that price. Definitely a tech idea worth exploring further. :) As for watches, I tend towards cheap timex windup watches. They tell time well enough, I can read the dial with my distance glasses on, and I don't feel too bad when something happens and they inevitably get broken.
Sad thing is, I've only started needing a watch since the nearest church stopped ringing their bells before 9am. That used to be 'accurate enough' and I didn't need to wear anything.
I can find this watch by googling "pro trek". At first I thought it's just because that's the name of a series and not a watch, but I can't even find that watch in that series. What am I doing wrong?
Try searching for "pro trek prw-3100t". I'm guessing that specific model is no longer produced, but you might be able to find it in a secondhand market like eBay.
I could find the website, my point was I couldn't find the specific watch on the picture in that website.
I'm surprised the investigated options don't include modifying a watch with a solar panel, given that battery life is an important factor; 1 year seems good but isn't comparable to solar.
He needs to port a FPS to the Timex. There is already tetris :)
>magnetometer or IR photodiode that I could use to build a low-bandwidth communication channel
Maybe I'm missing something, but why not go for something more straightforward like BTLE? There will be some hit to battery, but probably not that much, in exchange for a huge gain in convenience if you want to sync with your phone or whatever
Did you say straight forward and bluetooth in the same sentence?!
just yesterday (after yet another pairing problem) I was thinking that it’s amazing how bluetooth has been released ~20 years ago and it’s still a pain in the *ss to use
Yeah. I've used it in the past and it was fine (even on hardware that didn't have good software support). I can't imagine it would be any easier to try and send notifications via magnetometer
Agree, something like the nRF52832 with Nordic Semiconductor's BLE DFU would be awesome. This isn't a trivial change though (new PCB spin, lots of sofware porting). Additionally, the MCU he's already using comes with an LCD driver. AFAIK, small MCUs with a usable BLE stack + LCD driver are far and few between. You could add a dedicated slave driver for the LCD, but again, this is a bunch of work.
I'd love to see this happen though!
Yeah, BLE has hardly any consumption, my Amazfit Bip can easily last 30-40 days always connected with lots of notifications.
F105W (which is like F91W + illumination)
Light, reliable, cheap. A true spartan watch
I don't get it. F91W already has illumination.
It's a little different, the F91W has a little light that shines from one side onto the front of the LCD display whereas (if it's anything like my Casio W86-1) I think the F105W is backlit. So they both have a light, but one is much clearer.
edit, just confirmed that this is the case:
F91W light: https://i0.wp.com/thetruthaboutwatches.com/wp-content/upload...
F105W light: https://media.karousell.com/media/photos/products/2021/7/19/...
I can confirm that the light of the F91W is very poor. I think that given the price difference it's not worth it to buy the F91W anymore.
Bangle.js 2 sounds like a good option. The hackability is second to none. https://banglejs.com/
Does anyone have an RSS link for this blog? I want to be alerted of his follow up article
I have a Garmin Fenix GPS doodad, and I regularly get lost in the UI. Great watch though