Stimulus.js 2.0

Have you checked out Surface [1]? In a recent interview [2] Chris McCord hinted at merging at least some of Surface into LiveView.

[1] http://surface-demo.msaraiva.io

[2] https://thinkingelixir.com/podcast-episodes/024-liveview-upl...

> Any other suggestion for lightweight rich JS components that do not require one to buy into Vue, React or other "full-stack" JS libraries?

Depending on your needs, you can sort of use Alpine + server-side templating to achieve this. While Alpine itself has no concept of components, you can define a template fragment that consists solely of the “component” for basically the same effect. Because the x-data directive is freshly evaluated each time it appears, you can include a fragment multiple times and get isolated “instances”.

YMMV though, I eventually found that because templating is much more simplistic than a real tree of components as you would get with Vue or React, things started getting hard to follow, especially when my “components” were nested, or involved approximating slots.

Ultimately I converted to Inertia.js, which is a very small glue library that lets me write the whole front end in Vue (or React, or Svelte) while keeping a more traditional Laravel (or Rails) backend.

Shadow dom is optional for web components, web components are still useful without it, so I hardly see how that could be a reason for "failed piece of technology".

Also, did you try with pure JS ? no lit ? I just removed StencilJS from my component to go pure-JS and it turns out I really prefer it that way, maybe it would suit you too to do WC without any additional JS lib ?

Consider redom, mithril, snabbdom, riot.js, lighterhtml or even svelte.

React is great though, why not just use that?

I am an experienced web dev and went into Stimulus excited to have something that seemed straightforward, but was disappointed. Vue has the flexibility to do SSR HTML with a bit of javascript for behavior way that works well for me.

Just being able to put

    <button @click.prevent="save(<%= id %>)">Save</button>

    <button data-action="click->some--long--path-to#save" data-id="<%= id %>">Save</button>

    save(event) {
      event.preventDefault()

No, you can just use normal HTML, add some vue-specific stuff and then treat that HTML as Vue app.

It’s how people use Vue as a jQuery replacement.

No it is flexible and Vue 3 let's you do it more react-hooks style.

Huh? I think Knockout.js was awesome for its time! To me, Vue.js feels like Knockout’s spiritual successor. What did you find frustrating about Knockout?

Thank you for saying this. I thought it but didn’t write it as I don’t want to offend.

The amount of extra work and complexity that a separate FE introduces requires serious benefits on the other side of the equation.

Isn't Stimilus a JS framework?

Came to say the same. I've found it to be a really great productive combination. I can sprinkle in React components where the UI is especially rich and use Rails for everything else.

As another option, HAML lets you extract the attributes into a ruby helper method:

https://haml.info/docs/yardoc/file.REFERENCE.html#attribute-...

Same. I’ve been a happy user of Haml for about ten years, but I think that Tailwind and Stimulus will permanently force me back to ERB :(

Sure!

One typical example is a component that collects (and displays) education history provided by the user. I'll list out just a few key UI behavior:

* A "read" view which represents a list of containers with titles that show each instance of a users answer (for example, if you provided 5 sets of answers, such as 5 universities you attended, we need to show those 5 in some sort of preview form on the page)

* A button that when clicked opens up a modal which contains multiple "steps" - each step is a small set of form inputs that range from simple ones like date to more complex ones involving search / autocomplete or file uploading.

* A button inside the modal that lets you navigate through the various steps / groups of form inputs.

* A "save" button inside the modal that persists your answers. This closes the modal and shows your set of answers as an instance in the list view (see the first bullet).

* In-line validation errors as the user is filling out each step of the modal

* Messages to notify the user that a modal needs to be opened and completed (Like if the user closed the modal before filling everything out, we want to let them know it's not fully completed).

Where some of the biggest complexity crop up:

* Form input data handling and general state management. As I mentioned, we can have upwards of maybe 20 controls in this component. At minimum, we need to write code to listen to input changes and make sure this new information is kept in sync with both internal component state and other parts of the UI. If you gave us a valid answer, we need to make sure to update the UI to show a checkmark (in the simple case). We also have controls that show or hide based on your answers to other form controls, so we'll need to handle inputs by potentially hiding or showing other inputs.

* Ok, so what if we need to write some UI updating code? Well, updating any part of the UI requires manual DOM manipulation. At minimum, this can be something simple like toggling visibility of an element by adding or removing a class. At worst, this involves appending html template strings (like if we need to show a list of errors on top of the modal) when the user attempts to save bad answers.

* Cross-component communication is difficult. Want to add a subcomponent? And it needs to communicate with the parent? For example, each step in our view is sort of a "sub form" and it needs to talk to the parent "modal" to keep global state - you'll need to roll some basic event handling code between the two.

* Testability. All these DOM changes - how do we test that our component is behaving? At the time we adopted stimulus, there wasn't a standard way of testing our stimulus controller so we've mostly leaned on (expensive) UI integration tests.

Some of this complexity is sort of inherent to forms - forms are complex UI components. There are hosts of libraries in other frameworks for dealing with form inputs alone (in order to cut down on the boilerplate you have to write). For example, formik in react helps cut down on a ton of boilerplate you have to write in order to wire the form control DOM state to react state.

Some of this complexity is also our own doing - we keep A LOT of state in the DOM. If a user blanks out an answer, we need to update the DOM with an additional form control whose value will get passed back to the backend to persist the change in the DB. Moving over to ReactJS won't help us here - this will require changes to our backend vs frontend API's.

However, having to handle the bulk of those DOM changes yourself requires a lot of code, is pretty error prone, and quite hard overall to maintain (as anyone who has rolled apps using vanilla javascript can attest to). StimulusJS doesn't offer many facilities for changing your UI in a declarative way.

Finally, cross-component communication is very common and while there is a number of ways to pass data back and form between stimulus controllers, there isn't really a nice way to do it outside of passing events. This is fine for simple cases, but error prone for our use cases. In reactjs, invoking callbacks that change parent state feels much more straightforward and has been easier to test.

Hope that helps

Source? They never hinted anything like that.

I’m currently dealing with a modal issue within Svelte (pretty sure it’s due to createDispatch) and the Discord moves too fast to get help.

Gonna check this out in the AM.

EDIT: Couldn't sleep so checked it out now. Looking through the issues, there are a couple that are apparently "fixed in 1.0" but it doesn't look like 1.0 is coming anytime soon. Shame.

> Just doesn't have as good marketing as those.

And maybe documentation too. Turbolinks has really good docs and conceptually it's pretty easy to get going (1 line of JS and learning a few event handlers). Alpine and StimulusJS have really good docs / guides and tons of practical examples if you Google for a specific problem you're trying to solve.

Unpoly's docs seem like it's mostly an HTML front-end to their API spec with very few examples. It's kind of difficult to figure out how to use most of what it does. There's also very little practical examples of using it if you Google around.

I've heard of it in the past but never got into it because of the above.

Unpoly is pretty good and complete. What I don't like is loading page specific JS/CSS via javascript. Turbolinks manages that for me and turbolink still executes inline JS.

Turbolinks falls short in providing a "framework" in how to use third party libraries - how to initialize them and how to tear them down. I finally glued together a mini-framework with hints from stack overflow, but Unpoly and their concept of compilers[1] is much more consistent.

[1] https://unpoly.com/up.compiler

symfony4+ simplifies it's architecture

I like these libraries but have the same concerns. One alternative that might be worth a look is htmx (the new library based on intercooler.js):

https://htmx.org/

What you are describing seems similar to good old BackboneJS?

One benefit is when combined with Turbolinks there is a need to bootstrap the Vue/React component. The Stimulus controllers respond to mutation observers and always work.

If a new HTML element is added to the DOM and has a controller, it just works and is now active. This might not be the case with React or Vue, as you'd have to then bootstrap the component.

This makes Stimulus a really good combo when used with Turbolinks or partial Javascript responses.

I switched from Stimulus to Vue and have had a much better experience so far. It is much easier for me to use and I still get the value of "sprinking"

This used to be accurate in the days of auto initializing jquery plugins, but probably isn’t the case today if you’re actually using stimulus.

Stimulus has nothing to do with Turbolinks.