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Amnesty International India Halts Its Work in India Due to Government Reprisal

amnesty.org.in

254 points by johnnydoe9 5 years ago · 314 comments

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sidmkp96 5 years ago

HN should take down this post. The country has been heavily polarized into two sections (pro-bjp and against-bjp) with both the sections heavily incentivised by the "IT" deptt of respective political parties. Very few will talk about the actual issue and most of the comments will be rhetorical, only focusing on what they believe is right.

  • dang 5 years ago

    Yes, it was one of the worst flamewars I've ever seen on HN. What a wreck.

    We've banned several accounts and will probably moderate more aggressively next time.

  • ashleshbiradar 5 years ago

    this post is from a reputed source, I see no reason why it should be taken down. As far as I am concerned, this is not a subjective thing, the crack down on Amnesty International in the country is not subject to individual opinions.

    • naruvimama 5 years ago

      The Indian government is answerable to the people, Amnesty International is answerable to the government, the courts and perhaps its "donors".

      There is a robust system for the former, not so much for the later. AI can complain all it wants but they are just bringing in more scrutiny into their activities.

  • sumedh 5 years ago

    > only focusing on what they believe is right.

    So what is "right" as per your belief?

iKevinShah 5 years ago

One thing that comments so far down here do not highlight is that there was a recent change in the Foreign Contribution (Regulation) Act where there were changes in the amount of money / limit of administrative expenditure that can be allocated to foreign contributions to 20 percent from the previous 50 percent and, Enforcement Directorate had issued a show-cause notice to Amnesty International India recently (I think in 2019).

So while yeah, online discussions mostly conclude to simplest possible explanation i.e. authoritarian / totalitarian / nationalism / and what not - This notice comes just days after FCRA was changed in India, that might be the pushing point / breakpoint towards closure rather than "Government Witchhunt", because Amnesty has been getting the show-causes notices for some time now.

  • iamshs 5 years ago

    Rose by any other name... Amnesty India has not been convicted of any FCRA violation. India has frozen Amnesty's bank accounts without any judicial oversight making sure Amnesty India cannot function normally.

    FCRA was amended with a specific aim in mind. Hindu Nationalist groups have been vocal about religious conversions. FCRA was recently used to target 4 Christian organizations and choke their foreign funding [1].

    It is a witch-hunt specifically because Amnesty was harassed by Delhi Police about why they were probing Delhi Religious Riots 2020 and had released the report about the Police excesses in the same? It was after this that Delhi Police targeted Amnesty using FCRA law. [2]

    Amnesty India's former head put it succintly: "It has become a crime to work on human rights in India." "Amnesty has not been convicted. It has not even been put on trial in court. Shutdown refers to inability to pay salaries because accounts frozen for second time without any determination of guilt." [3]

    FCRA is just bureaucratic powerslam without going through courts to target organization that asks for transparency. India joins highly regarding company of Russia in pushing Amnesty from their country.

    [1] - https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/government-suspends-f...

    [2] - https://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Delhi/amnesty-report-on...

    [3] - https://twitter.com/Aakar__Patel/status/1310844601767309312

  • john_max_1 5 years ago

    Thanks for saying this. I don't know why everything has to be reduced to "Nazis".

0xmohit 5 years ago

Worth noting is the fact that the government is charging protestors and dissenters under sedition and UAPA [0].

> In July 2019,the ambit of UAPA was expanded. It was amended allowing the government to designate an individual as a terrorist without trial.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unlawful_Activities_(Preventio...

  • wtmt 5 years ago

    IMO, UAPA and similar laws should be repealed and never be allowed to be enacted again.

nabla9 5 years ago

Hindu nationalism is just like any nationalism. It harms liberties.

India: Arrests of Activists Politically Motivated https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/09/16/india-arrests-activists-...

Under Modi, India's Press Not Free Anymore https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/02/world/asia/modi-india-pre...

Critics of India’s Modi Government Face Sedition Charges https://thediplomat.com/2020/03/critics-of-indias-modi-gover...

Is free speech under threat in Modi’s India? Activists, journalists, lawyers and academics are concerned that free speech in India is deteriorating (2017) https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2017/08/03/is-free-speech...

  • john4532452 5 years ago

    > Hindu nationalism is just like any nationalism.

    There is a fundamental difference Indian nationalism and other countries nationalism. Indian nationalism is all about bringing back the "varna system" which advocates stratification of society based on the birth and access to education is only allowed for the brahmins(priestly caste). This was the system implemented strictly before the Britishers arrived to India.

       No country to my knowledge does denies education to its own people in the name of nationalism.
       In contrast in other countries the nationalism is not about stratification of society or honoring privilege by birth.
    • sandworm101 5 years ago

      >> which advocates stratification of society based on the birth

      Not a unique to Indian nationalism. American nationalism is very similar. See the "birther" movement. Or the president's push to withdraw birthright citizenship, a concept that would deny far more than just education. Or the references to "anchor babies". The location of one's birthplace, and the birthplace of one's parents, is of fundamental importance in US nationalist movements just as in India.

      • oytis 5 years ago

        Birthright citizenship is pretty unique to America though. Nowhere in Europe you would find such a thing, although most people won't count Germany, France, Netherlands, Sweden etc. as human right violators.

        • baud147258 5 years ago

          Maybe I missed something or forgot how citizenship works here in France (since I learned how it is acquired as a student), but birthright citizenship seems pretty similar to what we have here

          • oytis 5 years ago

            Just checked the wiki, looks like France defines something called double jus soli, which means a person who was born in France to a parent who themselves is born in France (even though they might not be a French citizen) gets the citizenship.

            That's a bit closer to birthright citizenship that what we have in Germany, but nowhere as liberal as USA laws, which give citizenship to anyone born in the USA even if their parents entered the country one day before the birth and left next day after the birth. That is something that doesn't exist anywhere in Europe to my knowledge.

            • baud147258 5 years ago

              It seems I didn't look closely enough at the details, thanks for the clarification

          • eli_gottlieb 5 years ago

            France has a mixture of jus soli and jus sanguinis, like most countries. Pure jus soli, as in the American case, is in fact quite rare.

        • unishark 5 years ago

          Also Canada, Mexico, and almost all of South America. Only a few other countries elsewhere, none of them developed.

      • C1sc0cat 5 years ago

        Ironic given that Donald Trumps grandfather was an immigrant - and German immigrants where subject to discrimination.

        • pvaldes 5 years ago

          Rich immigrants and poor immigrants are seen often as totally different categories.

          • C1sc0cat 5 years ago

            Don't think Initially Donald's granddad was that rich.

            And to follow up German immigrants where not liked as the liked their beer and some where gasp Catholic

        • fetbaffe 5 years ago

          How is that ironic?

          • C1sc0cat 5 years ago

            Nativists campaigned against incomers from Europe

            • fetbaffe 5 years ago

              So basically you never become a native regardless how many generations you stay in a country, thus nationalism is valid point of view.

              • C1sc0cat 5 years ago

                I didn't say that :-)

                I was commenting on the use of nativism by a politician whose grandfather was an immigrant.

                Though over time some groups formerly seen as undesirables become honoury whites Irish German Catholics etc.

                It wasn't that long ago that having a catholic president Kennedy was seen as problematic

                • fetbaffe 5 years ago

                  Sure, but how is it ironic? That is what I'm trying to figure out.

                  • C1sc0cat 5 years ago

                    irony "a state of affairs or an event that seems deliberately contrary to what one expects and is often wryly amusing as a result."

    • slevin063 5 years ago

      Not discounting the negative effects of the nationalism, but I don't think caste system is behind the current rise of nationalism. The prime minister himself is from the lower caste.

      • kannanvijayan 5 years ago

        Would it surprise you to hear that there are many women in India who support for existing misogynistic aspects of traditional culture?

        It's hard for people to understand how deeply woven caste-based motivations are in Indian society. At a large scale it may seem like some globally stratified layer cake. On the ground, it devolves into regional tribes.

        The "caste associations" rural people associate themselves with in rural areas are loosely formed tribes of 10 thousand to 100-thousand strong members.

        The perspective of many who choose to be invested in this system - which is most people living in those areas (what else are you gonna do? not support your tribe? who else is gonna have your back if there's trouble?) - is one of trying to gain status for their caste/tribe over others.

        Caste rivalries are often regional, and localized.

        Identifying India's current PM as not coming from one of the well-recognized "higher castes" is really meaningless. It'd be sort of like saying "yeah, this politician is unlikely to be a hardline christian dominionist, he's a 7-th day adventist, which is clearly a minority sect".

        • slevin063 5 years ago

          I agree with you on all the points except the last and in no way I am saying the there are no caste based discrimination in India. In fact caste based discrimination and the effects of it is one of the main reasons of India being "developing country" forever, I think. My point is that the current rise of nationalism is not because of the caste system, but rather in spite of it. I see many people from lower caste(including my relatives) being active in the local rightwing politics and RSS.

        • Chris2048 5 years ago

          which women, and which "misogynistic aspects"?

      • john4532452 5 years ago

        > The prime minister himself is from the lower caste.

        This does not change anything. Modi is just a pawn. He does not have any original ideology, he is there for power.

        Look at the number of brahmins and non-brahmins in the key position in the BJP. Look at the analysis here https://theprint.in/politics/ambedkar-on-its-agenda-but-bjp-...

        If you are still not convinced, look at what "Subramanian swamy" had to say when every one in BJP party was changing their twitter profile last name to "chowkidar"(meaning soldier or protector). He said he is a brahmin and its brahmins duty to advice how the country should be run and not be a soldier as vedas consider brahmins as superior to all the other varnas.

        https://www.indiatoday.in/elections/lok-sabha-2019/story/can...

        The point is the ideology that is driving BJP is all about bringing back the privilege based on the birth.

        • arjun1296 5 years ago

          Subramanya Swamy is 81 yrs old. A person who has remnants and values of old-school of casteist thought.

          I don't expect him to be post-modernists egalitarian.

          However at the same it doesn't mean he can't say his casteist comments openly. ;)

          After all, its better if people say it openly so that they can be criticized for their casteist comment. The likes of him is politically insignificant as he is NOT competing in elections.

        • jagannathtech 5 years ago

          Subramanian Swamy always denounced birth based caste system and always said anyone with 3 qualities - knowledge, sacrifice, courage should be considered as a brahmin and he has also said in many places that as per this Dr.Ambedkar is a brahmin and Nehru is not.

          Don't just rely on Indian fake news media.

      • anuraj 5 years ago

        Modi himself added his trader community to backward caste for reaping benefits while he was running for CM of Gujarat using BJP govt at centre. Modh-Ghanchis are a middle caste which is a beneficiary of caste system and is by no means an OBC.

    • pratik661 5 years ago

      Do you have any evidence to back your premise that Indian nationalists want to bring back the varna system? That’s an extraordinary claim that requires sourcing.

      From what I’ve seen it’s like any other nationalist movement.

      • john4532452 5 years ago

        Yes. The BJP government is backed by the RSS and most of the members of the BJP party including Modi is former member of RSS. RSS is a religious organization supporting the varna system.

    • rusticpenn 5 years ago

      Hindu Nationalism and Indian Nationalism are not the same thing.

    • arjun1296 5 years ago

      Where and when did this govt deny education? Do you have any evidence or are you just grappling with straws here?

      • john4532452 5 years ago
        • arjun1296 5 years ago

          Isn't that the responsibility of the state-govt to ensure that people are educated?

          What is central-govt doing to "DENY" education and that based on "caste" ? I still didn't find any evidence.

          • john4532452 5 years ago

            The idea of the new policy of introducing public exams for the 5th and 8th grade is to discourage students to go to school. Once the govt school has the exams they are forced to fail few percentage of the students and very likely they will discontinue the school. This is the reason in the past till 9th students were promoted in tamilnadu which has the highest college goers because the students who were not performing in the mid school got a chance later.

            The important question is what is driving this educational policy. Its the belief of the vedas that for a society to function well not everyone should have the same opportunity and access to education. Everyone has duty based on the family they were born and should not be allowed to change.

    • ravibhatt 5 years ago

      You seem to know more about the natives it seems; where are you quoting this from?

      "Indian nationalism is all about bringing back the "varna system" " ---- You have done a Phd in the subject-- any links?

  • throwaway0a5e 5 years ago

    You're conflating nationalism with a cultural supremacy movement. They're similar to outsiders, they often overlap, but they are not necessarily the same thing.

  • staticautomatic 5 years ago

    The field of Political Science does not treat nationalism as inherently bad, nor does it use "nationalism" and "ethnic nationalism" interchangeably. There are a million real-life examples of even ethnic nationalism that people generally consider good.

  • naruvimama 5 years ago

    Hindu nationalism is certainly way different, it is an umbrella term that encompasses all Indic cultures, tradition and systems that have evolved for thousands of years.

    This is against a mostly one book, one god/no god, one agenda and one power centre ideology being enforced on the people - Marxism, Christianity, Islam, "Atheism", "Feminism"

    Especially in a country with a million gods and small unique communities, it falls on the government to protect them from ideologies with a track record for violence and genocide.

  • commoner 5 years ago

    This is correct.

    > Political liberalism in India is now under assault. The current right-of-center government, dominated by the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), appears intent on transforming India's pluralistic, open, and secular state into an ethnic and illiberal democracy. To that end it has sought to place ideologues in key governmental institutions, attempted to curtail academic freedoms at a leading university, and made efforts to curb an otherwise feisty mass media. A weak political opposition, which had in any case failed to demonstrate much mettle when in government prior to the BJP's 2014 electoral victory, now appears utterly incapable of stemming this illiberal tide. As a consequence, India's future as a liberal democracy appears to be at some risk.

    > Kumi Naidoo, the secretary-general of Amnesty International, takes a different view, decrying an official effort to "[crush] dissent by demonizing and criminalizing activists, lawyers, and journalists working for some of the poorest and most marginalized communities in India." Amnesty International India has itself been targeted: Its bank accounts have been frozen, and police in Bangalore have accused it of sedition.

    https://muse.jhu.edu/article/713724

    From the Journal of Democracy (Jan 2019)

  • apexkid 5 years ago

    This is all motivated reporting. India has such a strong and independent judicial system which does its job. If any charges are put incorrectly then courts will grant relief. India is democratic country.

    • xrisk 5 years ago

      Ah yes the very same independent judicial system whose last Chief Justice is now a member of parliament. yes sir, very independent indeed.

    • deskamess 5 years ago

      >India has such a strong and independent judicial system which does its job.

      Eh... no it does not. The Supreme Court has capitulated; it rubber stamps anything coming out of Modi Inc. Do you not follow whats going on?

      Why don't you address all of the issues that the parent poster bought up?

    • kikokikokiko 5 years ago

      After seeing what this organization did when Bolsonaro got elected here in Brazil, unfortunately I can not say I believe anything that comes out of it. It's a politically biased organization, therefore you always must take any stance they take with a lot of grains of salt.

    • sbmthakur 5 years ago

      According to AlJazeera, Afzal Guru is just a "Kashmiri separatist". I guess they missed the part where he was convicted for attacking the Indian parliament[1]. Interesting that Amnesty International questioned the way he was tried and punished[2].

      1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Indian_Parliament_attack

      2. https://www.amnesty.org/en/for-media/press-releases/india-ne...

      • xrisk 5 years ago

        Also interesting that they did not find a shred of evidence in that case. In fact the order mentioned that he was convicted to placate the “conscience of the nation”.

      • murukesh_s 5 years ago

        But Afzal was hanged when India was ruled by Congress. And all parties including Far left supported it. So that case cannot be used to measure judiciary sleeping with present government.

        • sbmthakur 5 years ago

          My comment did not talk about the judiciary. It was more about just calling Afzal Guru a separatist.

          I don't think the judiciary is sleeping with the government. In recent times, they have given verdicts like the decriminalization of homosexual relationships and abolishing of Triple Talaq. I do agree that they should be more proactive. One reason for them being a bit soft on the government is that the current government has stuff like NJAC in their arsenal, which threatens to dilute the power of the judiciary. While NJAC was declared unconstitutional by the SC some years back, the current leadership can still bring it back by mobilizing support for it.

david4532452 5 years ago

This discussion like most HN discussions are hijacked by extremist agenda pushers who keep throwing in out-of-context words like nationalism, caste, religion, etc irrelevantly. A simple search shows why Indian govt froze the bank accounts.

Amnesty International continues to violate Indian laws (FCRA) time and again by not disclosing their source of funds. They were investigated a decade ago by the previous government too for money laundering (for people crying hoarse on current government), and Amnesty International halted all it's work then too.

All foreign funding/donations needs to be approved based on FCRA act. Instead of obeying the laws, Amnesty channeled money through various private or other sister orgs, claiming it is remittances for services exported. They lost the case in the State courts couple of times and my guess is they didn't want to risk going to the Supreme court and lose again. So instead of complying with the law, it's time to spin the story against the Indian government.

https://www.deccanherald.com/national/linked-private-company...

https://www.moneycontrol.com/news/trends/current-affairs-tre...

quirmian 5 years ago

The slow judicial system is the biggest weapon that the government and other large entities with money have. Not everyone can afford to put their lives on hold for 3 years while a court case slowly winds its way up to a judge.

  • deskamess 5 years ago

    Its worse now. The Supreme Court Of India has capitulated; it is, for all practical purposes, in the hands of Modi & Shah. An institution that should check unwarranted excesses is looking the other way.

    States that are not run by Modi Inc are in a lot of trouble. That's the point though... conformance.

  • johnnydoe9OP 5 years ago

    Toyota recently pulled out of the country due to ineffective bureaucracy and that's when they're pushing for more manufacturing. In cases like these there's no way for them to fight if they're against you.

  • sumedh 5 years ago

    > The slow judicial system is the biggest weapon that the government and other large entities with money have.

    This has been going on for decades, no govt wants to expand the judicial system for some reason.

nl 5 years ago

I'm not sure people are aware, but most countries find Amnesty International annoying.

My own country - Australia - has been frequently criticised by Amnesty (eg [1]).

Amnesty's job is to call out human right violations. Citizens of a country may very well say "oh, we don't like these asylum seekers, so we will keep voting for the government that put these laws in place" (in Australia's case). But it isn't Amnesty's job to look at justifications, only violations.

A robust, functional democracy should have space to allow critics, and while it might be unrealistic to expect the government to welcome that criticism, a government shouldn't use its power to act in reprisal against critics.

Some people in this discussion should consider this carefully. It's one thing to disagree with critics, but quite another to approve of reprisals against those critics.

[1] https://www.dw.com/en/australia-pm-rejects-amnesty-internati...

roenxi 5 years ago

Interesting. Does the Indian government have a legitimate complaint?

There is a very wide spectrum of possibilities here. They range from the Indian government being horrible, through localised corruption, through the government having very legitimate concerns about foreign interference, through to AI India being corrupt and/or in league with western intelligence agencies.

  • ravibhatt 5 years ago

    Previous govt had huge concerns as well. PM Singh said "The atomic energy programme has gone into difficulties because these NGOs [non-governmental organisations], mostly I think based in the United States, don't appreciate the need for our country to increase the energy supply."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-17150953

    Also, Important to note that some of the changes to laws for NGOs were done during congress led UPA govt as well. It is just that changes to laws have now been highlighted more by mainstream media.

  • sssk 5 years ago

    The government's perspective. Apparently, the bank account that was frozen violated money laundering laws and was upheld by a court. https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/business/india-business/...

    • deskamess 5 years ago

      The govt has been tackling entities that do not conform with their views. Conformance is their objective.

      • setum 5 years ago

        The government has been tracking foreign funding, as it should. There is no shortage of examples where external government agencies (mostly western) have tried to influence internal politics or topple governments (mostly 3rd world).

      • arjun1296 5 years ago

        Government needs to ensure whether NGOs are working as per there declared mandate and need to ensure their mandatory legal compliance requirements. And it isn't "Conformance to their objective" is mandatory legal compliance in a democracy.

  • dalbasal 5 years ago

    It's not a question of legitimate complaint. They didn't complain, they froze assets and halted the organisation's activity.

    The question is whether or not the Indian government's actions are legitimate, and whether or not their stated reasons are true. On the later, it seems to be a clear no.

  • factorialboy 5 years ago

    In this particular case it is money laundering. These NGOs receive foreign funds without Govt. approvals and the state is slapping the law on them.

  • sbmthakur 5 years ago

    Government agencies have filed official complaints against them in recent years. But it's not clear what came out of it.

    https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/amnesty-received-rs-46...

shadowprofile77 5 years ago

Is it just my skewed perception of more or less recent reporting about India's politics or is the supposed largest democracy on Earth slowly turning into an authoritarian nationalist state to a degree it hasn't seen in many years. Honestly curious, not a rhetorical question, in case anyone can clarify this with better information or first-hand understanding.

  • srean 5 years ago

    As an Indian residing in India this certainly feels so.

    Things have become bad enough that people self-censor. People have been arrested for sharing jokes about politicians to their personal friends over email or social media. Some have been heckled and beaten up. Such people have no recourse. Even if the local govt pretends to act, the perpetrators immediately gets a bail, because the courts are very much in bed with the politics, more so at the lower courts.

    Made up and nonbailable charges have been slapped on university professors who have criticized the government. They are not tried on the usual court but handled by a special anti-terrorism body called the NIA that has special powers and provisions to secrecy that ordinary courts do not have.

    https://scroll.in/article/959082/i-cant-counter-state-propag...

    Political opponents are harassed by income tax raids even when nothing much come put of the raids. Its just an intimidation tactic where people with government authorization tear your apartment apart and grab documents that they can hold on to as long as they want for the harassments value.

  • SpicyLemonZest 5 years ago

    I think it's less recent reporting. I don't know a ton about the country's recent history, but India was very much founded as a nationalist state, and the PM position was held by the same family for about 50 years after independence.

  • jagannathtech 5 years ago

    A fake narrative being built against India. To be honest everything boils down to religious issues. The dominant two world religions see India as an unfinished conquest. But this is not politically correct view so all other weasel issues are created/spread. Always follow the funding.

Karupan 5 years ago

I saved this in my bookmarks a while back when reading up on this topic - the alleged Indian Intelligence Bureau (IB) report published in 2014 [0]

[0] https://www.scribd.com/document/229493571/IB-Report-NGO

  • intended 5 years ago

    Hey! someone else has that document saved. It is absolutely hilarious and tragic.

    When it came out, I read the report and realized that it was a hack job, and sure enough - not one person knew its contents, despite the news channels and whatsapp declaring NGOs as enemy number 1.

    I've commented elsewhere in this thread how that report says that writing hand written notes is an attempt to evade scanners, and that using google maps and adding pins to it is evidence of near super villain levels of plotting to end India's coal power dreams - by Greenpeace.

  • djsumdog 5 years ago

    Ohio State is mentioned in this. Are there any other sources on their involvement?

lambainsaan 5 years ago

This is a big big news. Very sad that Amenesty is halting its work. It could be the case that Amenesty really had some problems in its Indian org, I am not a judge, not going to jump to any conclusions, but if the BJP led government is really trying to curb the work that Amenesty is doing by using central agencies that's very very scary.

I feel India is going on a wrong track, it was doing okay in regards to Democratic values until Modi came to power, and since then it is on a downwards trajectory in that department. I have not seen any media house putting out any news which condemn decision that Modi makes, all are just praising Modi for god knows what reason. This ain't even a news in India, they are all running behind Bollywood celebs.

I feel Indian people are one-two generation(s) away, most of the Indian people can't really digest democracy at the moment.

anuraj 5 years ago

Indian Hindu Nationalist government has now removed all garbs and is a full on fascism. They have scant regard for law or constitution. They have absolute control over all the 4 pillars of democracy and is effectively controlling popular opinion.

ahiknsr 5 years ago

some useful links for more context:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/07/21/indias-ngo-backlash/ https://www.firstpost.com/india/kudankulam-protests-3-ngos-l...

ashleshbiradar 5 years ago

this needs to be looked with the recent updates to FCRA rules, which completely cripple civil societies.

https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/icj-says-fcra-bill-in...

https://scroll.in/article/973909/behind-the-new-rules-for-ng...

known 5 years ago

Since whistle blower protection in India is inadequate/inefficient proliferation of TRUTH is stopped in the name of loyalty, discipline, patriotism, job security, national security, intellectual property etc https://archive.is/VWFSC

azifali 5 years ago

BJP the ruling party is sliding India into totalitarianism.

  • swarnie_ 5 years ago

    A good chunk of the world has shifted that way since 2000, its actually baffling.

    • sumedh 5 years ago

      Maybe because social media helps demagogues spread their message?

    • mschuster91 5 years ago

      "Thank" 9/11 for that one. The reactions to this attack was the first crack in the dam of human rights, and unscrupulous/authoritarian politicians dismantled it until unrecognizability over the last decades.

    • thinkingemote 5 years ago

      I suggest you become unbaffled. Knowing the reasons why will help everyone have better lives and help revert things.

      On one hand being baffled may be a symptom of not seeing certain things and on the other it maybe a reaction to seeing things and feeling powerless.

      I would caution against simple answers to things though. Me right, them wrong is never a useful explanation.

    • rmrfrmrf 5 years ago

      It turns out that not everyone appreciates being turned into an economic client state of the US. Nationalism is a direct reaction meant to (whether effective or not) reaffirm sovreignty.

      • f154hfds 5 years ago

        Uhh what? How is the US buying goods/services from India infringing on their sovereignty?

        • swarnie_ 5 years ago

          Don't worry too much, most Indians i meet online don't like my country either.

        • rmrfrmrf 5 years ago

          Shipping India's able-bodied workforce to the US and driving the rest of the local economy with low-wage factory jobs absolutely hampers a country's ability to govern and develop itself. The threat of pulling manufacturing out of a country becomes too great and forces governments to bend to the will of foreign investment.

          • gruez 5 years ago

            >Shipping India's able-bodied workforce to the US [...]

            I wonder why the blame is on the US or American companies, which offer better working conditions and pay, rather than Indian companies for not being competitive enough, or the expats for "defecting" from their home country.

            • rmrfrmrf 5 years ago

              Because the laws and treaties that enable it were enacted by the US government.

              • gruez 5 years ago

                And what about the laws and treaties that enable enacted by the indian government? If they wanted to they could do what the soviet union did and impose borders controls to prevent indian engineers from escaping india.

                • rmrfrmrf 5 years ago

                  That's when your US-based firms step in and say "stop or we're tanking your economy".

screye 5 years ago

I mostly agree with them, but

> transparency in the government, more recently for accountability of the Delhi police and the Government of India regarding the grave human rights violations in Delhi riots and Jammu & Kashmir

all of these have been issues with every Indian Govt. for decades. I don't see anything about 2021 that would be a straw that'd break a camel's back.

The FRCA too has been the favorite tool for every govt. from 1976, for harassing NGOs. The changes to the law itself aren't as terrible.

> The NGO/FRCA license now expires in 5 years instead of being permanent

Not a terrible idea in a functioning society. In India, it becomes a tool getting fresh bribes out of groups and trapping them in bureaucracy.

> Less than 50% of foreign funds can be used for administrative expenses

IMO, really smart change. I personally know of Indian NGOs that primarily serve as money laundering mechanisms. On paper, doesn't seem like a bad change at all.

> The law now extends to trade/student/workers' unions, women’s wing of a political party, farmers’ organisations, youth organisations based on caste, community, religion, language and organizations that engage in strikes/ blockages/ protests / political action.

Some of these changes are sensible. unions and youth organizations in India are well known to be tools of political parties. If a law had to be applied, it has to at least be consistent.

The part of orgs. that engage in protest is more divisive, especially with the discussion around foreign funding to control opinion becoming a huge thing in the US.

Should outside funding be allowed to facilitate political opinion in a nation? To me, the answer isn't that clear. Both sides of the argument have strong points in favor.

______________

I am generally averse to expanding Govt. power, especially given how corrupt every Indian one has been. The FRCA was terrible, and like the patriot act is something that only serves to expand state power.

That being said, to spin it as a "hindu nationalist" initiative is political posturing.

Anyone who believes that Indian Media's pro-ruling party agenda, religious riots, sedition charges or harassment of activists started or even peaked in the Modi Govt., has been willfully ignorant about the continuing violation of freedoms that Indian Govts. have been part of since Indira Gandhi in the 70s.

______________

In the spirit of transparency, I have an incredibly low opinion of both journalists and activists in India. The complete lack of nuance in how they approach the issues they champion is a glaring example of it. The worst aspect, is that the most egregious ones get widespread coverage in respected western outlets.

Western thought leaders have time and again demonstrated an incredibly limited understanding on complex non-western societies. Whether that be in Africa, China, SEA or India. However, english, open-ness of Indian society, post colonial guilt and its size lead to the most egregious cases being in India.

Lastly, can't be pointing out problems without suggesting solutions. Recently, one of the few journalists I respect immensely (Shekhar Gupta) has started an online-only subscription based media house called the Print. I have found them to be the closest thing to fair journalism in India. The Caravan is another subscription based media outlet that is well respected among my peers (whom I respect) although I personally I am less impressed by it.

kcsomisetty 5 years ago

I read in another thread. reproducing the comments here for balanced point of view.

"If more than 20% of your funds goes to administrative expenses (office supplies, stationary, tea/coffee, misc), you know there is something shady. Satyam computers, did the same thing, created fake employees, posted huge expenses under admin category for almost 5 years. Later it was found that they were laundering money for YSR from overseas, and went bust and was later acquired by TechMahindra for paisa on the rupee.

Amnesty india is probably in knee deep shit and exiting before anything comes to light."

  • sct202 5 years ago

    In the US, <15% admin expense is considered good for a charity, and in the US admin expense also include rent, business services (accounting, legal, IT), and leadership costs (for a small org, the leader might be categorized as management but actually be providing services).

LordAtlas 5 years ago

Unfortunately, the BJP's notorious troll army (also known as the "IT cell") has invaded HN also, and pop up whenever our government's misdeeds are discussed.

Remember that this is the same govt that has restricted the speech of the state of Jammu and Kashmir by cutting off their Internet access completely and later, restricting them to a mere 2G connection and to "approved" websites. [1]

It modified the UAPA law to basically designate any Indian citizen a "terrorist" and hold them indefinitely without bail. And used the law to arrest and detain people protesting against a controversial law. [2]

The same government that set up a "donation fund" called "PM Cares", ostensibly to help people affected by Covid-19 and lockdown, but then refused to divulge details under our RTI - Right to Information Act - claiming it was not a public authority. [3]

But then exempted this fund from the same draconian FCRA rules [4]

Oh, if that's not enough, this government also passed a law exempting political parties from scrutiny in foreign funding under the FCRA. Want to guess which is the richest political party in India now? Google it. [5]

Did I mention they also introduced "electoral bonds" to allow anonymous corporate funding for political parties? [6]

Amnesty International was drawing too much attention to the human rights abuses of the government, so the state has come down with all its might on it.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_Kashmir

[2] https://www.thequint.com/news/law/no-bail-in-uapa-cases-rega...

[3] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/coronavirus-pm-cares-...

[4] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/pm-cares-fund-gets-fc...

[5] https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/lok-sabha-passes-bill...

[6] https://www.newindianexpress.com/opinions/2019/dec/01/time-t...

throwaway4good 5 years ago

Also surpression in Kashmir seems to have escalated over the past year with removal of local governance and blockade of internet access.

It is not a good combination: Escalating human rights abuses, an economy in freefall, pandemic, border skirmishes with China, nationalism, crackdown on ethnic minorities ...

dharmach 5 years ago

Amnesty international and other Western NGOs are moral sticks of rich countries to browbeat erstwhile colonies for not maintaining high living standards post exploitation.

  • djsumdog 5 years ago

    NGOs typically do a lot of harm. They're the means by which high income countries enforce policies that keep developing countries in debt to them, in order to extract resources.

    The 2011 book "The Dictator's Handbook" does a good job of detailing how this works.

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