White Americans are beginning to realise that they too belong to a race
economist.comAlso, what's the deal with the tone of the economist article? In the past I found them terse, detached and aloof, a little bit arrogant. This has the nyt/atlantic feel of someone who fancies themselves an undiscovered future award winner trying to write about the human side and choosing feelings over facts and analysis.
Derek chauvin was born three years after George Floyd, and grew up in Cottage Grove, a suburb of the Twin Cities 20 miles from the corner where one man killed the other
If I were dog, I would be a mutt.
But due to being human, I just call myself an Earthling. This despite my heritage being from multiple cultures (8?) from around the world, some of them very long lived within their family trees. If you were to do a full deep dive on my lineage, you would find that my bloodline goes back not just decades, or even centuries, but millenniums. Technically, so too does everyone else who is alive today, for we all came from some line of apes that evolved or another. And that's ignoring all the stuff about Neanderthals and such.
To me, it doesn't matter who you are, what you look like, or where you came from. What you believe is another matter, since there are wrong opinions about many things abound, but I tend to leave that alone; because arguing with idiots is a good way to lose to them when idiocy outnumbers intelligence since the days of the stone age. (With some exceptions thanks to the coincidental silver lining of plagues.)
To me, people who focus solely on race in any fashion, need to stop. Not only is it not rational, but it's divisive. Which is why politicians love using it in some form or another, when we start to get along again; and most intelligent people know that politicians are less trustworthy than some random person on the internet.
Yet we keep falling for their bullshit. Why?
Because we deeply want to belong to something more than just ourselves, I think. And when that thing we belong to is supposedly threatened by another group inside or out of our own group, we fight them.
Doesn't matter which group, it's the same for all.
Now excuse me while I go back to trying to get things put together in my own life so I can make a place for people who think like me where we can escape the rest who obsess about race, colour or creed.
You're all welcome to join me, though it may take some of you time to de-escalate your emotions over these sorts of things.
> Yet we keep falling for their bullshit. Why?
> Because we deeply want to belong to something more than just ourselves, I think.
I think in most cases it's simpler than that. People go along with this kind of BS because they are afraid of being labeled as racist (and in doing so, ironically perpetuate racism). It's a shortcut that special interest have found so shut down discussion: "you're with us or you're racist (or some other 'phobic'") and people end up going along for the most part
Yes and no.
It's reverse psychology as well to some extent, in my opinion. Or rather, reverse politics perhaps? Is that even a term? Maybe it should be.
One way or the other though, I don't see any issue with being wary of racism. What I see issue with, is bringing it up where there is none, or very little compared to the kind of response being given. And so that's where we seem to agree in the part where you speak of the irony of perpetuating it. (Edit: I should cite an example here. Where I lived before moving back to the city, there was very little racism if any at all. Yet the younger generation and some of my peers would act as if there were KKK members lynching people in the streets. Meanwhile, these same people would spout off about all sorts of atrocious things, depending on their ideological bent.)
As for people going along with things for the most part... Yeah, group think is strong with those who can't think for themselves, especially when they are so weak willed that they will not stand up against those who we would have labelled as bullies as kids.
And then there is stuff like this: https://jamesclear.com/why-facts-dont-change-minds
People like to agree with each other, because they often don't like conflict. But ironically, the only way to deal with those who are essentially bullies, is to fight them. Ignoring them doesn't work, because it just lets them get away with it, and then they grow up into being bullies as adults.
I used to argue this point with my parents, teachers and all other adults as a kid, and now I get to say this: I was right, and the rest were wrong. Ignoring bullies doesn't work, you have to teach them their lesson on the level they understand; whether you like it or not.
But I would much rather just let the world burn now, while I sit back on a small farm and enjoy life while it still lasts. Why?
Because this kind of chaos is what starts world wars, and this one coming up will lead to the 4th being fought with sticks and stones if any of us survive.
Being correct is so awesome... (sarcasm)
> People go along with this kind of BS because they are afraid of being labeled as racist
Do you actually know anyone for whom this is true? Afraid of being labeled racist? If you're not racist that strikes me as a crazy thing to obsess over.
If you're not racist, being labeled racist can cause real, concrete damage. Economic damage, social damage, professional damage. In the current climate, it is to at least some degree rational to want to not be labeled racist.
No one would want to be labeled a racist. I think the difference is how constantly worried you are you about it — do you change your behavior in order to steer clear of anything that might remotely look questionable. My friends who are also coworkers never behaved differently around me when in public or in private.
I do.
Basically (almost) everyone in every class I've ever been in, in every school I ever went to, in every province I ever lived in here in Canada.
And they are now adults.
No one who is not racist likes being called racist, and will stoop to all sorts of levels below themselves to somehow prop themselves up as holier than thou.
Literaly everyone I know with the exclusion of myself.
>People go along with this kind of BS because they are afraid of being labeled as communist
Do you actually know anyone for whom this is true? Afraid of being labeled communist? If you're not communist that strikes me as a crazy thing to obsess over.
See what I did there? These were legitimate fears during the Red Scare. We're similarly in another moral panic, and a lot of these terrible situations are resurrecting.
I just am who I am and people are free to call me what they please. It's always been that way. Doing any differently is acting out of fear. I just don't see any reason to feel fearful.
Back in the 70's did men go around making sure everyone knew they were straight? Some did I suppose, but it was probably kind of sad or embarrassing.
Almost as if it's a bad idea to try reducing people to irrelevant traits
This is an example of the celebration parallax:
It's a neo-Nazi White supremacist myth that the White population is declining! It's not happening but I'm glad that it is!
No way this doesn't get [flagged] by the end of the night.
This is technically true.
It is just as true as any other "race" determined by phenotypy.
Being white and not self-loathing is practically a hate-crime these days. If you happen to be male and heterosexual too, you're worse than Hitler and should begin self-flagellation immediately.
Personally I find it offensive to be continually lectured on what a rich, over-priveleged piece of shit I am, just because I was born white. By people with more wealth and privilege than anyone in my working class family has ever enjoyed.
Political correctness, and its never-ending hammering on an already open door, has actually made me more racist of late, where I wasn't at all before.
> Being white and not self-loathing is practically a hate-crime these days.
...in the USA. In other parts of the world, not so much. Unfortunately, the USA has enormous influence on the culture in other countries: through business culture, tech giants and so on. So many of these alien concepts transpire to societies where they make little sense.
So it's only "in the USA" but due to cultural influence it transpires everywhere. So it's not just a US problem.
The idea that someone should be hated because of the color of their skin makes sense no where, not even in the US.
> The idea that someone should be hated because of the color of their skin makes sense no where, not even in the US.
There is an enormous sense between what you quote above and the comment I was replying to ("being white and not self-loathing is practically a hate-crime these days") especially in countries without a history of slavery or racial conflicts. And I think this lack of balance/distinction might be a huge problem here. You don't really go to extremes like self-loathing in order to show your respect and appreciation of other races.
Not even sure what point you're trying to make. I was just surprised by your contradictory message claiming that it was only an American thing.
I would be curious to know which country/territory doesn't have slavery in their past (maybe Australia?).
I'm sorry, I could be more clear. My main point is that you don't necessarily have to denigrate your own race, whatever it is, in order to show your respect to other races. And if someone feels the opposite, it is a problem in itself (see e.g. [0] for more discussion) and is causing other problems. By the way, we are already smart to know that the discussion at that level has been influenced by Russian efforts to conquer by division[1] - and they know where the vulnerabilities are.
As for the contradiction, the USA has a history that is very much unique and not shared with other countries, and the painful consequences are still very much alive. You would need to see the reactions of people in, say, Asia, when you tell them they have to replace master/slave and blacklist with other terms. They basically do it out of politeness but they do not see the need for that.
[0] https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/featu...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia_and_Black_Lives_Matter
Oh then we've been on the same page from the beginning :)
The last time this happened it went very badly. I can’t imagine white identity as a political issue leading to anything good.