Netflix launches an ad-supported tier
about.netflix.comOn day 0, this probably doesn't affect most folks here. The option to not have ads remains, and thus far at the same-ish price, hand-waving preexisting upward adjustments.
Most of the brouhaha around this will be pricing-related: will Netflix use this to boost their prices???? Will I have to pay more??????
I dunno. Maybe. Doesn't seem unlikely. I don't really care, though, to be honest. $5 a month doesn't make a huge difference.
What concerns me is that this changes Netflix's incentive structure. Prior to this change, Netflix had one customer base: the viewers. So content was produced with the primary goal of making the viewers happy, enough so to continue paying them month over month.
Now, the shift is towards also having another customer base: advertising buyers. Will they have direct input into what content is produced? If not direct, will they have the right of refusal, or pressure? "We won't put our ads next to that" will likely reduce the amount of "that" being produced. Additionally, since ads are shown per time block, this adds an incentive to produce content that takes longer to watch rather than content that you can enjoy in concentration.
You are not wrong, but they had ads before: it was just called product placements. For example their Swiss Family Robinson (but in space) had a 15-20 minute segment of an episode about a packet of Oreos.
I looked it up and oof that's rough. It almost seems like a YouTube parody account photoshopped the oreos in.
holy shit - this is aweful. I have, for a long time refused to watch any netflix produced content - i almost dont care about the diamonds in the rough after seeing stuff like this.
It's like all the services are increasing their price and decreasing the content/quality.
I find that's issue with startup culture where they have lost billions of dollars in name of growth and now they need to recover
My gripe here is, for example, YouTube premium charging to remove ads and that indeed does make the experience better - and then there are sponsorship messages for stuff I won't name <cough> nordvpn for instance. There seems to be no rules about in-video sponsorship which honestly is driving me nuts. I feel like it is impossible to get away from ads no matter what one pays at this point.
Though I pay for premium because I loathe ads, it still feels like a blackmail payment. A bit like paying protection money to the mafia.
That said, sponsorblock works decently well for automatically skipping sponsored messages.
> YouTube premium charging to remove ads [...] and then there are sponsorship messages
That's the main reason I won't even consider YouTube Premium - pointless to pay for "an ad-free experience" when, instead, you get a 5 minute segment in the middle of a video shilling for [flavour of the month]VPN or Audible.
Well, there are nuances.
If you are playing a playlist of music videos, "standard" ads ruin your playlist. And music videos don't have sponsor interruptions.
That said, the "sponsor segment" has become a staple in the YouTube channels I follow, and it is noticeable, but most authors will helpfully place it in its own segment, where you can skip it. I never watch the sponsor messages, because why would I? Ads suck.
If you use SmartTube App (afaik only on TV) it can automatically skip these segments (as well as ads)
Alas, it is a Samsung TV with an Apple TV plugged in. Double-unsupported!
Well, yes. They all have to become long-term profitable, so that's how it works.
You can't really complain, though. It was nice to have better-quality content for cheap while it lasted, so we can just appreciate that. But now you actually have to pay what things are worth. I don't see the problem.
yes, you can complain that artificially low prices snuff out competitors and long run lead to a less competitive market
It doesn't help that the original appeal of Netflix (having everything at your fingertips) was ruined by media companies starting their own streaming sites
Netflix (streaming) never gave you everything at your fingertips though. If you wanted a full film catalog you subscribed--or do subscribe though the back catalog has degraded--to the DVD by mail service.
We shouldn't allow vertical integration of streaming services and production. Just like we (in the US, at least) didn't allow vertical integration of movie theaters and movie production for decades (ended only very recently). It'd solve a lot of the problems in this space.
Up to 5 minutes per hour of ads, one device, streaming only (no downloading for planes/etc), 720p max, 10% of the catalog unavailable.
That’s a hell of a lot of compromises.
They could probably honestly remove 10% of the catalog and nobody would miss anything.
It feels like 80% of the catalog is Netflix homebrewed garbage, another 10% is foreign dubbed garbage, and the remaining 10% you've probably already seen.
I honestly have never thought harder about outright cancelling Netflix. I'm very close...
Every time I log in to watch something, Netflix recommends TV Shows and Movies they know I have already watched because I watched them on Netflix. The rest of the recommendations are Netflix original content, of which I find maybe less than 10% to actually be worth the time to watch. I have never before left so many movies and TV shows unfinished... and the list continues to grow.
I cannot recall the last time I searched for a movie and found exactly what I was looking for.
The value of Netflix has decreased sharply in the past few years.
The 10% of the catalog this removes is probably the only 10% of the catalog people really want to watch...
It's probably the most expensive 10% as far as licensing goes.
I wonder how many people actually just rewatch their favorite shows over and over. I definitely do that with a few shows when I just want something easy (e.g. I'm cooking and put on an episode of Bob's Burgers in the background even though I've seen it a few times)
I suspect a lot of people do this. A friend of mine listens to old familiar audiobooks they've heard dozens of times when they are trying to sleep. I can understand why people might find comfort in rewatching their favorite shows and listening to the same music they always have.
> another 10% is foreign dubbed garbage
Foreign to whom? Or do you mean, whatever your nationality, Netflix has a constant 10% of "foreign dubbed garbage" that will be foreign to you?
Poorly voiced overdubbed lines will ruin a movie regardless of it's national origin.
I don't disagree -- I dislike dubs, always. Subtitles for the win! -- but do you see my point?
Let me state it outright: I believe you're a native English speaker, likely from the US, and you believe "foreign" means "not made in America". Am I wrong? The point is: Netflix caters to a global audience. Korean shows aren't foreign to Netflix's Korean audience. So it's very unlikely that there's a constant 10% "foreign dubbed garbage" for any given spectator.
Also, I may be wrong, but every Netflix show I've seen is available in its original language (plus some additional dub options, of course). So you never need to watch the "garbage dub".
I cannot eat dinner and read subtitles without needing to pause/rewind over and over. It takes focus, and also distracts from actor's expressions and the overall scene. At least for me.
Dubs can be done very well - see Squid Game. The voices matched the characters in both body/expression and situation. The mouths fairly closely matched the voices as well, and in some scenes you might even forget they're dubs you're listening too.
The problem is, Netflix seems to push poorly done foreign films with even more poorly done dubs way too often.
> Netflix caters to a global audience
The catalog you see is what is available for your country. Which means it's curated for your country and it's interests, and/or allowed licenses. I have no doubt the Korean version of Netflix is filled with native Korean shows/movies. For some reason though, Netflix is pushing French and Belgian movies onto the US audience, mostly with horrible dubbing coupled with already atrocious acting. It feels like a "these are cheap, stuff them into the catalog!" sort of thing... meanwhile US viewers can't watch shows they actually want, like Better Call Saul season 6...
A-ha! Like I assumed, you're from the US and think shows not made in America are "foreign". You have to be careful when assuming everyone reading your comments in HN is from the US as well. Netflix is a global service, something may be foreign to you, but not to the person reading your comments here.
> The catalog you see is what is available for your country
That's not really relevant to my point, is it? In any case, I can assure I can see plenty of Korean, Turkish, Swedish, etc, shows listed on Netflix.. here in my Latin American country.
Any way you look at it, the assertion that Netflix has "10% foreign dubbed garbage" is poorly phrased and probably false.
> another 10% is foreign dubbed garbage,
I'd honestly pay them extra for a good UI that showed ONLY that. Limiting yourself to english is extremely shallow.
> Limiting yourself to english is extremely shallow
I get what you and parent post are saying, but do remember Netflix caters to other audiences. "Foreign" is relative. To me, English is a foreign language.
The language isn’t the point - you are watching with subtitles. It’s the entirely different culture that you get to see. Sure, some french and spanish movies are tad too predictable and sweet, but still you get to see different world.
I don't disagree. I'm just making a point that if you're not American, movies not made in America are not "foreign". Netflix caters to a global audience, so it makes no sense to speak of "foreign" movies as if facts about them were universal, on a site like HN. What's foreign to you is not foreign to me (it may, in fact, be from my country!).
I agree that being exposed to movies and shows from all over the world is a good thing.
If it's high quality, sure.
Most of the Netflix-made catalogue is garbage regardless of language.
the 10% not available is due to licensing, i.e. stuff that doesn't want to be run with ads. Assuming that is the more premium content.
> 720p max That is definetly a deal breaker for anyone with a new device post ~2012. I'd class 720p as outdated given todays technology and I can't see anyone going for this. I'm going to make some shameless generalisations here, but a better pilot country would be one that is less ecnonomically developed where people are more likely to have outdated hardware, not the US.
> 10% of the catalog unavailable I wonder if this'll be hit Netflix shows (e.g Money Heist, The Crown, The Queens Gambit) or niche shows that have significantly less viewers.
I find 720p entirely OK at 8-10' from a 65" screen. But distractingly fuzzy/pixelly at ~5-6' from the same screen. And lots of people are on smaller, older screens (in the 30" and 40" ranges) and/or at viewing distances where 720p vs. 1080p isn't really a big difference.
And then there are young kids, who truly do not give a shit and if you've mainly got Netflix for them, 720p would definitely be fine. Though their kids' content is so bad, on average, and last I checked you can't narrow kids' accounts down to an allowlist instead of just "everything Netflix marked as for-kids", that I wouldn't recommend turning kids loose on it, personally, even with time-limits.
720p is more than adequate for most shows and movies. I don't mind 720p at all.
Yeah, that's still a better-than-DVD level of quality.
It may be adequate for you, but I don't have a 4k screen to watch low quality content, unless the content I want to watch cannot be had in a reasonable quality.
If you are watching it on your phone, then I completely agree with you, but I don't do that.
I don't own a 4k TV, just 1080p that's around a decade old now.
You should see Netflix's 720p. It looks like 320p.
At some point I noticed that Netflix had created different priced packages for 4K, 1080p and 720p (I think) and automatically enrolled me in the 4K package. When I found this I just downgraded to 720p (I think) and ended up saving $5 a month. I haven't noticed the quality difference but my TV is from the 2000's.
I’m guessing the 10% is from the non-Netflix stuff they have licensed from others.
Not really -- it's a fantastic price point for an individual subscription to watch on your laptop or iPad. Where most people don't care about 720p vs 1080p anyways.
If you're a college student or not making a lot of money, and therefore not traveling a lot -- this is awesome.
How so?
If you watch 10 hours of Netflix a week, you're watching about 3 and 1/2 hours of ads a month. All to save $3. Not to mention having access to less content.
I mean, across a 4 year college education, saving $3/mo is saving $144. That's like half the price of a cheap laptop or medium-priced cell phone. And when you have Spotify and whatever else, subscriptions add up. So it seems entirely reasonable to me.
And the catalog was anyway steadily going down...
I wonder if the 10% is purposely vague so that they can use a random 10 percent of content to A/B test platform engagement (maybe plan upgrades) and ad engagement.
That's mostly same as Basic, only downgrade is less catalog and no downloads, all for $3 per month savings.
I'd guess most people wouldn't notice really.
Since Netflix is now in the ads game, I can't trust it even if I do avoid the ad-supported tier. I have to assume that they're now gathering my data and making it available to advertisers anyway. Another service destroyed (for me) by advertising.
Advertising that is partially powered by Microsoft. Yes, Netflix is selling audience data.
It strikes me that supporting ads has a huge impact on the technical infrastructure. It complicates server deployment and client UI. And how would you tailor markets to regions? subscriber preferences? coveted spots (just before that cliff-hanger...)? Oy
I'd be interested in ballpark resource estimates for added complexity and staffing for operations and for the ad business units.
Most importantly, is most of the cost up-front in infrastructure development, or do the ad business units themselves eat so much they don't make sense below a certain level of adoption?
i.e., - How many ad-supported users does Netflix need for the ad tier to justify its fixed and operational costs?
- What about cannibalizing the higher tiers? Can ads end up being a net revenue loss even if they pay for themselves?
- If it is complicated and hard, and they get it right, can it be a moat for them?
Way too many questions.
I wonder who this new option is supposed to appeal to. Probably just an excuse to jack up the actual valid options to a higher price in comparison?
Or for third parties to bundle "for free."
For example Walmart+ bundles Paramount+'s ad tier. T-Mobile currently bundles the Ad-Free Basic/Standard depending on wireless plan, maybe they'll move to the Ad tier.
My guess is it's for packages where you get Netflix included with something else. For example, you sign up for Verizon and get Netflix for 6 months. Now they have a cheap version of Netflix to give you.
The old mackbook strategy
People who got six months of a Netflix subscription as a Christmas gift and got partway through a series,
Correct. This is the start of increasing prices and testing ads on other tiers.
Ahh the slippery slope towards the day that maybe "a little bit" of ads can be shown across all subscription tiers has started...
Once you can show ads in one place, the pressure to show ads across the board will become enormous.
To me, this action speaks of the continued fall of Netflix. If their content can't support them with subscriptions, it probably won't support them with subscriptions plus intrusive brain worms, err, ads. This is a pattern seen all the time in gaming - a subscription service downgrades to F2P, then a vast majority of them go away.
The differences between the successes and failures comes down to content, not business models. And Netflix' content is very thin for my tastes.
haven't F2P games become so widespread because they're much _more_ profitable? I think you're letting your own opinions on this substitute for some kind of business analysis
Note that specifically, I'm talking about games that have made the transition. Like WildStar, Rift, Warhammer Online, et.al.
Sure, F2P games (which are never just ad supported, mind you) can be wildly popular and profitable. But not all of them. For every exploitative success like Diablo Immortal, there are thousands of games which hit the app stores and quietly vanished.
I wonder if they'll force their Netflix produced shows to be structured like network TV ones where optimal moments are created for ad placement.
Ads otherwise are extremely jarring.
Curious that the UK announcement, at https://about.netflix.com/en/news/our-newest-plan-now-availa..., mentions:
> In the UK, there will also be nationally recognised brands such as HSBC, T-Mobile, GoCompare, Lidl and Ernest Jones.
T-Mobile hasn't been a consumer-facing brand in the UK for at least seven years.
Anyone have recommendations for setting up a mini home server to download and store torrented movies? I want something that "kinda just works", like what hardware and software? Only for movies I have consent and rights to torrent, ofcourse.
I am not a fan of movie piracy and as such i would recommend you stay away from kodi and irc. Deluge web torrent is the worst offender. All of these run on raspberry pis with huge usb storage extensions. Those tools are horrible and i dont recommend plugging in raspberry pi via hdmi to your tv or setting up file sharing. Even worse i dont recommend setting up pihole dns on the same rpi as it hides ads.
A Synology NAS works well for this as a 'just works' plus plenty of space configuration
> We are excited to begin rolling out a new plan at $6.99/month from November 3 in the US.
You have to click through the link to see that "in the US" actually means
> Australia, Brazil, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan, Korea, Mexico, Spain, the UK and the US.
People seem to forget that Hulu has been supported by this model for quite some time. In some ways, it's a return to form: television was historically supported by ads and is returning to ads for support.
That form sucked. The break was nice.
> a limited number of movies and TV shows won't be available due to licensing restrictions, which we’re working on
This needs much more detail. What isn't available and in what regions?
Do you think a streaming website which barely has actual categories to browse from, routinely autocompletes unlicensed shows in the search bar as if they were available and doesn't have a database to search which show is available in which country will actually provide those details to the public?
lol
Netflix keep making content. How long until they have so much that we are content just to explore the back catalogue? Can margins increase massively over the long run?
It costs less than that to get a good privacy-protecting VPN (njalla, mullvad) and to set up all the *darr stack on your laptop. Just saying.
Where can someone get unbiased technical reviews of privacy-protecting/privacy-focused VPNs? Paid is fine, but every time I read a VPN review I feel like I'm about to get my pockets picked.
I know that this is not a proper review, but I just gave you the names of the only VPNs I used and trust. I prefer njalla because they don't even require any special app and just give you the configuration files if you want to use wireguard or OpenVPN.
I have no opinion on njalla but every VPN I've used will give you OpenVPN configuration files to use, I actually think it is pretty common.
Right, but there are also all those other providers who wants you to use their own app. "Being able to connect only with a configuration file" is a necessary but not sufficient condition on my checklist.
Netflix has had ads for a long time. They call it "product placement" and "branded entertainment".
This reminded me to cancel Netflix after I revived it briefly to watch season 2 of the Dota anime lol
Soap2day lookin real spicy right now