Merrell Trail Glove Failures and Minimal Running in a Communist Shoe
blatanterror.comI really liked the Merrill hikers I started buying about 10 years ago. I wore out about 4 pair over the course of about 6 years. Then they quit making them and the next time I tried to buy a pair of Merrill's none of them were near as good.
There were a lot of discussions on a backpacking forum I belong to about this and the universal consensus came to be that Merrill was no longer a shoe we could recommend. As they got more popular their quality receded and I and others really mourned that.
Before we started buying Merrill's we bought aftermarket insoles for our shoes and many of us are back to doing that again. But you can do that with a lot less costly shoe and Merrill offers no real advantages right now over some of those cheaper shoes.
Selling a cheaper made shoe for the same premium price may have increased their profits a bit in the short term, but that cost them a huge amount of good will.
You cannot fool hikers or runners with inferior quality and they don't care what your logo looks like. Reputations rise and fall with them and Merrill has lost theirs.
Agreed. I've had one of their Trail Gloves and while I loved what they did with the design and fit of it, the quality was very lackluster. Holes started to appear within 2 months of very light use, and it had only gotten worse after that. Shame.
second to that. I had many pairs of Merrills. The last pair lasted ~6 months, and the interior fabric had torn apart and the padding was entirely ruined. I don't even exercise that hard, and I don't pronate. the sole wear was fine, but the uppers were ruined.
I've had linings wear through after a couple of weeks and a sole became half-detached around the same time.
Pretty shocking quality but what brand hasn't gone the same way?
I’m sad to hear my recent bad Merrills we’re not a one-off. I know people who swear by Keen, but I can’t stand the toe box. Might have to try to get used to it for the next pair.
I bought a pair of Keen's after I quit Merrill. They lasted a long time, close to two years of pretty heavy use and gripped very well, but they needed an aftermarket insole right out of the box and cost about $140 or more. They were good shoes but were never close to as comfortable as the old Merrills.
This is the trend with all Merrell's as far as I can tell. I had the same experience with the Trail Gloves as OP had. Which sucks, because Merrell could have been a good business for decades if they hadn't moved to the model of cutting costs and fucking customers to exploit brand loyalty biases.
You can't fool hikers and runners for very long, but you can fool people who want to be hikers and runners, since the shoes mostly sit in the closet.
Have you found the "new" Merrill?
No. There's no real consensus on that on the forums either.
My current pair of hikers are "RedHead Caliber" from Bass Pro and they cost about $50.
They're pretty close to the Merrill's I used to get as far as fit and comfort right out of the box and I was impressed with that. I didn't need to get aftermarket insoles or break them in. The soles are soft, similar to the Merrill's I liked and they grip good, and so far the waterproofing has held up after getting them wet about a dozen times (not soaked, just splashed wet) but I've only had them for about 6-7 weeks.
I don't expect they'll hold up as good as the Merrill's I used to buy but I can buy two pair and a good lunch for the same cost so it might work out just as good. So far I like them a lot.
Keen has been my go to for hiking and labor footwear. The quality reminds me of the Merrill gear I'd get in the early aughts. I'm not a runner though, so I can't speak to that aspect, but in the mountains and on the flats (and in snow and ice) they've been great to me.
I run relatively regularly these days. My journey of running started with a marathon. I went from nothing to marathon in 6 months, with lots of training, weight loss (healthily because I still love to eat), and stamina increases. But after the marathon, it took over a week to walk normally again. Long runs sucked, and I really began to hate running. Running shoes were killing me, and I hated the idea that the shoe was there to help cushion the foot fall.
Then a friend encouraged me to try vibrams. And suddenly I fell in love with running again. I have huge calves, and these helped tone them a lot more, but now my strike is mid-front, and it’s comfortable to go 4-6 miles (though I struggle keeping pace with my dog).
We have a wonderful suspension system built into our bodies, but it only works correctly when applied correctly. We do not strike the ground the same when running as when walking. And Vibrams taught me quickly to strike differently (especially if I wanted to avoid really sore heels). The springiness of running on our feet transfers to our ankels to our knees to our hips to our back. I’m not an expert, and I know others can run with a rear strike, but for my body shape and what I’ve learned to run with, the front strike was important and I have Vibram FF to thank for it!
i love low drop shoes for normal day to day wear - i hate feeling padding under my feet (original chucks) but i wore vibrams for 6 months and got to about 6 miles on em before i gave up out of pain on my tarsals and metatarsals. if you're running on cement (which most of us are) you just can't do it in vibrams. i still toe strike but in regular trainers.
I run regularly on cement with my vibrams. You have to build up to it, and you can get minute stress fractures in your foot while getting to that level. Traditional shoes protect your feet from so much of the stress that most people aren't physically prepared to just switch to a minimalist shoe.
My friend, the company you need to go visit is Vivobarefoot. They are not as cheap as your Chinese shoe, but they are the wide-toebox, no-support, tough-as-nails-soles that you have been looking for.
https://www.vivobarefoot.com/
They are wonderful.
Oh hai, there is an HN Post... who knew. I'm the writer here... I have worn VivoBarefoot shoes. They were fine nothing more. I wasn't impressed enough to buy another pair but it's been 5 years maybe.
Those prices are astronomical, though. $240 for a pair of shoes, when according to the author of the original article, something that serves the purpose is available for a dollar a pair?!
I giggled at that!
I bought a pair of (similar-looking to the article's Chinese shoe) shoes for $17 at Target one day after I stepped into a puddle on the way to work. I figured they'd last me perhaps through the summer of occasional wear; can't expect much for $17, right? Instead I wore them everywhere for about 3 years. Comfortable in all weather and terrain except when it was wet.
I should get another pair on the way home...
You get what you pay for. These shoes last a very long time.
If you are timid about the price, they have regular clearance sales about twice a year, usually about 40% off. Just get on their mailing list. And buy quick as soon as the sale occurs!
I got my current pair on sale a couple of years ago and they are not dead yet (although fairly light use), but this year they didn't have any in stock of more than six styles I checked within hours of the sale announcement. I emailed them and they said they had been out for months. So sleazy advertising and expensive and most of the styles look horrible IMO (and, as the article complains, any style you like will no longer be made once you need another pair), but good shoes.
I'll keep an eye out for the cloth shoes. Not many options for thin sole shoes. Concrete can be horrible on shoes with softer soles, however, and the Vivobarefoot soles are the best thin soles I've seen for use on concrete.
Probably they're more expensive in the US than the UK. Wait till they have a sale and get them for 50% off.
$120 is still astronomical.
Value is dependent on the person; Vivo shoes are worth a lot to me.
I do not know another shoe that fits my extra wide feet (see my other comments in this thread).I've had foot pain from narrow shoes (before I realised my feet were so wide) that keep me from enjoying life for weeks.
I have Vivo shoes that are still perfectly fine and at least 6 years old. They last better than my expensive laptop does.
I can move in these shoes (I like "alternate" sports like parkour). I used to wear shoes that were too long, to get the width that would fit. I'd always have an empty inch in the front of the shoe getting the way whenever is tried to do tricky movements. I also really dislike stiff soled shoes now that I'm used to Vivos.
If you don't care for what Vivo offers, don't get 'em.
The price is for status signaling among runners "in the know".
I’ve had the same two pairs of Vivo Barefoots for 10 years now (since I worked with Galahad briefly at their tiny Bermondsey studio). They are excellent shoes and last a long time. The current off/road ones (which look a bit like climbing shoes) are superb.
Seconding Vivo. I've been wearing them for about a decade, from the time they were called Worn Again. Love their shoes.
But do you all go running in them? I feel the main post is about wearing out shoe with a lot of use.
I'm surprised that the author went with the vapor glove over another version of the trail glove.
I was another one of those that loved the first version. Ran them through multiple spartan races, half marathons, etc. They lasted a good 2 years before the sole really started to wear through. I remember looking for the next version during that time and seeing they were not continuing with the line. But they must have changed their mind, because they eventually came out with the trail glove 2.
I'm currently running with v2, with about a year of minimal wear on them, although it's mostly been weight training and 4 mile runs. They also seem to be continuing the line as it's now on v4. It would be interesting to see if there is any consistency on wear through the versions.
Just a few days ago I was remembering a pair of these that I picked up back in the eighties for… a school play? I liked them so much that I wore them until they disintegrated.
We picked them up from a martial arts store (this was during the Karate Kid fad), and sure enough, a quick search for "kung fu shoes" on Amazon is all it took, $10. I'm going to grab a pair as soon as spring rolls around…
Cool! After reading this article I clearly remember buying "Kung-fu shoes" in DTLA/Chinatown as a kid, they were a couple of bucks a piece and probably my favorite shoes at the time.
I also clearly remember they did very little to protect your feet from the black asphalt playground heat in the middle of summer, lol.
I'm not a runner but I am a hiker and what I learned was to buy resoleable boots (obviously this opinion is of no value to runners).
There are lots of decent midpriced boots but all have the soles glued on. Typically they don't even last 1000 miles before they wear out and need replacement. The problem is that by then they have adjusted properly to my foot!
Now i've had the same boot for almost a decade, having been resoled four times. (in that time my dog has gone through about 10 sets of boots)
Brand recommendations? The last three half hight hiking shoes I’ve bought have fallen apart in months...
Well I personally don't believe in hiking shoes; I like a solid boot with ankle support, and find the hiking shoes sacrifice performance.
Yes, they are heavy, but they protect me from all sorts of absurd trail problems (ice, rocks, mine tailings, "punji sticks", weird grades and rock edges, etc). The stiffer sole prevents arch fatigue.
(Trick, which I did first for my off the shelf Asolo boots: I had the cobbler take them apart and put in a device that was basically a plastic half pipe with a flat plate at one end. The plate went above the boot sole and under the internal sole (under my foot) and the half pipe ran up the back of my ankle. Gave be a lot of additional stability on uncertain ground and prevented pronation). Even those Asolos were only about $300 and lasted a few years; I had the sole repaired at about 400 mi and then tried again, fruitlessly, after another couple of hundred. But they were super comfortable.
I had my boots custom made from a guy I met through my (then) local camping store in the Prenzlauer Berg. Cost about 1000 Euros. Sounds like a lot but on a per mile basis they have been cheap and they fit my feet like a glove.
Your best bet would be to talk to your local cobbler (what repairs can they make?) and your camping store because you need a local network who can support your boot. Also Dave Page in Seattle is THE GURU hiking boot cobbler and may recommend something. I have found the uppers of Asolo and Vasques boots to be outstanding, and I use a pair of modified Asolos as my jungle boots.
Oh, and despite what I said about hiking "shoes", I did hike from yosemite to the desolation wilderness (tahoe-yosemite trail) in Chaco sandals which have no ankle support. I wouldn't do it again, and all my toes ended up bloody, but it was actually pretty good.
I've got a pair of Meindl walking boots still going strong after about 10 years. Not sure what their quality is like now though as I haven't had to buy another pair.
I've been a minimalist runner for about a decade at this point. Merrell disappointed me in this exact same way. They also used to have a zero drop gore-tex shoe for running in snow that they discontinued.
My best solution has been to turn towards running sandals. I've done a lot of barefoot (foot to ground) running, but the sandals provide enough protection from hot pavement and rocky trails. Also, the main reason I've had to throw away my minimalist shoes is due to how bad they smell after a while. That's not a problem with sandals.
There's a great company based out of Santa Cruz called Shamma. Leather straps and made to order for $70. I get a few thousand miles out of them. I've done hundred mile stretches on the PCT in them and even ran a 50 mile race in them. And I swear to god I do not work for the company. https://shammasandals.com/
A couple of people have asked me separately about where I found these on Taobao. Here is a link: https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.135.17cc5590...
I'm not sure it was this particular buyer I bought from, but they are approximately this. Beware, it's pretty difficult (read near-impossible) to buy off taobao without chinese because the seller will expect that you chat with them about the purchase before they ship.
The author is incorrect - his shoe is a Vapor Glove 2, not a 3 - as evidenced by the design and clearly visibly label.
And the Vapor Glove is definitely not a follow-up to the Trail Glove, it's a different shoe. Merrell still makes Trail Gloves (though yes, the design has changed both for better and worse). I'm currently considering the Trail Glove 4.
Last year, I bought two pairs of Merrell boots: A "normal" pair and a winter pair (bit more insulation, and some extra-grippy bits on the soles).
Unfortunately, trial in the store was not long enough and/or was too distracting, but on both -- different models -- the "box" of the left boot is narrow than that of right. And over the course of a few hours and/or more extensive walking, this causes my left foot to hurt from the constraint. Meanwhile, my right foot is perfectly cosy and fine.
This is not something I have experienced regularly with other brands. For some reason, that season, Merrell seemed to be making lefts smaller/narrower.
(Unfortunately, I ended up severely ill for a couple of months, two days after purchase. By the time I was well enough to consider returning them, I was too embarrassed at the time passed. And I'd gotten them on quite a good combination of sales, meaning that the store probably would have had to eat their cost, if they took them back, due to model/yearly revisions.)
P.S. I'm returning to just buying "decent" stuff from LL Bean. I seem to find less size variation in their products (e.g. jeans). And even "premium" products too often seem to be a crap shoot, these days.
Although I do love and baby my Asolo's, bought from an expert who spent an hour fitting me. Over a decade ago, now. But I'm not going to wear them out on daily tromps for exercise on our local gravel trail.
P.P.S. I also had a pair of those Chinese slippers -- looked exactly like the ones pictured. Bought somewhere in San Francisco's Chinatown. They were ok, certainly for the price, although I wouldn't run in them. Had them until I took them to a friend's, because they were obsessive about people removing their shoes. Never got them back. You can't trust your friends, either. ;-)
I just wish I could get shoes wide enough for my feet. Anything wide enough is too long (a good 4cm of wasted space at the front). I have tried supposedly extra wide shoes like Lems, but the only thing that is comfortable is either the Vibram Five Fingers or Crocs (terrible for running) or some Birkenstocks (just).
Take a look at Altra shows, their signature feature is a very wide toe box. They make a trail running shoe that's currently very popular with distance hikers.
Try skateboarding shoes, they're usually much wider than regular shoes. Don't run in them though, they have flat soles and not much arch support.
You could also try different lacing styles for running shoes, checkout this graphic for different techniques: http://d2s0f1q6r2lxto.cloudfront.net/pub/ProTips/wp-content/...
I have very wide feet. In the UK shoe measurement system a width of H is the widest. One of my feet is H, and the other one is wider. I wear Vivobarefoot https://www.vivobarefoot.com/ and they actually fit. I'm no longer buying shoes 1-2 sizes too big to fit my feet. I'm currently wearing Gobi for every day wear, and exercise in a Stealth II. All of these needed a bit of time to break in. When I tried on a Primus they were a bit tight all around, so probably best to avoid that style (or try them on yourself).
I definitely have what could be (disparagingly?) called Saxon feet. Widest width on their own are definitely not enough. The overhead image of the StealthII looks like the most promising thing I have seen for a while.
I think most specialty "wide" shoes are only normal wide, that is they're the correct width for people who don't have particularly wide feet.
I have a pair of Otz boots that I love, they look like Timberlands but have a really nice wide toe box, and a zero drop vibram lugged sole. And of course, they don't make them any more. I would have bought 3 or 4 pairs if I knew that to last me a while.
It's even worse with bike shoes, and I don't even have wide feet. I just want a pair of mountain bike shoes that don't make my toes hurt.
The widest fit bike shoes I have been able to find currently are Sidi Dominator 4s. And they are not wide enough. I had an old pair of Lake M-somethingorother that I got from Performance before they closed. They were actually comfortable. In general the MTB stuff is where its at.
New Balance used to make very wide shoes, but not needing anything that wide, I don't know whether they still do.
Yes, I used to run in a pair of New Balance wide shoes.
Now I have a pair of Mizuno Wave Inspire Wide (they are available in both normal and wide editions). They work great for me with wide feet and Morton's Toe [1].
Go to a store with a good selection and expertise and try _many_ shoes until you find a pair that fits great.
I'm on the opposite spectrum. I find that the vast majority of shoes are too wide for me. Merrils, Vibram and their ilk are the only ones that seem to be about right.
If you haven't checked your arches, you might find that you need more arch support, not wider shoes. Arch support prevents your feet from splaying out.
Thanks for all of the helpful suggestions below. Am going to be investigating them. Sorry to OP if I hijacked this at all.
This doesn't excuse Merrell's quality control at all but for a bit of consumer protection: If you purchase your shoes at REI and they fall apart like this, they'll happily provide you with a refund or replacement.
I had a pair of Trail Gloves pictured and they were great. Every pair of Merrells I've bought since have been disappointing. Either wore down too fast or were uncomfortable.
I'm kinda confused. I'm wearing a pair of trail gloves right now, and Merrel has continued to make them, incrementing a version number along the way... I wear them every day, and have been rocking them for my last four pairs of shoes, using 'em til the sole wears through.
I remember when the Trail Gloves came out, Merrell seemed to be really into minimal shoes. They even had what looked like dress shoes but with a thin and flexible sole, like the Trail Glove. Last time I looked for new shoes Merrell was pretty disappointing, it seems like the minimal shoes didn't sell well enough.
Seems like Toms are pretty similar to the Chinese shows mentioned in the article.
Toms sells $10 shoes for $40, though.
He should just coat the soles in ShoeGoo and patch as necessary. Same for the high wear areas of the cloth.
I'd love a link to where the author found those 布鞋 on TaoBao. that seems like the best bet.