Airbnb: A fan legally constitutes an air conditioner
reddit.comThere is a saying that goes something like: when you play with snakes, don't be surprised if you get bitten.
When you book AirBnb vs a hotel you are signalling that you value cost over predictability and oversight. Those hotel fees and regulations are there for a reason. With AirBnb, one of the reasons they can offer stuff cheaply is that they are arbitraging regulation and oversight.
If you really need to work, book a hotel that serves business clients.
I view this complaint in the same manner I view people who book travel on RyanAir and complain about poor service. The whole point of RyanAir is about seeing how much misery people will tolerate in exchange for a cheap airfare.
This assumes you're okay with the "hotel experience".
Personally, I dislike hotels. I don't like carpets or elevators or garish faux-marble baths. I don't like being in the middle of a city next to tourist traps or some busy downtown. I don't like being on the 23th floor, shut away from nature. I don't like staying in a place that is just a bedroom and this weird tiny desk that has a big TV on it so it's not usable for anything. I find most hotels clinical, synthetic and alienating. There are exceptions, of course; there are some great boutique hotels out there. But they are far apart and usually out of my price range.
When booking a trip, I choose Airbnb because I can pick a place that was made for living in. You know, the way you do at home. Multiple rooms, a kitchen, maybe some outdoor space, all in a practical location. Airbnb also allows me to pick features I could never get at a hotel, such as a private pool or private parking. And it allows me to scale it up and rent a whole place for a family or group of friends.
People make the mistake of thinking that Airbnb is about competing with hotels by offering lower prices on the same service and that somehow the lower price is because "it's just someone's home", but it really isn't the same service at all. If a hotel could offer what I could get with Airbnb, I'd be all over it.
Then ending up with a room that is conditioned for the locals, and not hotel-grade, should be perfectly acceptable too, and Airbnb and their partners are doing it right. Nothing to see here.
But with hotels, too, you can end up with something that isn't to your satisfaction, contrary to how it's presented in the listing and contrary to your expectations. Hotels are likely to be more consistent here, but there's never any guarantee.
One difference is in the ability to rectify such issues. Since Airbnb is a middleman who doesn't own the property, and the host is potentially not able to be physically present (e.g. it's a short-term sublet while the host is on a trip, as opposed to a permanent Airbnb), the blame may technically lie with the host, but Airbnb's platform is also responsible. Airbnb can't pretend they're merely a passive hosting platform for hosts, and needs to tread more carefully in handling such disputes.
I don‘t know if there are exact numbers regarding your statement, but booking a house or flat vs booking a hotel
a) is not necessarily cheaper and in many cities like berlin can actually be more expensive, especially regarding the top class flats
b) is more a matter of personal taste in my experience, as renting a vacation apartment tends to be a more diverse and self reliant experience than booking a hotel room
I've booked $1,000+/night AirBnB's. You almost always get a more neighborhood feel, more interesting experience.
However, when I am working, I ALWAYS book a hotel. I just want a place to work and sleep, etc. AirBnB's are less predictable, and when you are on the road and only in the room for the night and up early - no sense is even dealing with the various check in / out procedures etc. And yes, there are some hosts who don't get it, but most do.
I agree on some senses, but AirBnB often resembles hotels more than renting out a spare room nowadays.
Sure if you're booking an unknown, new, cheapo listing you could get anything. But large amounts of the high rating offerings are essentially hotels without a reception desk nowadays.
AirBnB had changed drastically in that regard.
The version I've heard is: you mess with the bull, you get the horns
I will only ever book an Airbnb again if: - very long stays - stays with a huge group
My experiences with Airbnb are 90% bad and it keeps getting worse. Also, hotels are usually cheaper, esoeyif you stay 4 or less days
So apparently it had A/C in bedrooms but not other areas. Host suggested leaving doors open and having a fan redirect air from bedroom(s) to living area. Looks like guests were looking to work while on a trip, so wanted and expected A/C throughout.
I can see both sides. On the one hand it did have A/C —just not central A/C. On the other hand it was (they claim 100F) and were trying to “work from home.” On the other hand it was $60/night equivalent...
It’s kinda borderline. What would judge Judy decide? Split the diff?
How is this borderline? Central HVAC in homes is extremely uncommon in developing countries. Standalone AC units for rooms other than bedrooms are also quite uncommon (depends on the economic class of the householder). To say that there is no air conditioning because there is no air conditioning in the bathroom (and this is one of the specific complaints from the OP's reddit thread) is extremely entitled. Not everywhere is the richest country on earth.
> Central HVAC in homes is extremely uncommon in developing countries.
In Europe too.
Nobody complained of no A/C in the bathrooms. You've misread Airbnb's social media agent's misguided reply. I'm the OP's roommate and I've clarified things at https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/d1i53n/its_10...
> So apparently it had A/C in bedrooms but not other areas.
> Host suggested leaving doors open and having a fan
> redirect air from bedroom to living area. Looks like
> guests were looking to work while on a trip, so wanted and
> expected A/C throughout.
To be fair to the host, it's not their fault that the app didn't have the ability to track which rooms did or didn't have air conditioning. On hearing their problem the host also offered a reasonable solution to help them work in their apartment (something the apartment is not supposed to be used for).
> I can see both sides. On the one hand it did have A/C just
> not central A/C. On the other hand it was (they claim
> 100F) and we’re trying to “work from home.”
It wasn't the host's fault that they wanted to work in the apartment, neither was it their fault it was so hot. I've stayed in many places all over the world and half the time you're lucky if the AC works at all.
> It’s kinda borderline. What would judge Judy decide? Split
> the diff?
It would probably go through remediation, but if it went further it would just get kicked out. The most questionable part is their cancellation policy, not the AC description.
Not having the ability to specify 'Partial A/C' is exactly my suggestion to Airbnb.
The "reasonable solution" didn't work - we waited longer than what the host claimed it would take to make the place "cool as a fridge".
Why would we not be supposed to work in the apartment?
Right, it wasn't anyone's hard fault, so if I were the host, I'd charge 3 nights' worth and leave the situation with a clean conscience and quite a bit of cash for spending 30 minutes.
See my detailed reply at https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/d1i53n/its_10... (I'm the OP's roommate).
I'm kind of leaning towards AirBnB, because it sounds like the travelers didn't bother with any diligence, which is puzzling when having AC was so critical to their trip.
I think it's reasonable to expect AirBnB hosts, like any seller, to try to bend the truth or hide inconveniences in their listing, and it's up to you, the buyer, to exercise caution, read reviews, or ask the host.
That said, if hotels try that kind of BS, I complain until they refund me or upgrade my room, which has worked 10/10 times. This is one area where hotels have a clear advantage over AirBnB.
>I think it's reasonable to expect AirBnB hosts, like any seller, to try to bend the truth or hide inconveniences in their listing
If we all pitched in and shamed dishonest sellers (to the point where there was a culture of honesty), we could all have the reliability of hotels without any of the costs of management. It's like how one of the reasons third world countries are so bad is that there is no social trust.
That's exactly what is happening through the review system. I find AirBnB reviews to be much more reliable than say Amazon or other easily gamed places. You can and should shame bad hosts and bad guests. You can't see the review text until after both wrote a review so there is no fear of revenge.
AirBnB hosts have an incentive to NOT bend the truth and instead manage expectations in the listing. In the long term it's better to not have a guest at all than to have a guest give you even a 4 star review. AirBnB may delist you at 4.3 avg and you need 4.8 to be superhost, so you really only want satisfied guests.
Why couldn't they just work in the bedrooms? There's AC there.
Because there was no "laptop-friendly workspace" in the bedrooms. The host claimed that in the listing, and the only thing that remotely qualified was the dining table in the kitchen.
Context: I'm the OP's roommate. See my detailed reply at https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/d1i53n/its_10....
>So apparently it had A/C in bedrooms but not other areas. Host suggested leaving doors open and having a fan redirect air from bedroom to living area. Looks like guests were looking to work while on a trip, so wanted and expected A/C throughout.
But was the listing for the whole house, or a bedroom?
Like I said, split the diff. It wasn’t outright deception but it also wasn’t up front about the totality. It didn’t explicitly say either it only had AC in bedrooms nor did it claim to have Central AC.
Plus it was $60/night. Don’t expect Hilton class accommodations for 60/night.
agree 100 percent. Split it. keep the customers happy, but the owners need to make a little too. Fair is fair.
The OP was charge $500 for what was essentially 30 minute visit. That's just evil.
As is ever the case, dig in deeper and oh look we see the apartment did have A/C as advertised.
https://old.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/d1i53n/its_10...
Copy paste in case it gets deleted:
""" I'm OP's roommate and I was involved in this. We booked the place on short notice and came to see it the same day. It was advertised as a "penthouse" but in reality it was simply the top floor of a pretty decrepit ~50+ yo building, with bars on every window, and a filthy "pool". This is the view from the "penthouse".
Contrary to what Airbnb says in the screenshot, there was no "A/C" of any kind in the bathrooms (no, not even fans). The only A/C units were in the bedrooms, and they were small, sized for bedrooms. The host showed up and said that if we let the A/C in the bedrooms run for 20 minutes with the doors open and the fan strategically placed, the living room and kitchen would be "cold like a fridge".
We let it run for 30 minutes and were still sweating after that. Told him we couldn't stay because we work from home and the heat was just unbearable in the daytime during this hot season.
What pissed me off:
The host refused to refund us anything (which is why we reached out to Airbnb). Airbnb refunded ~USD 300, so the host took USD 480 from us for essentially visiting the place for 30 minutes. That's a $1000/hour occupation... pretty lucrative. Yes, we wasted their time, and an opportunity for someone else to book it, so I'd be totally fine with paying the nightly rate (USD 60) for even two nights. But not for over a week. It's just not fair by any stretch of the imagination. (Note that it's the week before Mexico's Independence Day, and the host bragged that the place will get occupied very soon if we don't book. Also, we booked same-day, and left same-day. How Airbnb considers that is inconveniencing the host USD 480, baffles me.)
Airbnb's rude, STFU, response:
This is the last that can be said on the subject.
This seems to be part of the training they give to support agents, because I saw the same phrasing in the famous How I Got Banned for Life from AirBnB post:
we consider this matter closed and will no longer reply to any inquiries regarding your account
The fact that Airbnb doesn't have anything more nuanced than "Yes A/C", "No A/C". How about "partial A/C"? How hard is it to implement that, Airbnb? It's one thing to have central A/C or heating, and a very different thing to have a heater in one room or a fan in another. """
I won't delete it.
On the other hand, when an act of god occurs, airbnb holds the host completely responsible.
My wife and I own an airbnb (with a/c!). At midnight one evening, the a/c went out due to a mechanical failure. The temperature in the texas heat rose to 80 degrees in our condo. Our guests called us to complain.
We couldnt find any techs at that time of night (and at 1am we tried!), but had one come in at 8am the next morning - and it was fixed by 10am.
The guests asked for a refund from airbnb based on breach of contract...and airbnb agreed, saying our unit did not match what we had advertised. No matter that we've had over 600 very positive reviews in the past 5 years.
Maybe we owed the guests a refund despite trying to solve the issue as best we could. But seeing the internal inconsistency of this article angers me (our unit does have two ceiling fans!)
How do you see it any other way than that you owe them a refund? Have you ever tried to stay in a hotel room that is 80?
I’m open to that option - and I can see it’s worth. My main point was Airbnb’s inconsistency. There is absolutely no incentive to rectify a stay if they will just punish you anyway.
And yes, I’ve stayed in many rooms 80 and above. Not ideal. But open a window and throw on a fan.
I could see getting a partial refund instead of a full one.
Otherwise, why even try to find an a/c tech at night, if you know that it won't make a difference?
So, you'd be happy if another guest decided to leave at 2am one morning and pay you only 50%? You're charging a nightly rate, not an hourly rate.
You're arguing a different point. The refund is because the beach of contract was only for a specified time. A total refund provides no incentive to attempt to rectify the situation.
Does that matter? Because there was no work around anyway. Sure they tried to find an AC tech, but ... haven't, so no AC in 80 F (26.6C).
A partial refund would incentivise we-tried-our-best problem solving.
try 90. if it's 80 degrees i rejoice and turn the aircon off...
How much of a refund did they ask for, and how much did they get?
Before that stay (I'm the OP's roommate), we stayed at another apartment that had 0.5Mbps Internet instead of the claimed 10Mbps, no hot water, no computer desks when there were desks in the photos, no trash cans - for the first 3 to 5 days until all these issues got fixed through us bugging the building's management. All Airbnb was willing to refund was 10% of the nightly cost, times some number of nights, which amounted to USD 57. That was for a $2100/mo apartment.
This is intentionally misleading. Sure, "legally" it might be accurate , but is that what a customer would be expecting if a listing says the accommodation has air conditioning? AirBnB should provide accurate representations of accommodation, regardless of the legal definition. The listings are not legal documents - they exist to inform customers what they will be getting for their money. And if AirBnB knowingly misleads customers (despite adhering to legal definitions) then they could (in some countries) be liable under consumer protection laws.
The accommodation had A/C, just not in every room. I've rented AirBnB's like this. You are out all day, come home, turn on AC in bedrooms and go to sleep. Not everyone puts AC into their kitchen, dining room, living room, bathrooms etc etc.
You are going to sue AirBnB over this?
Ah didn't realise full context in this specific case. I was referring only to "a fan legally constitutes an aircon". So, if the only thing in an AirBnB is a fan, saying it has aircon is misleading.
The point here is that this guest is misleading everyone and the media is eating it up. Airbnb says that the hosts description of the place was reasonable. It had AC. It just didn't have it in every room the guest wanted. This is not a "fan is AC" - and airbnb never said that, this (spoiled) guest did. What airbnb is saying is some rooms have AC is AC. While that could be argued, the headline should reflect that.
If you're just reading the headline easy to get it wrong. But these "outrage" stories often have another side.
No. The Airbnb rep said EXACTLY that, as seen in the screenshot.
Context: I'm the OP's roommate. See my detailed reply at https://www.reddit.com/r/digitalnomad/comments/d1i53n/its_10....
See also https://law.stackexchange.com/questions/44524/can-a-fan-be-c...
See also https://airhostsforum.com/t/do-fans-count-as-airconditioning...
From the Airbnb message: > “This is the last that can be said on the subject.”
Why would a customer service representative be allowed to write something so smarmy and condescending?
As a customer, this seems out of line.
As someone who has worked in customer service, and observed customer service workers at my company, it seems completely reasonable, especially when dealing with entitled people like the OP and his roommate (from other comments).
That's how Airbnb agents are trained. It's exactly the kind of phrase used in the famous "How I Got Banned for Life from AirBnB" post:
> Additionally, we consider this matter closed and will no longer reply to any inquiries regarding your account.
Source: https://medium.com/@jacksoncunningham/digital-exile-how-i-go...
My first and last experience with AirBnB was a lack of AC, fan, or anything in a very hot, humid home rental in Santa Monica last year for a month straight during an abnormally hot (go figure) summer. I had to find/invest in as large a box fan I could find, which I left for the next poor bastard.
Never again. My fault? Perhaps, but still, never again. Thanks for the memories AirBnB.
AirBnB is a monopoly in an unregulated market. It can do whatever it pleases with little recourse. What are you going to do? Leave. Great, some other sucker will take the bait.
In an unregulated market, they make whatever rules make them the most profit. I quit AirBnb 3 years ago when a $400/night place in NY clearly engaged in false advertisement by stating the wrong room size. It had pungent smell and generally was a hell hole. AirBnB would not refund. That’s the last I ever made a booking to AirBnB.
I really hope governments step up their game and bring some sanity. AirBnB as a monopoly is wrecking havoc to many cities. It’s like a virus.
I needed to report an airbnb that was having someone else who's not the host on airbnb site run it. So I was staying in the place with a person that they ran no background check on. They only allow you to make a report from a pre selected list of possible complaints and support wasn't any help. The system was setup to prevent the user from reporting problems that they cannot easily solve.
Airbnb is just one little step above hopping on craigslist and finding a room.
I had a similar situation with vrbo. The ac was broken and the host installed a makeshift "ac" system that didn't even cool the room it was in. This was in Vegas with temps way above 100. I didn't stay there and they only refunded me 1/3 the cost. I'm waiting for the chargeback to come through.
Another time in Mexico at the Marriott their "ac" would not go below 73 or so. It was still pretty warm. That time I got fucked.
Another time I stayed at a holiday inn outside DC with temps well into the 90s. The whole floor had the ac turned off. They said they couldn't turn it on. It was late so we suffered for one night but then hotels.com moved us to another hotel (I had silver membership).
Another time I stayed at an airbnb in Amsterdam and the ceiling fan was considered ac. It wasn't that hot so that wasn't a big deal and I didn't mind in that case.
Basically, if you want ac you're taking a big chance staying at an airbnb, vrbo, Marriott, or other hotel. It's a big issue both in and out of the us. There should be regulations. If the temperature can't be regulated to 65 - 68F, sleeping temperatures, then it can't be considered ac. Of course, without regulations it can even if it doesn't actually cool any space down. Scam artists are everywhere.