Peloton's $3k treadmill now comes with surprise 'subscription fee'
bleepingcomputer.com'The company has cited "safety and well-being" as a reason for introducing the membership fee.'
I've noticed the "fake because" lately seems to be getting more and more brazen from corporations.
This is about the third or fourth "for your safety and convenience we're helping ourselves to more of your money" I've seen in the last couple months, and unfortunately all the other ones I've seen are for products or services I actually have.
But I for one am just grateful that we have so many companies and governments willing to take more of our money, spend less of theirs, extend wait times, reduce services, and just generally do less for more money for our safety and convenience. Imagine how unsafe we'd be if they weren't taking so much money and actually provided service. What a bloodbath it would be.
The supermarket network I usually shop at lets one chose 5 product categories (out of about 30 or so) that they will get cashback from. Recently, they've decided to split categories "Tea, Coffee, Cocoa" and "Fruits & vegetables" into two new categories each: "Tea", "Coffee & Cocoa", "Fruits", and "Vegetables", — with the stated reason "to improve your shopping experience". No idea how that would improve my shopping experience, but hey, they probably know better than I do, right?
Which category are tomatoes in?
The US Supreme Court has some thoughts they'd like to share with you...
Probably Vegetables like all other Fruits that are Vegetables...
People always bring up tomatoes. Where's the love for cucumbers, squash, eggplants and peppers?!
And don't even get me started on berries!
Fun fact, eggplants and tomatoes are berries, raspberries and blackberries are not.
Cucumbers: Also berries!
BAH!
and bananas!
Safety is a modern day god. Corporations are invoking its name to justify whatever they want the same way a medieval lord would invoke god in their justification for sending a dozen dudes to beat someone up.
"For your safety you need to swipe your credit card before your riding lawnmower will go into reverse."
edit: 'the' vs 'a', modern society's worship of abstract concepts is more akin to ancient polytheistic societies than medieval Christianity.
>Safety is the modern day god.
Modern day?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salus
Fun fact: the words "Salus" and "safety" are, in fact, cognate!
Running with a heavy wallet is dangerous. You're more likely to lose your balance and any fall would be that much worse due to the added weight. Peloton is helpfully making your wallet lighter to ensure a safe running experience.
Seriously though: if something doesn't really need it, any form of Internet-enabling is something I see as an anti-feature and now avoid at all costs. Internet enabled features or apps means "it spies on you, will change or break needlessly due to an update, or will find a way to extract rent." I will pay more for something without Wifi or (worse) a fucking cellular modem.
I'm worried about the ability to buy a non-Internet-enabled car though. I have a 2013 Nissan Leaf and am looking into upgrading its battery. The car is otherwise absolutely perfect. It just needs more range per charge.
Network enabled hardware is a plague. I am a senior embedded engineer doing consulting for companies around the world. It’s all utter crap, and no one should trust any of it. Ever. I am not exaggerating or joking in the slightest.
I will never buy appliances, cars, tools, vacuum cleaners, or any other device with any kind of networking functionality. This feature will be used in the future to lock you out of your own hardware, spy on you, serve as a vector for attacks, to restrict its functionality, and to steal that which you have already paid to own. Not if, when.
I drive an ‘83 Toyota pickup, and I will never give it up. Modern cars are trash on multiple levels.
Tesla would like to have a word with you. They are upgrading driving ML models on the fly and users seem to like it so far (anecdotal).
There is a pretty funny social psychology study [1] where someone asks to cut in line to use the copy machine at a library. If they request to cut in line, 61% of the time, the request is accepted. If they make the same request, but add "because I'm in a rush", the request is accepted 94% of the time. If they make the same request but instead say "because I have to make some copies", the request is accepted 93% of the time.
For some reason, the "fake because", even if it is nonsensical is an effective psychological hack.
They do it because it works. There are more than enough idiots out there who will nod and keep giving them money to make up for those that won't.
"Vote with your wallet" doesn't work, because too much of the population are lemmings.
Voting with your wallet also doesn't work in an economy where companies are either backed by VCs or can borrow at near-zero interest rates. Companies like WeWork and Uber can lose billions per quarter by undercutting competitors, yet stay afloat because of the SV money hose.
It doesn't work with a captive audience, either. People are going to pay rather than have their machine bricked.
It’s funny how much people believe corporate BS and will defend the company citing their stated reasoning. I used to think it’s astroturf, but it’s too pervasive.
For example, LLBean and REI recently revoked their lifetime warranty referencing “customer abuse” and on web forums people defend the companies. Like somehow after many decades, customer abuse skyrocketed. And there’s no data, of course. And the change went from lifetime to 1-2 years. And it makes them tons more money.
It seems people are less skeptical of corporate blargh.
> governments willing to take more of our money, spend less of theirs
One way to fix this is to vote for people who believe everyone (including corporations) should pay their fair share of taxes, rather than just the middle class, aka the overtaxed 90%.
Since Peloton has sold subscriptions from day 1, this probably shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.
The worst part of this story is that the device killed a child and they're using that as the reason to collect monthly ransom. It sounds like a Sopranos episode: Make your monthly payments or we might hurt your kid.
Yeah, that's pretty fucked up. Peloton provided a comment but didn't indicate why the TreadLock code couldn't be provided without the subscription, obviously because there is no defensible technical reason they couldn't do so.
It’s a surprise because you cannot retroactively change the terms of a purchase. This is probably illegal, and while Peloton is probably relying on their voluntary recall to mitigate this risk (“look, you can just get your money back”) that probably does not solve it. Even with free returns they are attempting to unilaterally change the terms of the purchase to their own benefit, and for no benefit to the consumer.
Honestly I look forward to seeing the lawsuits that come out of it, to remind companies that contract law does apply to them.
Am i missing something, if a treadmill has a subscription, the kid can still run on it right?, is it some kind of fingerprint or face authentication that would stop a kid from running.
If you have a subscription, you can set a password.
I mean, they gotta be able to make a free account SKU though that has nothing but "Just Run" enabled.
On the flip side, I wonder who bought a Peloton treadmill and didn't intend on getting the subscription service. Not that it makes it right, but I imagine most people already pay for it and the number of affected users is quite low.
"Intend on" when they bought it, sure. Wouldn't be surprised if quite a few people found they don't actually want to stick with the subscription - although then admittedly returning it and getting something else sounds like a good deal, even if it's hassle.
The subscriptiion allows you to set a pin
This is the trend of supporting companies like this .... I don't support cartels where possible. I haven't supported amazon for years...that's the price. People need to care. stop asking for someone to do something unless it's stop paying...that's the solution.
> "In our ongoing work to ensure our products are even safer ... we released Tread Lock, a four-digit passcode to secure Tread+ against unauthorized access. Unfortunately, Tread Lock is not yet available without a Peloton Membership..."
This is ludicrous. I'm intrigued why it is so difficult to add a 4 digit passcode to a device that regularly receives software updates. It seems that bricking the device was an easier fix than a bit of coding.
One of the benefits of IOT is the ability to provide regular updates & "improvements", however the first benefit of IOT is to earn as much money as possible for the suppliers and that typically steers product decisions.
> I'm intrigued why it is so difficult to add a 4 digit passcode to a device that regularly receives software updates.
It probably is not, but that was a great excuse to make users pay for non-trivial features instead of just advanced.
This seems like a "pout" move... get blasted with a class-action, so blast everyone in the face with this 'safety and goodness' fee.
No other solution to keeping toddlers off of a treadmill with a giant touch screen?
Maybe a simple math question or 'confirm your birthday'?
No no... gotta cash-grab to pay for the lawsuit.
Classy.
It reminds me of Google charging 12.99 a month for the ability to darken the screen in YouTube.
Sounds like a horrible comparison. YT Premium has many more features than that and wasn't made to recoup money lost due to an expensive recall.
Feds pressured Peloton to "voluntarily" recall their device so now they're making up the difference by jacking up the subscription fees.
Do they charge $12.99 a month for this feature? I can’t find it
This feature is part of the YouTube Red subscription. Which doesn't really add that much in addition, aside from partial ad removal and video downloads, all completely free on PC.
It adds more support (10x to 20x) for the content creators than ads, with the bonus of not watching ads.
For some people, this is quite valuable.
As a side note, the video downloading is made available in the mobile app as well.
I could also invest those monthly bucks in some Patreon subscriptions to my favorite channels, which gets them drastically more and makes them less dependent on YouTube. It would even let me set the precise amount and distribution. And not pay a shady ad company on top.
I'm doing my part to shill the free (but sideloaded) Youtube Vanced app for Android - sadly not available for iPhones.
Gives you all the features of YouTube Red - including the ones that were available BEFORE Google silently removed them to put them behind a paywall, like background play!
Also includes experimental features to use crowdsourced data on where ads are in videos and automatically skips them if desired.
I'm a fan of Newpipe, as it's available in F-Droid.
I just downloaded it and it's WORKING!
You have no idea how much of a positive impact this exchange has had on my summer! Thank you, stranger! :D
Newpipe hasn't worked for me for the last 8 months... Are you saying that its functional again??!?
Oh my goodness!
I believe by "darken" they mean the ability to turn off the screen while watching a video, or more likely, listening to music.
I'm not OP, but for me, on YouTube I literally mean 'darken'. Similar to a dark mode on desktop. Whereby the comments area and backgrounds get dark, but without the video going to fullscreen.
They paywall random features behind youtube premium, I guess that's another one.
Engineers hate these things because they know the relative minimal efforts required, and that the line of free vs premium feature is completely arbitrary.
It's market segmentation AND lack of ads. Lack of ads + slightly nicer experience.
its part of youtube premium
In Google photos in Android there is a "Dynamic" button for enhancing photos but its under a Google One paywall.
I mean the entire business model of the company seems to be to depart rich people from their money in obscene ways, so that move does not seem unexpected.
I generally do not understand the thought process of buying a tablet glued to a treadmill for three thousand dollars. That's like what, a decade of gym membership
These are competing with fitness studios like Soul Cycle- which charges $40+ a class after shoe rental and water. The bike is more like $2000 at least for the standard bike, not $3000.
My wife bought one in November 2019, and both joined the "century club" (100 rides) by the middle of 2020 and she takes the Yoga classes as well and I have done a few strength classes- its not just about the bike. We had never previously had a gym membership, though I would use the one in my previous apartment building, and my wife was into both Yoga classes and Soul Cycle.
I hate group fitness and cycle studios, and am currently on a 65+ week streak on Peloton. The value is there for me, and even outside the pandemic, my wife hasn't stepped foot in a cycle studio since it was delivered.
>I hate group fitness and cycle studios, and am currently on a 65+ week streak on Peloton. The value is there for me,
I understand the value proposition of an internet-connected "virtual class" for motivation, competitive pacing, social gaming, etc but my limited research showed that one can get these benefits with just the Peloton app[1] (the software) without buying the hardware (Peloton branded bike/treadmill).
The big disadvantage with the whole Peloton hardware+software integrated package is them changing the Terms of Service on the customer at any time to raise prices. (E.g. this thread's topic of abruptly removing treadmill's "Just Run" $0 cost option.)
Is the DIY option with your own bike/treadmill with an iPad running the Peloton app too awkward that it makes the integrated Peloton the better value? Or are buyers simply not aware of the options?
I think its about the build quality, the service, the instructors, and the integration. I mean maybe you can get a separate bike with a resistance knob that matches peloton's numbers, and track your workouts with an Apple watch, Fitbit, or something similar, then rig up a tablet to follow along with the instructor, but that's a lot of hassle and while maybe you already have the tablet and fitness tracker, if you bought them specifically you aren't too far off from the price of a bike. I am not sure if you could get the competitive aspect of getting a real time update on the leaderboard as well- which while isn't strictly necessary, it does motivate me at least a bit, and watching it keeps me from getting bored.
I don't know how widely spread this is, but even before the pandemic my company had a gym benefit and it can be applied to Peloton. I didn't know that going in though, I just had a discussion with a coworker after we got it where they told me that.
And yeah, when I was in my younger years when I had more time than money, I might have cobbled together some solution like you are suggesting, but these days, I can pay for the nicely integrated solution that I don't have to debug or worry about.
Using your own bike with the Peloton class never appealed to me as you don't get your power numbers, so there is no competing with others in the room.
I hear the Wahoo Kikr is great for cyclists: https://www.wahoofitness.com/devices/bike-trainers/kickr/buy
I have the kickr and it is the best thing for a competitive cyclist IMO. As someone who regularly rides outside though, I hate riding indoors, even on a good setup. I know some people who don't mind or love it, but to me it's really anti-fun and makes me dread the workout instead of look forward to it like an outdoor ride.
I use the Peloton app with my Keiser M3i. I bought the Keiser because I believe it to be a better product. I also didn't want to be bound to both Peloton hardware and software. I had the Keiser for years prior to subscribing to Peloton. I just made up my own workouts. Ultimately, it's easier to just pick a class and do whatever the instructor tells me to. Overall, I'm happy with the decision. I can be a competitive person so I miss the leaderboard stuff at times but not enough to regret my choice.
In practice, it took me a few workouts to translate the resistant callouts from the Peloton to the Keiser. Also, some instructors are better than others about repeatedly calling out cadence and resistance. You can get lost in the workout if the instructor doesn't call them out enough.
In terms of just using the app and not the bike: The bike hardware is very good. Peloton claims to only break even on it and I can believe that - it’s an extremely sturdy bike.
It's not 2 grand good. It's similar to bikes that cost $1K or less. There is no way they're only breaking even on the bikes unless their supply chain is complete garbage.
Can you share a sub-1k bike that is just as well built?
The article you are responding to : Peloton's $3k treadmill now comes with surprise 'subscription fee'
You: "The bike is more like $2000 at least for the standard bike, not $3000."
Did you not read that this is not about the bike, but the treadmill?
The Soul Cycle (and copycats) business model boggles my mind.
I can even understand people paying $200+/month for an Equinox gym. At least it's unlimited use.
But paying $35+ for a single one hour spinning class?
For my wife, it was partly a social thing- her friends did it, and she is in sales and this actually became a popular thing to take clients to. She had expensed over $10K in classes her peak year. She became friends with some of the people that worked at her favored studio, and even some of the instructors (which appears to have been not unique to my wife but cultivated by corporate culture: https://www.vox.com/the-goods/22195549/soulcycle-decline-reo... It was a Thing, and in NYC once something is a Thing, it becomes unstoppable and takes on a life of its own.
Its not even a full hour, the standard class is 45 minutes IIRC.
But paying $35+ for a single one hour spinning class?
Pricing like this happens when there are enough people that can afford it without thinking about it, and they don't want to be surrounded by people who can not afford it.
It's a smaller scale version of a town with very high taxes, and no extra benefits for those taxes.
I did crossfit for about 8 years and then switched to Orange Theory when my Xfit gym started to become overrun with bruhs, chads, and qanonfitters. I quit OT after the COVID, but was going to because it was become increasingly loud and hyper-cheery. Which is a bummer, because I really like working out with a group of people way more than alone, especially when we are all like: ok, we gotta finish this even if it sucks. I don't see how this can be captured digitally, but maybe I am too old (which I think is become a real thing, the digital gap as GenX starts to not understand the new relationship with tech... not saying you are young just hypothesizing...)
The treadmill costs $2,495 and the upgraded version is $4,295.
I generally agree. But owners would argue that a $3k treadmill that's used consistently is a much better value than a $500 treadmill that's used only its first month of ownership.
I'd add their are things that are much more expensive people spend money on that are much less likely to result in happiness. Buying a fast-depreciating Mercedes or BMW for example.
It's just important that people figure out what makes them happy, and what they're buying.
I have no issue spending $60k+ on a car because I like to drive and a nice car makes me happy every time I get in. There is no way I'd buy a Peloton though: I absolutely hate all fitness classes. I'd rather spend $3k on dumb equipment than $1k on "smart" equipment with classes.
It targets a similar customer to that obscenely expensive juice squeezer thing.
I'm noticing more and more a trend for people to spend seemingly large amounts of money on completely pointless things. Out of curiosity I checked how much people are spending on custom number plates for their cars in the UK. They are regularly going for tens of thousands of pounds. For a few numbers that other people get to see on their cars.
My theory is, despite the nominal amounts being very high, the opportunity cost to the buyers is very low, but it's not because they are "rich". There is such a huge gulf between being "well off" and being "rich" that it's quite easy for many people to save up a spare ten thousand and just not have anything better to spend it on. To make serious life changes, like a new house, you need hundreds of thousands to millions. Suddenly that ten thousand is a drop in the ocean. Faced with not a chance of ever reaching "rich", people remain "well off" and spend these paradoxically large but tiny amounts of money on pointless things.
I'm shocked at the number of non-rich friends who have bought or seriously considered a Peloton. I know buying a good exercise bike, monitor (which they may already have), and a subscription to some cycling class service or box set isnt a sexy solution but damn is it so much cheaper.
I honestly cant believe how strong the marketing of Peloton is. It's the iPhone of exercise equipment.
> It's the iPhone of exercise equipment.
It really is.
> I know buying a good exercise bike, monitor (which they may already have), and a subscription to some cycling class service or box set isnt a sexy solution but damn is it so much cheaper.
circa 2007 you could say a similar thing about the iPhone
> seems to be to depart rich people from their money in obscene ways
This nails it. The startup tech boom has a large contingent of, "how can we take a cheap device, cloud-it-up, add some design, and sell it at 20x the price to the bougie?" I literally stay awake at night trying to think of something I can modify and sell to rich people.
And by "rich" people, I mean people in the 10% and above income brackets, or people that will go into debt to have the latest gadget.
Examples:
- Car-rooftop tents
- Fancy blenders
- Super-expensive coolers
- Deluxe earphones
- Deluxe vacuum cleaners
- Deluxe portable fans
- Deluxe juice machines
- Deluxe "man kits" (yes, its a thing: https://www.mancrates.com/, https://manlymanco.com)
...
I am racking my brains to come up with the next fancy thing...
> I generally do not understand the thought process of buying a tablet glued to a treadmill for three thousand dollars. That's like what, a decade of gym membership
Do you not understand why they would rather buy a treadmill than train at the gym, or why they don't buy a cheaper treadmill?
I don't understand why they wouldn't buy a different expensive treadmill if they don't want the classes
Corporations love the steady revenue of the subscription model. Look at Blackrock buying up all the housing and renting it out.
The idea being that people won’t own anything except (maybe) their clothes.
Well, certainly a lot less trouble for the kids when you kick off.
Not actually owning anything is part of it, but the whole autopay push is a little more basic than that--it's eliminating the conscious decision to buy and turning customers into a passive income stream. My phone bill is significantly cheaper if I let it get autobilled to my debit card instead of actually paying it every month. Heating/cooling companies in my area push a monthly subscription that includes annual furnace inspections for the same price as the inspections themselves. Both of those are genuinely services, and not things I would have otherwise owned.
I don’t expect that trend to reverse itself given it benefits the people who have the most say in our politics.
I’m just waiting for them to go ahead and implement a privatized social credit score too at this point.
Credit scores are already privatized so why not? Citizen and Palantir could get in on it with Equifax. They'd just need to incentivize others to do the reporting of good/bad social actions.
Plus social media & potentially even ISPs looking to sell user data, I wouldn’t be surprised if every aspect of your online life is fed into a system like this. And simply hiding your traffic won’t be good enough because not using these things would be considered abnormal — not having active (and well behaved) social media presence could be a big detriment to a score like this. Something that employers are likely to look at too.
On the one hand I appreciate the stuff a company like Apple does around privacy, but on the other they comply with whatever laws are in place in a given country. So we have to hope the state of our democracy improves because effectively becoming a one-party state changes the game — then we actually have to worry the government will encourage or mandate dystopian systems like this. Good actors in the private sector won’t be good enough to mitigate if that happens.
Somewhat related I also wouldn’t be surprised if within the next couple of decades all driving related data is being monitored and aggregated, so that could also be used to build sort of a social / behavioral profile on someone and not just feed into self driving AIs and insurance data
Already happening but is at least opt-in for now:
https://www.intact.ca/en/personal-insurance/home/group/mydri...
Well right now it’s relatively crude and opt-in via your insurance but at some point I expect much more detailed telemetry from (internet connected) vehicles by default
> Corporations love the steady revenue of the subscription model.
Non corporations love it too.
Investors are starting to value companies exclusively off recurring revenue. Non-subscription revenue is not even counted.
If your company has $100000/month in MRR but manages to make $100M in a year, it's a $1.2M/year company.
I think investors are really starting to value companies with good economics, who can show profitable growth. Many VC-backed SV style companies over the past decade have not been like this, and I think that age is coming to an end.
Subscriptions/MRR happen to be a good way to get profitable growth, but that doesn't mean it's not possible otherwise. In fact subscriptions may be obfuscating otherwise poor economics, and I suspect that many customers are going to get subscription overload, or reach the end of nice introductory terms, and churn.
Some investors might be looking exclusively at MRR, but they are likely shortsighted. If too many value MRR and don't value other revenue, there will be plenty of valuable investments to be had in non-subscription companies and the market should rebalance.
Do you mean Blackstone?
Might as well be Blackwater for all the good it's doing the world.
LOL
Every service, or product that relies on a service can either be taken from you, or have its terms changed. You'll have no recourse, or else your recourse will be a lengthy class action lawsuit, which may still result in an unsatisfactory resolution for the consumer.
Even if this was made possible by their T&C, it must suck as a customer. "Hey you know that feature you bought and have been using? 40$/mo or it doesn't work anymore =)"
I wonder if customer protection laws in the US can force them to revert their update.
Agree. Getting too hung up on what the T&C say is missing the point. You can put whatever you want in a contract, but if it’s very unpalatable to your customers, whether or not you can legally do it will be a moot point.
Wow, an IoT company doing ransomware? That's crazy. No one could possibly have predicted that this would quickly become commonplace
I am confused. I almost bought the Peloton treadmill months ago and it was pretty clear that the $40 subscription was needed and was on top. To me, the $40 subscription for treadmill is not new news
How can a lump of hardware require a subscription to work? I've been in a coma for 20 years.
Because you're not really buying the hardware. Like you are in the sense that the price of the bike covers the hardware cost, and that you own the hunk of metal and plastic so that you're responsible for maintaining it and fixing/replacing it if you break it and it's transferable if you ever want to sell it. But like an iPhone you're buying a client to a larger service hosted by Peleton -- that's their whole business model. If you want an offline bike there are literally hundreds of brands to choose from but you buy a Peleton bike because it's the entry-fee to access Peleton's services.
> Because you're not really buying the hardware.
Apparently, what you are buying is an obligation to buy a recurring subscription.
The genius in getting people to spend a lot up front to so burden themselves is that the more they pay, the less likely they are to walk away from it.
The Sunk Cost fallacy is strong.
Every company wants recurring revenue:
Why don't we have this with computers? Surely we're depriving Lenovo and Apple of such revenue if we use the computer and don't pay a monthly fee? This whole sub thing is nuts.
We do, it's basically Google and Apple's business model with Android [1] and iOS -- they're just better at hiding the monthly fee.
[1] Yes you can have non-Google subscribed Android devices, doesn't mean that Google is banking on all but an insignificant portion of users doing that.
This has already happened in the workplace. A lot of offices have computers that are 'thin clients', meaning they run a very minimal, locked down OS that only lets them connect to a cloud-based Windows environment, managed by an IT vendor like Citrix.
No data is stored on the company hardware, it's all in the cloud.
Microsoft has been testing the concept with Office 365...just you wait.
No HW involve though?
I was thinking more, that they rent access to the operating system, and push hard for locked down secure boot so Linux is hard to install.
What isn’t clear to me is whether Peloton intends for this to be a permanent end state - that you need to buy a subscription to use “Just Run” - or if it’s a temporary state (we introduced the locking feature, made a dumb decision to require an account, and accounts are tied to paid subscriptions, and thus until we unwind that, here’s a few free months.)
The former would be absolutely reprehensible. It’s ransomware, in the name of a death caused by your product.
If it’s the latter, they absolutely blew it while communicating this.
The likely scenario to me is somewhere inbetween. They are seeing how people react to this and were intentionally ambiguous to give themselves an escape hatch if there’s backlash.
Peloton probably also wants to collect the valuable behavior data of users that are not currently signing in.
Before people go on a reddit like hate trail, it should be noted is in parallel with a full recall and reimbursement of all the treadmills
Yeah, since they were pressured by the government into issuing a recall, they figured it would be a good time to shed customers that don't provide them recurring income which will offset the cost of the recall.
How does shedding non-paying customers offset any costs?
What does it mean to shed a customer that payed for a device and you have no ongoing relation with?
What is/was the recall for? Is there something unique about the treadmill that makes it more dangerous than 'normal' treadmills?
It's missing a guard that prevents the tread from pulling things under the whole device. There was an incident of a kid getting pulled under one of these treadmills unable to get out, which is why the company is doing this and the recall.
How do you return a giant piece of metal? Do they send a truck to pick it up? Who pays for that?
Peleton pays for it all. They send a company to your house and pick up the device.
Alternatively, They will pay and schedule a company to come to your house and relocate the device somewhere away from children and pets.
Are some portion of sold pelotons "used", without disclosing this to customers?
Seems like their customers would not be happy if that was the case. Conversely, would be extremely wasteful if they don't.
What do they do with returned equipment?
>Are some portion of sold pelotons "used", without disclosing this to customers?
Im not sure I follow what you mean by "used" what disclosure you are referring to.
>What do they do with returned equipment?
Probably either scrap them or refurbish re-sell. This would be similar to when car manufacturers issue a recall with a buyback option.
Are refurbished used pelatons a separate SKU, or do customers buying new pelatons get refurbished ones without realizing it?
No clue, I dont work for Peloton. for all I know they end up in a garbage dump.
Could someone explain why people are still buying these instead of competing treadmills? Do they have some kind of killer feature?
The killer feature is marketing and content for your instagram account
Anyone who is remotely tech-savvy has been on the continuum from skeptical of "free" cloud-based services, to downright paranoid. Two decades ago the joke was your fridge would stop working unless you paid for a microsoft upgrade. Obviously satire, it did carry an obvious warning that cloud-enable devices are owned by the cloud and not the purchaser. And here we are now with Peloton bricking a treadmill.
To reference a cliche, I think Peloton turned up the heat a little two quickly and the frog jumped out of the pot of water. But they will learn to go more slowly in the future, the same way that we see people lazily subscribing to multiple $5.99 streaming TV channels, ultimately costing more than cable.
A possible explanation is that they need/want to address th safety issue quickly, and the way to do that is a software change to something that is subscription only. They may well break out the PIN/safety feature later to not require a subscription.
Peloton introduced a 4-digit passcode to improve product safety. But the passcode only works on their $39.99/mo. subscription tier. Give SaaS business models an inch and they'll take a mile.
Can we go back to 1995 when $9.99 VHS exercise tapes were still an option?
> Can we go back to 1995 when $9.99 VHS exercise tapes were still an option?
Exercise DVDs in that price range (same nominal price, substantially lower real price than $9.99 in 1995 dollars) are readily available and DVD players are cheap.
Such a stupid move even from a pure business point of view. People who can fork out $3k for a treadmill (as well as have the space and time to use it) are people who are in a good position to defend themselves from this sort of bullshit
No need for the courts:
"As a reminder, under the terms of our voluntary recall, Tread+ owners can return their Tread+ for a full refund by contacting Member support,"
Though who would want to own that death trap is beyond me.
Until the regulators intervene, the trend of turning product ownership into subscription would continue. Makers of the locked down smart products are also opposing the right to repair.
I wish it were a common knowledge that proprietary IoT devices are related to planned obsolescence, and therefore are bad for environment. The climate and environment activists have a stronger voice than consumer rights or privacy activists. It would be nice to join forces and lobby laws against this kind of predatory behavior.
The title of this article is somewhat silly to me. The subscription fee has never been a surprise to anyone who's owned one.
The point of a Peloton is to do the classes, either for running or spinning, which require a subscription. It would be silly to buy a premium device who's point is to use the subscription based features and specifically intend to use it without the subscription. Just buy a similar treadmill from another company.
The title is poorly worded. But intentionally bricking customers' devices post-purchase to require a subscription is an absolutely insane decision, especially given that the reasoning they give for it is a reminder that they just killed a child.
> It would be silly to buy a premium device who's point is to use the subscription
I think you could have stopped there.
The business model appears to be: sell an expensive hostage, justify ramping up recurring ransoms by threatening to kill the hostage.
> subscription. It would be silly to buy a premium device who's point is to use the subscription based features and specifically intend to use it without the subscription.
What if they go out of business?
I suppose that's always a risk but Peloton is in a strong financial position. They're highly unlikely to go out of business within the expected lifespan of a treadmill.
Currently performance is not a guarantee of long term outcomes, many companies have appeared to be in a strong financial position and then suddenly collapsed. As it is Peloton is currently running at a loss. You also have to factor in acquisitions, which occasionally have led to a loss of support for devices.
What's next, a kettlebell bolted to the floor until I agree to a monthly subscription?
I can't imagine paying this much money to _just_ run. Okay, run and have someone encourage me. I get that they're successful, and lots of people seem to want a treadmill or bike that doesn't move, but I don't personally understand it. I'm starting to feel old fashioned with my workout technology, shoes and shorts.
I’m guessing they’ll use electromagnets to keep it glued to its base station unless your subscription is paid.
Pelaton - I foresee a class action suit in your future. If this stands, next you'll have an automobile that is bricked after an "update".
I think this is horrible and I feel bad for the customers, but maybe this will make people think twice about buying a 3000 treadmill in the future.
I want to clarify because a lot of people seem to be confused about what's happening here.
"Just run" is tracking your metrics. You can STILL use the treadmill without it, you just won't be getting information on the run like your pace, calories burned, power output, etc. The treadmill isn't bricked, it's just not providing metrics. If you have a garmin watch or insert fitness tracker you can still get info from that.
I can understand why people would be annoyed by this change, and I would hope they add the functionality back in the future. But everyone saying it's "bricked" needs to take a deep breath.
I don't think you are correct. The entire point is to prevent treadmill use so children cannot run it. If it only prevented the viewing of run stats how would that keep kids from activating it?
Yeah, seems totally reasonable to not have metrics after spending $2k-$3k on hardware. /s
I guess it's a good thing I didn't say it was totally reasonable to remove metrics from the treadmill. Quite literally stated I understand why people are frustrated and I hope they add them back. Didn't even need a /s because I was trying to actually contribute something useful to the comments section.
In other words, bricked by the vendor themselves.
Bricked implies its as useful as a brick, but it still functions as a treadmill
This is completely unacceptable. This is like your fully-purchased electric vehicle refusing to start anymore unless you pay $300/month.
The article uses the term "Just Run" several times but never bothers to explain what "Just Run" is. If it's the ability to use the treadmill without a subscription, well, that sucks but I can't imagine anyone spending $3k on one of these without even using the tablet.
No one should have to do it to use the device but Peletons are actually relatively simple to jail break.
> As a reminder, under the terms of our voluntary recall, Tread+ owners can return their Tread+ for a full refund by contacting Member support
I really don’t see the problem. You don’t have to like it, you can just return it (presumably getting the purchase money back). Vote with your wallet!
That would depend on how easy their return process is. I can’t imagine it’s easy to ship back.
Their return process is you say you want to return it, then you schedule a return date, and they send two guys out to box it up and remove it from your home.
I'm not sure it could be any easier.
Smart move from Peloton - TAAS (Treadmill As A Service).
"surprise"
Hardware changes slower than software. Some very influential software companies (e.g. Microsoft, Adobe) switched to a subscription model some time ago.
From a marketing perspective it seems to make sense. If your customers pay a lot of money to buy your product and don't hesitate to connect it to the internet, they are probably wealthy but not very intelligent. Ideal marks for a subscription service.
What kind of weird ass psychoanalysis is this? People who pay money for products and connect them to the internet are stupid and have money?
> People who pay money for products and connect them to the internet are stupid and have money?
If you can buy a $3k treadmill, you have money (although about $3k less of it, in fairness).
If you think your treadmill needs to be connected to the internet, you are not particularly intelligent.
Neither of these are controversial takes. We've had enough experience with IoT devices being absolutely god-awful to know this.
the whole point of the product is to connect it to the internet and participate in a remote class, along with other gamification features that encourage using the product and staying fit. people buy it for this reason, generally speaking.
> the whole point of the product is to connect it to the internet
Correct, this is one of the reasons why it is not a very good product. Its entire selling point is detrimental.
Yes.
It's funny, this is the basis of many Nigerian scams. Make the scam as dumb as possible so you are guaranteed that the people who respond are self selecting as the most oblivious people in society.
Pelton has managed to identify the exact set of people who are rich, oblivious, and like fitness.
$39.99 is way too small for their target audience. It looks like a crowd who are more in love with the idea of exercising rather than exercise itself. Charge those vain addicted people to death, more like $399/mo for starters , the basic package