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A home made PCB stepper motor

kevinlynagh.com

271 points by nvalis 4 years ago · 69 comments

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jcims 4 years ago

My eyes weren't cooperating with the illustration from the Theory section, animated it here (author is free to use of course) - https://imgur.com/a/hVYWBB2

(note that i reverse a few frames in the loop to be less jarring visually, the current is probably not correct when the puck is moving left)

  • a9h74j 4 years ago

    Helpful. Another thing to notice: You don't necessarily need a pcb. For small demo purposes you could close-pack one layer of serpentine insulated wire, then a second layer of a second serpetine wire. There would be a height difference, but perhaps not more than with a two-layer pcb.

  • nvusuvu 4 years ago

    Incredibly helpful to conceptualize what is going on. Thanks!

cushychicken 4 years ago

This is incredibly cool. The research video showing the little "robots" placing drops of glue to assemble carbon fibers is AWESOME! I haven't been this excited by an internet video in months.

My immediate thought: how could this be used to make a really cheap desktop pick-and-place system?

  • gww 4 years ago

    There's a YouTuber named Stephen Hawes[1] whose made his own pick and place machine.

    [1] https://youtu.be/6Sa9jNhaRbg

    • cushychicken 4 years ago

      Yeah, but Index prices out at like $500 plus labor to put it together.

      This has the potential for:

      * way less material cost

      * way less assembly, and

      * way higher reliability due to fewer moving parts

      • jacquesm 4 years ago

        And potentially higher repeat accuracy because you don't have the rotational joints to deal with. Those are pretty lousy when you get further out from the axis of rotation.

  • jacquesm 4 years ago

    Get it to make more little robots!

    Even smaller ones...

    • kragen 4 years ago

      Magnetic drive is poor below the micron scale, but you could switch to electrostatic. No equivalent of diamagnetism to draw on tho.

  • bsder 4 years ago

    > My immediate thought: how could this be used to make a really cheap desktop pick-and-place system?

    The limitations of homebrew pick-and-place are the vision system, not the control system.

    If you solved the vision system problems, you could probably build a pick-and-place out of Legos.

  • nynx 4 years ago

    There’d have to be some way to temporary bond components to the bots. Regular pick n’ place machines use suction.

    • cushychicken 4 years ago

      I imagine having two little microbots working like tweezers. Theoretically, it's possible to manipulate the field to make one of the robots rotate. Two magnets rotating in tandem could make something like a tiny pair of tweezers.

      • amelius 4 years ago

        The problem: there is solderpaste on the board before placement. Therefore, you have to bring the components to the board from above and push them into the solder paste. The suction based pick and place machines are well suited for this task. Tiny robots walking over the board (with lots of obstructions such as solder-paste and through holes) are not such a good match.

        • ncmncm 4 years ago

          Suspend the board upside-down above the robots. They just need to smoosh parts on from below.

          I.e., not practical, but fun to think about.

        • nynx 4 years ago

          Actually, I bet this would be possible if the bots had a tiny magnetically actuated suction piston. You’d have to figure out how to create electromagnetic force in the z-direction independently from the x-y force though. Not sure if that’s possible.

          Heavy components could be held by multiple bots.

        • cushychicken 4 years ago

          Why couldn't the bots apply the paste as well?

          I think of this being a tiny version of a home SMT assembly where you're dispensing paste and placing components manually, one at a time.

          I also suspect that you can have the target PCB separate from the one the magnets move on.

      • jacquesm 4 years ago

        Or have them be asymmetrical, one has the half-tweezer at the left side the frame, the other at the right.

    • jacquesm 4 years ago

      Put the whole thing in the dark, small solar cells on top and then short circuit them through a coil, that could power a tiny gripper whenever they are lit up.

  • goodpoint 4 years ago

    > pick-and-place system

    Most likely not, but bio/chemical experiments yes.

hwillis 4 years ago

Pedantic: this isn't a stepping motor, it's just a plain linear motor.

Stepper motors have multiple teeth per pole: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepper_motor#/media/File:Step...

The rotor has slightly fewer teeth than the stator, such that one "electrical rotation" (each coil being switched on in sequence) causes the rotor to advance by the number of missing teeth. That is what makes a stepper so precise; it gets 4+ divisions per tooth.

  • jacquesm 4 years ago

    Equally pedantic: it functions as a linear stepper motor, therefore it is a stepper motor. That it doesn't have a platen is not relevant. Being a stepper is not a statement of precision, it is a matter of principle, does the movement occur in discrete steps or does it occur by continuous movement through a magnetic field? This is a stepper by any practical definition.

    • hwillis 4 years ago

      > it is a matter of principle, does the movement occur in discrete steps or does it occur by continuous movement through a magnetic field?

      motor typology is not well defined, so we're arguing a moot point. That said, I think this is a poor criterion for stepping. BLDCs, SRMs, and doubly-wound machines are all steppers by this definition. IMO it is not useful.

      All motors which are called stepper motors have one unique thing in common: they take multiple electrical rotations per mechanical rotation. This motor does not do that.

    • amelius 4 years ago

      You could make it move continuously by using an infinite number of microsteps.

  • marcosdumay 4 years ago

    If you can lock the movement into a specific position and it's repeatable because of the geometry of the motor, it's a stepper.

    Yeah, of course it doesn't have the same design of the steppers you buy around. That's obvious from the title alone. That doesn't make it not a stepper. And yeah, it's less precise than the ones you can buy¹. That should be expected too.

    1 - Although, that conclusion is way too simplistic to make. It has a different kind of imprecision, so depending on how you compare, you may as well conclude that it's more precise.

    • hwillis 4 years ago

      > If you can lock the movement into a specific position and it's repeatable because of the geometry of the motor, it's a stepper.

      BLDC, series wound, and switched reluctance motors will also hold their position. Cogging torque exists in the majority of motor types. It is not very useful for dividing motors into families, and is certainly not specific to the group of machines called stepper motors.

      If you energize each coil of a BLDC, series wound, or SR motor (not the wires, each actual coil) in sequence, the shaft of the motor will rotate once (or very close to once). If you do the same with a stepper motor, the shaft will have turned 22.5 degrees or less.

      It is possible to make a linear stepping motor. The Vernier scale is basically stepping as applied to measurement. This is not that.

  • jhallenworld 4 years ago

    More pedantry: it's a PM (permanent magnet) stepper motor, whereas I think most common stepper motors are hybrid VR (variable reluctance) / PM type..

lqet 4 years ago

This strongly reminds me of the ongoing efforts at the Miniatur Wunderland in Hamburg [0] (a very large model railway) to implement a model Formula 1 race track on which tiny race cars can move completely freely [1].

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miniatur_Wunderland

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPUEOhMBpUw

jcims 4 years ago

Very cool. Might make for a fun chess board or model train/model city layout.

Edit: Glad he mentioned Carl Bugeja's youtube channel, this instantly brought Carl's work to mind.

  • nvalisOP 4 years ago

    The model city application is indeed currently developed [0] at the Miniaturwunderland [1] in Hamburg, Germany.

    [0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPUEOhMBpUw (in German)

    [1] https://www.miniatur-wunderland.com/

    • jacquesm 4 years ago

      That first video is amazing, what a dedication. And they got it working in the end. Super impressive.

  • amelius 4 years ago

    How many robots can you move independently though (all moving in different directions or staying in place)?

    • jcims 4 years ago

      Seems like any magnets on the same coil will move in the same direction. So it boils down to how well you can isolate the coils and/or orchestrate their motion so they aren't sharing a coil when you don't want them to be.

      I wonder if you could use induced currents in the pucks instead of permanent magnets to create the opposing force. Then you could tune the PCB coil to target specific elements. So 212kHz moves puck A, 241kHz moves puck B, etc

      • jacquesm 4 years ago

        Once you get rid of the permanent magnets though you'd need to power the pucks somehow. With permanent magnets you don't need any kind of active element on the pucks for movement alone.

        • amelius 4 years ago

          You could let the pucks make contact with the PCB, and power them like that. If the pucks are pulled towards the PCB, then it is easy to let them make contact.

          • jacquesm 4 years ago

            That would cause the whole thing to wear out in no time. I don't think any contact scheme would work for this kind of application you'd get all of the headaches of motors with brushes but on a tiny scale. Spark erosion would destroy the traces. Part of the elegance of this design is that it is non-contact.

            • amelius 4 years ago

              You could power inductively, perhaps. So create a fluctuating magnetic field to deliver power to a coil (which is on the puck), then let a microprocessor on the puck control the flow of current to different coils (also on the puck) which are then pulled towards permanent magnets in the PCB.

              • jacquesm 4 years ago

                Hm. You got me thinking about this: another layer below that can send a 'charge' pulse to a coil on the puck to charge a super cap. Bonus points if you can turn that into a levitation mechanism.

                • jcims 4 years ago

                  This is along the lines of what I was thinking initially but more by reacting to the instantaneous current induced in the coil rather than a charge/discharge action.

                  Basically a small version of the ring launcher - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V690VphqTwg

                  Where the ring launcher works by counter emf that evolves in the conductor, a tuned emf (like for RFID chips) could be made with specific properties. Eg. it might only respond to certain frequency bands and possibly (?) allow for both repulsive and attractive forces by either maintaining or inverting the exciter phase in the board.

                  • jacquesm 4 years ago

                    I'm absolutely itching to give this a shot but I really should be concentrating on other things right now.

                  • amelius 4 years ago

                    You could let a microcontroller on the puck control the allowed currents. If you do this sufficiently fast, you can multiplex over different pucks on the board.

                    Creating a tuned oscillator could be interesting too, but could also turn out to be too heavy, in terms of component weight.

                • _Microft 4 years ago

                  Have through hole vias everywhere and turn your PCB into the surface of a tiny airhockey table?

                  • jacquesm 4 years ago

                    Neat! Not too much pressure though or you'll be peeling your robots off the ceiling :)

        • scotty79 4 years ago

          You could power the pucks through induction.

    • prox 4 years ago

      Would you need to if they can move at 36cm/s ?

phkahler 4 years ago

I have wanted to do exactly this concept controlled via RPi with voice recognition to make a real ouija board. I only mention it because I will realistically never get around to it myself.

jacquesm 4 years ago

Wow, actual innovation. Amazing stuff. And that video is from 2014!

amelius 4 years ago

Different principle, but it reminds me of OpenDrop:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSls9L_h3Q0

amelius 4 years ago

It also reminds me of:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k7zywli4Vg

tommiegannert 4 years ago

> Next steps: Levitation / sliding enhancements

I wonder if vibration would help reducing friction. I.e. superimposing a low-power high-frequency component in the field to avoid static friction.

agumonkey 4 years ago

Man magnetic fields are so fun to experiment with. These, or magnetic locks, so "magical"

  • jacquesm 4 years ago

    If you have a bunch of magnets lying around have a look at Halbach arrays.

    • buescher 4 years ago

      Wow; I knew something like this was possible since we've all held refrigerator magnets and such that obviously had oddly arranged fields, but I only had the vaguest idea. Thank you.

      • jacquesm 4 years ago

        Halbach arrays and some correction coils can be used to make a passive magnetic bearing (long sought after holy grail). They are super interesting.

    • agumonkey 4 years ago

      I've seen that a few years ago, for denser motors. Do they have any other use ?

      Thanks for the suggestion nonetheless

      • jacquesm 4 years ago

        Levitation through forward motion, passive magnetic bearings, what's not to like?

convolvatron 4 years ago

the Sri demo shows 2d motion. pcbs make it pretty straightforward to have an X and a Y array, but for some reason it doesn't seem to me like you can just easily drive both axes independently. could you really tune a 'step' to be on an arbitrary slope?

  • jacquesm 4 years ago

    I'd say that depends more on how much you are willing expend on hardware to drive it. You could slice your coils into tiny segments (essentially: just the tops) and then use the back of the PCB to drive them. They'd be magnetic pixels. Maxels?

  • HeyLaughingBoy 4 years ago

    If you move X,Y separately but with a small enough step, it would be virtually indistinguishable from moving along the slope.

  • klyrs 4 years ago

    With 4 layers, it would be a trivial extension to drive a y axis

genmud 4 years ago

Electromagnets are cool.

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