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Banning Airbnb considered as housing crisis bites in coastal towns

abc.net.au

42 points by yogi123 4 years ago · 36 comments

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jseliger 4 years ago

Towns will consider absolutely anything to lower costs except building new housing: https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/i-will-do-anything-to-en....

Sadly, we're at the stage of this "crisis" where parody is the only appropriate response.

eddiewithzato 4 years ago

Hope they ban investment properties for residential addresses. Investment properties should really only be for business buildings.

  • anamax 4 years ago

    What definition of "investment properties" are you using?

    Does someone who rents two houses count as "investment properties"? How about someone who owns a complex with 50 units? How about a corporation that owns a complex with 500 units?

    • Arainach 4 years ago

      A residence which is both:

      1) Occupied at least a certain portion (let's say 10%) of the year

      2) Occupied by the owner at least twice as often as occupied by non-owners

      Can be considered a personal residence in my book. Anything not meeting this is an investment property.

      • anamax 4 years ago

        Under that definition, almost all rental residences in the US are investment property, and thus would be banned under the proposal.

        Consider a friend of mine who owns two houses. If he lives in one, the other will be "investment property" if he rents it a significant fraction of the year and thus banned. He can't move back and forth to avoid that because there are only 12 months in the year and it takes at least 8 months (per house) to satisfy the "twice as often" requirement.

        The only way out is for him to leave the second house vacant the vast majority of the year. That pretty much defeats the purpose of owning a rental and it means that someone who'd want to rent is out of luck.

        • Arainach 4 years ago

          What is a rental property if not an investment property? You are renting with the explicit goal of getting more returns (rent/equity/appreciation) than your costs.

          Owning property for the purpose of renting it has serious negative effects on communities and society. Communities thrive when people live in them and value them, not when random people come for a few days, abuse the commons, and leave for somewhere else. If not banned, I'm all in favor of heavy regulation and taxation of investment properties, with a maximum number allocated as a percentage of the available housing. If renting becomes unpopular, people will actually have to sell and free up inventory, dropping prices.

          • anamax 4 years ago

            I appreciate that you're honest about wanting to ban renting residences.

            That said, I see renting as a good option for many people.

            For example, I didn't have the money to buy after college so I rented.

            Even if I could have bought, I probably wouldn't have because I was reasonably sure that I wanted to move in a year or two.

            If there weren't rentals, what should I have done?

            • totony 4 years ago

              >For example, I didn't have the money to buy after college so I rented.

              I think that's the main issue. One of the reasons housing is so expensive is because it's an avenue for investment/infinite growth. Maybe if you didn't have to outbid people that think houses are invesment you could have bought a house/afforded a mortage.

              Land scarcity/livable land is the thing that makes housing expensive. Allowing people to use that to make profit is unethical.

            • Arainach 4 years ago

              Apartments are perfectly fine and should be encouraged, as they're dense and serve an important purpose.

              That's not what's happening with AirBnB. That's turning the limiter supply of ownable property (condos and houses) into short term rentals for the owner's profit at the community's expense.

              Also, I never said that outright banning is the proper option. Heavy taxation on strictly limited rental options (liter to a level where the community is still able to thrive) is also reasonable.

              • stouset 4 years ago

                Yes, we understand that AirBNB is having negative effects on communities. Perhaps something should be done. But banning “investment properties” in a way that de facto bans rental units is not only a nonstarter but also a terrible idea in general.

                • Arainach 4 years ago

                  Why?

                  I'm not saying rich people can't have their second place on the lake or that companies aren't free to build apartment complexes. What benefit to society does allowing businesses and landlords to own portfolios of single family homes and rent them out offer?

                  • disgruntledphd2 4 years ago

                    Who will rent houses to people who can't afford homes?

                    • matt74827289 4 years ago

                      People can't afford homes because investors are buying them all at high price to turn around and rent them out.

                      • anamax 4 years ago

                        And they either rent them at a high price or they lose money.

                        Like I wrote above, a friend of mine owns two houses. Under the proposed "no investment residences" rule, he can't, unless he leaves one of them vacant almost all of the year.

                        For some people, renting is the right thing. It's unclear how banning rental properties makes their life better.

                        • totony 4 years ago

                          Does your friend need a second property? If there was such a ban someone else could buy it that would have stayed in it/rented it anyway

                          • stouset 4 years ago

                            How exactly do you think somebody else could have rented that property if somebody wasn't allowed to purchase it for the purpose of renting it out?

                            • totony 4 years ago

                              You misread what I said. The person would have bought it instead of having to rent it from your friend

                              • anamax 4 years ago

                                Many people who rent do so because renting is better for them than buying.

                      • stouset 4 years ago

                        Some people can't afford homes because investors are buying them. There is zero reason to believe that prohibiting investment properties would allow everyone to afford a home.

                        • totony 4 years ago

                          Just like not everyone can afford a rent. The point is to make things better not to fix homelessness.

                          • stouset 4 years ago

                            And you genuinely think that reducing the number of available rental units would make things better for the overwhelming majority of people who currently can't afford to purchase a home outright?

                            • totony 4 years ago

                              Reducing the number of available rental units this way would increase the amount of dwellings available to purchase (and reduce prices). Do you think rental is the only way one can have a dwelling?

                              • anamax 4 years ago

                                > Do you think rental is the only way one can have a dwelling?

                                That's rich coming from someone who thinks that owning should be the only way to have a dwelling.

                                No, I don't think that renting is the only way to have a dwelling.

                                However, I do think that renting is a better option than owning for many people.

                                Moreover, I don't think that telling people how they should and shouldn't have dwellings is good.

                    • anamax 4 years ago

                      The only legal rentals under the proposed rule is as room mates.

              • anamax 4 years ago

                As I pointed out, your "residences can't be investment properties" rule bans apartment houses.

                If you intended to talk only about very short-term rentals, you should have made that clear a couple of messages ago.

    • jamil7 4 years ago

      I thought the definition was fairly clear and agreed upon?

      • anamax 4 years ago

        It's curious that you imply that "everyone agrees" on the relevant definition but you didn't classify my examples according to that definition or say that investment or not depends on other things.

        Of course, my examples are intended to show that there is no "clear and agreed upon" definition.

throw_m239339 4 years ago

I just want to say, I live in a country where there are laws for and against almost everything, where most Airbnb listings are basically illegal, yet the city I live in is one of the top Airbnb destination.

What I mean, is that laws are useless if there is no means to for them to be seriously enforced, which is the case where I live.

On the other hand, if I were to create my own Airbnb website in that same country, I'd be shut down by the end of the week and put in jail facilitating illegal renting listings, while Airbnb executives risk absolutely nothing since they live in USA.

  • atatatat 4 years ago

    Why be upset? Instead, make a service breaking laws elsewhere but not your home jurisdiction.

mensetmanusman 4 years ago

I wonder if America will ever build new cities.

anamax 4 years ago

Monterey CA (USA) bans all rentals of less than a month except for legal hotels.

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