Fines up to $66k or five years prison for Australians returning home from India
theguardian.comI'm an Australian living abroad, and from my perspective this is consistent with the government's messaging from the beginning: "come home now or be prepared to stay were you are for an extended period of time." Unfortunate as it is, Australians were told to make a decision early last year. It's ultimately unfair to other Australians who have made sacrifices to keep Australia effectively Covid free if others who decided to stay abroad all rush home whenever things get bad in their necks of the woods.
Eh, I'm not entirely sure it's consistent with the spirit of citizenship though, even if it's consistent with the governments messaging.
What happens if peoples visas expire? What happens if people lose their job abroad? What happens if people's home life in Australia changes, and they have to go back to care for an elderly or ill relative? Or if your father dies and someone needs to care for your mum? "Tough shit, you chose to live abroad so stay out" is one way to handle this, but in reality there should probably be more nuance.
Even if you decided to stay abroad because you don't want to quit your job, but then the country you were working in starts to have oxygen shortages and their medical system starts failing during a global pandemic, I think this also counts as a situation where a country should be helping it's citizens rather than saying "Well sorry, you knew the risk, we offered you the option to quit your job and come back home and be unemployed, but you chose to stay there. I mean we could set up a quarantine facility but if you come back we will send you to jail instead".
They should offer some sort of pathway for getting back, even if it means sitting for 2 weeks in a government quarantine facility and having to pay for the priviledge.
I see your points, especially with the conflict if citizenship. There will be an obligation on the government to come up with a solution, but that requires at least a small period of time for planning. I could see an island quarantine facility being established.
This sort of thing has been brought up for more than a year. The federal government has shirked all responsibility from the start of this whole affair. States have requested federal support for establishing these sorts of quarantine facilities, and been rejected on multiple occasions. The federal government claims it is a state responsibility, as health is generally a state responsibility. However, constitutionally quarantine is a Commonwealth responsibility and therefore the federal government should be handling it. As a citizen overseas, states do not harbor much responsibility for my situation as I'm not a resident of said state, which is fair enough in my mind. But that means the federal government's dereliction of responsibility leaves me and many others out to dry. I'm just glad the country that invited me in hasn't been so incompetent and cruel.
If only the Australian government had the resources to rent a few busses and hotels.
Or even something crazy like a quarantine room in the embassy before flown out from india...and since your alone (or other previously quarantined aussies) in the aircraft that should be no problem...but more important, if you go back are you instantly thrown into the jail? Questions after questions.
And even funnier, 66k OR prison...that's what i call fair.
> but that requires at least a small period of time for planning.
Wasnt 2020 enough for the planning, how much time do you need?
How is this even an issue? I just can’t imagine many Australians going to India to work since it’s a much poorer country. Like, it’s hard for me to believe there’s more than 100 Australians who did that. And they can easily quarantine that many people. The article makes it sound like it’s a huge number of people they’d need to build facilities for which seems super strange.
> I just can’t imagine many Australians going to India
It's Australia's 3rd biggest trading partner after China and the US, along with huge numbers of 1st generation citizens. It's more surprising the stated numbers of Australians over there are so low.
For one of the biggest exporters on Earth I'm always amazed at how sheltered Aussies are, many live in a bubble and have to be one of the most irrationally risk-averse people you can find.
Taiwan has been able to competently deal with covid for a year despite being right in the epicentre of it all, there's no flight caps and the only restrictions are for tourists, most people quarantine at home. In comparison, Australia still can't manage to take in more than 50 people on a flight, nor more than 6000 a week into the entire country while the cost for a family of 4 returning to the country often tops $40,000.
As a guide, over 12000 people are leaving the country every week now, more than double than are allowed to come back, it has turned into flight bidding game amongst the richest who can afford to leave for holidays and easily come back paying quarantine costs with no regard for the needs of anyone else who works or studies overseas. Nearly two thirds of the people flying into the country now are not actually citizens, the flight cap doesn't change to accommodate this.
It's truly bizarre to watch most think the government has "handled this well" and general polling supporting these actions. The whole system is breaking down at a fundamental level and yet the only metric Australians seem to judge it by is infection numbers.
Once the dust settles it will more look like pushing women and children out of the way as you rush for the exits of a burning building. I doubt anyone will look back with pride on decisions like this, it undermines the entire principal of citizenship and makes a mockery of signed human rights declarations.
Australia is a very popular destination for Indian expats.
> At the Australian Bureau of Statistics' 2016 census, 619,164 people in Australia declared that they were of ethnic Indian ancestry.[1] This comprises 2.8% of the Australian population
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Australians#Current_p...
I'm just going to respond to this comment since all are saying the same thing basically - the comment I replied to was implying something else, that Australians are working in India and weren't able to return when the government demanded it because they would have lost their jobs in India, which sounds like a legitimate reason to refuse to return, but also sounds like a group of people that's likely mostly imaginary.
I'm sure there's a bunch of Australians going to India for all kinds of reasons, I didn't mean to imply people from Australia never travel to India in general, but people who were visiting India could have returned when the government warned them to do so, and I assume the vast majority did, apart from covid-denying "you can't tell me what to do" types which I have little sympathy for.
Many Indians acquire citizenship abroad, get NRI status, and spend long visits in India with family. They have valid claims in both countries.
There are Australia permanent residents as well.
Australia awards citizenship extremely generously. You only need to be living in the country for four years (which can be as an international student), there is no income test, no employment test, no language test, no requirement to give up your prior citizenship.
The 'Australians' in India are citizens of opportunity, who were born in India and retain their citizenship there, and the sympathy for them from actual Australians is zero.
As an Australian citizen, I have plenty of sympathy for those who have dual/multiple citizenship. They've been treated particularly harshly by both the federal government and their fellow Australian citizens. Some notes:
- There is an income test for permanent residency, which is required for most pathways to citizenship. Apart from family-stream visas which require a direct relationship with an Australian citizen, most visas eligible for permanent residency are work-related and you won't get one of those without an income test[1].
- There is an employment test, as above
- There is a language test, see the section on Language Ability[2], this has been a significant bottleneck for personal friends who speak English perfectly well
- Student visas don't make you eligible for permanent residency, let alone citizenship[2]
- Australia's community values explicitly state that dual/multiple citizenship doesn't exempt you from being Australian[3]
- Australia's pathways to citizenship (via PR, work visa etc.) are some of the most expensive and time-consuming in the world
[1] https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/permanent-resident/vis...
[2] https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/citizenship/become-a-citizen...
[3] https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/citizenship-subsite/Pages/Le...
>The 'Australians' in India are citizens of opportunity, who were born in India and retain their citizenship there, and the sympathy for them from actual Australians is zero.
India doesn't recognize dual citizenship, while Australia might not require you to give up your prior citizenship, India will if you want to become Australian. [0] You can become an "Overseas Citizen of India" but this is just a permanent visa that can be revoked at any time and does not confer voting rights. [1]
[0] https://india.embassy.gov.au/ndli/dualnlty.htm
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/08/india-strips-c...
This isn't accurate.
There is a citizenship test, and as I understand it some level of English proficiency is required. The residency requirement is four years, at least one as a permanent resident. Permanent residency, depending on the stream, has its own skill, employment, and English proficiency requirements.
As for how 'actual Australians' feel, this is a complex issue with questions on a lot of axes. People's opinions are going to be varied and nuanced.
I assume the way actual Australians feel is also in part fueled by disinformation, that reinforces the natural human xenophobic predispositions.
It's so easy to come up with bullshit, yet it takes time to debunk it.
Feeding disinformation to the public and then using their reaction to justify their reaction is circular. "I tell you, others in your group believe members of the other group are doing something wring. If enough of you believe what I told you, I'm not lying by definition, because now you do indeed believe that."
I am not sure where you are getting your information from, I assure you it’s far from the correct.
I suggest a visit to https://immi.homeaffairs.gov.au/visas/getting-a-visa/visa-fi... and do some research in to visa options from the source of truth not a tabloid newspaper and read the requirements, processing times and the money involved.
All very understandable but international law clearly states that you can’t prevent your own citizens from entering your country.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_of_return
If Australia wants to implement quarantines, fine. If Australia wants to appear tough and make an example of people by denying them their rights, not fine.
I remember India itself violating this as part of pandemic related restrictions last year, when they tried to restrict entry of Indians who were abroad back to India.
The problem with international law is of course that there is no way to enforce it, the states are sovereign. But a state can’t violate them too egregiously and still pretend to be a first world lawful state.
Legally is allowing them to return and fining and imprisoning them the same as not allowing them to return?
Yes, because you're effectively being punished for exercising your right.
I'd be more understanding if this was applied consistently. But for example Oz knew the tennis tournament was unsafe, yet players were flown in, likely infected on the flight and hosted while sick. If the same can't be afforded to people returning home, that's BS.
Also if people would be jailed rather than sent back, it means gov can deal with their quarantine if they have to.
Australia keeping its own citizens out is heartless. Particularly during a crisis. Governments have a responsibility before all of their citizens. The responsibility for this doesn't solely rest on the government either. In a country where the highest power is supposedly held by the people, the people also share in this responsibility. That's what citizenship is about. If the government can renege on its deal, then can citizens get out of their obligation to pay taxes too?
Are you even a citizen if you're not legally allowed to return to the country?
There are thousands of Australians who tried to get home, but were unable to. Your comment is misleading.
Who cares if they are consistent? If my government tells me ahead of time that it’s going to infringe upon my rights, does that somehow make it acceptable?
It’s for reasons like this that the American tradition of defending civil liberties and the Constitution is so important. Clearly some Anglosphere countries without this tradition have no issues violating it when convenient.
To think - thrown in prison for returning to your own country. It’s completely absurd.
Feel obligated to say this “law” of the Australia government is an operational definition of a “shithole country” ....
This makes me wonder about, how cargo is currently handled between India and Australia?
Two sets of crew on the plane, they never formally depart other than a pre-flight check.
This is pretty lame for a government to do. People pay huge taxes there for policies that 5 yo could come up with. What all those advisors get paid for? If I was Australian I would demand my taxes back.