Bill Evans – The Creative Process and Self-Teaching (2007) [video]
youtube.comWhat he said at the beginning is true for so many things...
* management. My current manager refuses to understand actual technical challenges that we're dealing with. Instead he is just trying to figure out how the team can organize itself, and work with other teams, and scale itself, and collaborate, and track work, etc. I think we are making a lot of wrong decisions at the moment due to this stubbornness to understand the actual types of problems we're trying to solve, and from there understand how we can organize work to better serve us and allow us to make progress.
* research. There can be a lot of bike shedding, or drive-by feedback, on complicated projects. Rarely people want to actually dig into one part of the problem, and really understand it. Most engineers think that it any problem is easy to solve. Yet when they have to solve it, they get lost. Research is about taking it one step at a time, understanding everything that's in front of you before going to the next page. It's only when you accept that you are going to have to invest time into this, and take it slowly, that you start making real progress, and start getting a real understanding of the whole problem.
What Bill's talking about applies to artists/craftspeople/experts in a niche. Organisations are vastly more complicated than composition of music, in that many thousands of experts are needed to work together, each with their own unique expertise, versus just 1 for composition.
Managers are needed to communicate between these experts, and it should go without saying that it's impossible for them to have the same expertise as each of the 2-1000s of experts under them.
> I think we are making a lot of wrong decisions at the moment due to this stubbornness to understand the actual types of problems we're trying to solve
Almost certainly you don't understand the types of problems your manager needs to solve also.
Yes organizations are vastly more complicated, in a way they're some kind of chaos, like a garden.
A garden, being big or small, is still chaos: not that there's no order, but that there's different species (animal, vegetal, mineral) that coexist and upon which coexistence you can plan some sort of order.
But that plan and that order is purely the product of both what you, as a gardener/manager have in mind, and what the species can and let you do with them.
If you don't have a good understanding of what you can or cannot do with what you have (the framework), and what level of engagement is required from you (let it flow or actively intervene/change/break rules). And if you don't know people that are experts/practitioners as you are, that may help you - you may by chance have something nice/according to plan. Or not at all.
Well, music/craft/painting can also be (and is often) the result of a complex organization/network, when you take all the elements in place to obtain something: you, your skills, your desire, your tools (and those that build them and can help you), your fellow artists.
What Bill's talking about sound like a particular perspective on the Donning-Kruger effect, that applies to both small scale (managing single-person projects) and large scale (managing at large in an org).
I'm recovering from a year-long obsessive binge of Bill Evans Trio. For other fans here, I'm curious as to what your favorite album is? I Will Say Goodbye and Since We Met are brlliant, of course, but Sunday at the Village Vanguard with Scott Lafaro holds a special place in my heart.
Yours?
Not by the trio, but Undercurrent was the first album I listened to, and my favorite from Bill Evans by far. His (and Jim Hall's) improvisations, and the overall tone of the piano, in these tunes were incredible in terms of both melody and harmony.
+1 to this. This is an incredible record.
I usually recommend "Since We Met" to anyone new to Evans, its a great collection of tunes and a great performance. "I Will Say Goodbye" is a great record too, although my CD copy has lots of tape wow and flutter all over it. I'm not sure if the broken tape machine was used in mastering or whether all recordings have these artefacts.
How about his work with Toots Thielemans, ‘Affinity’. Such an unlikely combo but certainly kindred spirits.
Sunday at the Village Vanguard and Waltz for Debby are 2 of the best live albums of any genre
+1 to this. Scott LaFaro was an incredible bassist who sadly died shortly after these recordings were made.
Also, for work inspired by Bill Evans, I would recommend Chucho Valdes' lovely solo tribute, "Bill (Evans)". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0efPOn5C4c
Add to this Portrait in Jazz and Explorations.
I’ve been listening to those four albums very regularly for 6-7 years now. For a while I listened to at least one of the four each night.
yeah, to be pedantic they aren't live albums but totally agree - I wouldn't be surprised if I've listened to portrait in jazz 500 times front to back
The 1972 ORTF Paris recording (https://www.discogs.com/Bill-Evans-Trio-Complete-February-19...) is the one I listen to most (although Conversations with Myself is a close one). I particularly like the rendition of Autumn Leaves and Someday My Prince Will Come from it, although the whole album is excellent. For some reason, not available on Apple Music, though (I’ve had it on CD for many years).
Funny, I started my obsession about two months ago. I've basically always had Sunday at the Village Vanguard somewhere in my rotation for the last 10 years, but I've only started branching out with other Evans albums recently, beginning with Undercurrents. So I'm following replies here with some anticipation.
'Conversations With Myself' was enjoyable for me. Multiple Bills, playing at once!
Nice to see some jazz fans on HN.
There are so many good ones, but my personal favorite is Moonbeams for a more slow, contemplative sound.
Mine is Some Other Time: The Lost Session From The Black Forest
I can listen to that album without ever getting tired.
Sunday at the Village Vanguard is my favourite
I recommend trying out Ahmad Jamal maybe you like him too
Hmm, I think it’s called “Time Remembered”? I believe that’s the one with their take on Danny Boy, my favorite interpretation of it (narrowly beating the King’s Singers).
I have been enjoying Bill Frisell Gone, Just like a train. Review: “...as if Carl Perkins and Duane Eddy took on Otis Rush and Bill Evans in a bridge tournament.”
I bought this on CD when it first came out. There is a big fold-out with gorgeous cartoon paintings by Jim Woodring. It's worth having the physical object if you like the music.
I have limited explosure to Bill Frisell, but he seems to have a diverse sound and can play many different genres of music. Thanks for sharing.
in some ways one of the most influential living guitarists. you can really hear his influence on julian lage, and actually im pretty sure bireli lagrene has been influenced lately based on some of his recent recordings. i cant think of a single guitarist, or really any musician i know who doesnt love him.
The Complete Village Vanguard, and Complete Verve, are essential because of the alternate takes, which imo are often better than the master takes.
Consecration: The Final Recordings
It's recorded weeks before his death. There's something special in his later performances.
Favorite album probably You Must Believe In Spring. Days of Wine And Roses from Letter To Evan is my favorite tune at the moment.
Undercurrent is my favorite, closely followed by waltz for debby, stellar artist!
Explorations hits a great spot for me. But Village Vanguard is probably my fav.
Undercurrent is a definite favorite, what a brilliant musician.
Bill Evans in the long-form of this episode discusses how he approached his career: which was focus on the music first and foremost. He pushes back against trying to solve too many problems at the same time.
“If I spread myself all over the place I would have lost sight of everything.”
“Gosh if you try to accept every problem you’re just going to go insane. So you have to choose some field in which you operate at your best capacity which will then serve as an influence towards all the other problems that you may worry about. So if I take care of the music the best I can with my truest beliefs, then all these other things will be affected as I desire them to be affected, as much as I can affect them.”
I am immediately a fan of him.
"The professional...must fight to preserve the naiveté that the layman already possesses" - a genius quote by Bill Evans that applies to more than just music.
The reminds me of Zen master Shunru Suzuki's famous statement: "in the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, in the expert's mind there are few," in his book Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshin.
It also reminds me of the spontaneity Bob Dylan consciously strives to bring to his songwriting. He tries to avoid writing out of his conscious knowledge of how to write a song, and let his unconscious do it instead: "It’s nice to be able to put yourself in an environment where you can completely accept all the unconscious stuff that comes to you from your inner workings of your mind. And block yourself off to where you can control it all, take it down" https://www.brainpickings.org/2014/05/21/bob-dylan-songwrite...
The full documentary is worth checking out:
The Universal Mind of Bill Evans (1966) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QwXAqIaUahI
Are there modern equivalents of this type of content? Longform discussions with a genius about their field, it is so good.
Great question. I pine for venues like The Dick Cavett show where space is given to dig into the broad scheme around an artist’s creativity. As an example, this little clip with Paul Simon explaining his Bach influence in Bridge Over Troubled Water, for example, takes time to set context.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFt0cP-klQI
If you consider comedy a refined art as I do, Marc Maron gets into the pith with musicians, actors , writers and comedians as a rule. Another reply here makes the same point - podcasts seem to be the venue for this these days. I’d say creating space for the longer discussion is key.
Docs like this are diamonds in the rough though. Great post.
I guess (good) podcasts are the modern equivalent!
I seen either this or another interview where he drives home the idea the the only way to succeed is to enjoy the learning process itself.
I love that ideology, I've been thinking like this lately with music. In my mind, its not about practicing a lot now to one day becoming a "musician"; but instead I just want to play right now no matter how well I can play. But eventually if I play enough and focus on improving and learning I'll continue to improve my playing
His episode of Piano Jazz with Marion McPartland is really a joy. It's on spotify.
https://www.npr.org/2010/10/08/92185496/bill-evans-on-piano-...
As Miles Davis said of Bill Evans: "he played the piano the way it should be played, like sparkling water cascading down from some clear waterfall" ;)
Broken Time: Nardis and the Curious History of a Jazz Obsession
That was an incredible read, thanks for sharing. I've always had a real love for Bill Evans music but I never got around to reading about his life.
Yes! It's ace.
Thanks for this! While the provided clip offers some widely applicable advice which transcends music, it’s also a nice gateway to a pleasant 45 minute documentary.
If you enjoyed this, you'll likely enjoy Ethan Iverson's discussions of Evans:
https://ethaniverson.com/2020/04/08/riffs-second-set/ https://ethaniverson.com/reds-bells/
Favorite Piano Player :). As a jazz aficionado I've tried to learn a lot of tricks from Bill. Genius.
Bill Evans & Jim Hall --> Undercurrent
They also played on Intermodulation and Interplay, great albums. For guitarists, I like Grant Green, Wes Montgomery, and Joe Pass as well.
Yes, great albums!
Also really like the Milestones of a Jazz Legend - Jim Hall on Guitar Vol. 2 on Spotify https://open.spotify.com/album/5bwrg1BJvmtGEVxXmBvM2r?si=szA...
I guess I’m not the only one that hears Green and thinks his solos sound as crisp as Evans’ in the piano :)
Favorite pianist and probably musician of all time. I'm always a little aback when I hear him speak; the piano is his real voice.
Agree. I'm especially fond of his live performance at Shelly's Manne Hole. I never tire of this. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0q2VleZJVEkZQ83uqLZd...
> Bill Evans – The Creative Process and Self-Teaching (2007) [video]
That how 2007 looked like?
The YT video is from 2007, the documentary is from 1966.
That’s a clip made in 2007 from the 1966 documentary titled, “Universal Mind of Bill Evans” — here’s the full video:
Whoa! Have loved Evan's playing for ever but have not heard him speak before, let alone have him speak about his own creative approach. It is indeed inspiring beyond improvisational music!
Hold my beer, I gotta go listen to the intro to "So What" again now... :-)
Those lush opening chords are what got me into Bill Evans. I also discovered Jaco Pastorius in a similar way. His bass playing in Bright Size Life was so distractingly good I had to investigate.
"The piano-and-bass introduction for the piece was written by Gil Evans for Bill Evans and Paul Chambers on Kind of Blue."[0]
At about 35 seconds into this[1] filmed version of So What, recorded between the 2 sessions for Kind of Blue, you can hear Gil conducting his intro, arranged for his orchestra. It sounds like pretty much exactly what Bill and PC play on the record.
I'll give him credit for the sound of Flamenco Sketches[2] though, maybe my favourite Miles track, adapted from his Peace Piece. And I love the 1958 Stella he was on[3], although for me Coltrane is the star of that.
Also I love his duo records with Tony Bennett.
I really, really dislike his trio stuff though, gee. (Jazz pianist here.) Unswinging, and argghh that clunky locked-hands style is the worst. It puzzles me when people talk as if everything he ever did was uniquely great, and rave about his genius. </rant>
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/So_What_(Miles_Davis_compositi...
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diHFEapOr_E
interesting, I did not know this! But now that you say it, it totally sounds like Gil Evans. Such an amazing composer and arranger.
Ya know, I've never listened to Bright Size Life. I love Jaco's debut album. Now queued up to listen to after dinner. Thanks.
Bill had a lifelong heroin addiction though. I wonder how much that helped him with focus and creatively.
Classic video. Such a genius.
Wow. Total Genius.