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You Don't Get AMP

blog.153.io

10 points by quarterto 9 years ago · 36 comments

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colept 9 years ago

Cleverly leaves out the part where Google siphons your traffic. AMP is the trojan horse and I don't "get" those welcoming it into the gates.

  • quartertoOP 9 years ago

    If you use Cloudflare as your CDN, is Cloudflare "siphoning your traffic"?

    • soared 9 years ago

      Does cloudflare take users to a webpage that isn't yours with a header with a button that doesn't lead to your site?

      • quartertoOP 9 years ago

        The page is still yours. You have absolute control over the branding, the analytics, the monetisation. Just because it happens not to be served from your domain doesn't mean it's not yours.

        Let's also not forget that AMP is actively encouraging alternative caches: Cloudflare Ampersand[1] was announced literally an hour after my post. It's a whitelabelled AMP cache aimed at solving this exact problem.

        [1]: https://www.cloudflare.com/website-optimization/ampersand/

        • owebmaster 9 years ago

          > Just because it happens not to be served from your domain doesn't mean it's not yours.

          This is exactly what means not be yours. It's Google and they lease it to you.

        • soared 9 years ago

          Yes you still control most of it. My argument is that the traffic /would/ be going to your actual site (where you aren't limited at all) but now it is going to a google AMP page with strict limitations. Which isn't great, but the big deal is that bar on top that doesn't link to your site. That is so bad for your site and massively increases the bounce rate.

          • quartertoOP 9 years ago

            That is a sticking point for me. Alternative AMP caches (with alternative UX, e.g. Ampersand generally keeps users on your site when they bounce) go some way towards solving this, but they're not (yet?) first-class ecosystem citizens:

            > But these are just guidelines, and Google can’t guarantee they’re behaving well, so they’re not first-class citizens.

            > I’d love for this to be something you could statically verify, just like AMP HTML, so that anybody could add a Cache to the ecosystem and get a lightning bolt on Google search results and Cloudflare links and Twitter Moments™, but I’m pretty sure this reduces to the Halting Problem.

        • goodplay 9 years ago

          For now.

          AMP is a PROXY/MITM service, with all the perks that come from being such a service. There is nothing stopping google ,or whatever company owns them after they become a Yahoo!, from changing their "policy" to better be aligned with their interests.

          • quartertoOP 9 years ago

            As soon as Google stops providing value to publishers, they lose their power in the industry. For now, we work with what we have.

            • colept 9 years ago

              > As soon as Google stops providing value to publishers, they lose their power in the industry

              As soon as Google stops providing value to publishers, they are the industry.

flukus 9 years ago

> Tap a Top Stories card, and bam, you’re in the article. Takes maybe 100 milliseconds, just at the edge of perception. You can’t do that with a full page load: not on a 3G network, not on a mobile CPU.

Yes you can, quite comfortably. Pre rendering is just patching the bloated web, not fixing it. If you want to make the web better focus on less javascript, with noscript on I get AMP like speeds almost everywhere.

  • quartertoOP 9 years ago

    But that's the point: AMP allows far richer pages than just totally cutting out Javascript. Like it or not, the web is an application platform.

    • CaptSpify 9 years ago

      What does amp give me that a non-js page can't?

      Also, applications aren't the target for amp.

      • quartertoOP 9 years ago

        Can you write a carousel without JS? A live blog? Lazy loading images and ads? A stateful e-commerce product page?

        Have a look through the list of AMP components, you'll be surprised what's possible. https://www.ampproject.org/docs/reference/components

        • CaptSpify 9 years ago

          Good examples, but none of that is anything that I want. I'd much prefer small, simple, static pages to any of that. Additionally, they will load faster, and be easier to read. Those things are just trimming pages down to what Google wants, not users.

          • quartertoOP 9 years ago

            As somebody who has implemented AMP for a major newspaper, these are in fact things that publishers want.

            • flukus 9 years ago

              Adding shit because publishers want them is how things got so bloated in the first place. If it weren't for that we wouldn't need AMP.

            • CaptSpify 9 years ago

              And as a user: IDGAF what publishers want. Sorry, they had their chance and blew it. And this is the problem: Publishers increasingly are ignoring what their users want. Instead of providing quality products, they keep circling the drain to get the lowest-quality content. GLWT

        • flukus 9 years ago

          We can have all of that and have sub 100ms render times without AMP, we just have to cut out all the bloated javascript and trackers everywhere.

          Google loves AMP because they (and only they) get to still track users.

webartisan 9 years ago

As someone who has developed for mobile web, it can be surprisingly hard to push back on bloat from marketing / seo / analytics teams. I hope this becomes a W3C standard so us developers can show them the finger the next time they want to bring mobile web to a crawl.

  • CaptSpify 9 years ago

    Does Google not have any guidelines that say to keep pages small and fast? Seems like they should have a list of things to keep in mind when looking at search-rankings

    • webartisan 9 years ago

      It does, although only can only assume the effect of performance on search rankings. It's non-tangible metric as far as revenue is concerned.

      • CaptSpify 9 years ago

        Then what would be the difference between showing them the AMP standards, and just pointing them to those documents?

CaptSpify 9 years ago

Oh, I get AMP just fine. I get that it's a power play by Google. The problem AMP is trying to solve is very real. But instead of trying to fix the problem, Google is using it to take an even greater chunk of the web.

No thanks

  • quartertoOP 9 years ago

    > Google gonna Google. They’ve been dangling carrots in front of publishers for twenty-one years.

    • CaptSpify 9 years ago

      I don't buy it. If that's true, how come all of the top results I get are slow, heavy bloated sites, yet small, simple, fast sites are ~10 pages deep?

      • quartertoOP 9 years ago

        Sure, speed should be a ranking factor, but I'd much rather have a slow site that's relevant than a fast one that isn't.

        • CaptSpify 9 years ago

          How about a relevant page that is fast. We can have the best of both worlds.

          • quartertoOP 9 years ago

            Wouldn't that be nice. But Google don't control how relevant or fast something is, they can only decide how to rank them.

            • CaptSpify 9 years ago

              ... thats my point.

              This is a problem that Google created. If they would prioritize small, simple, fast sites, and rank them higher, people would make more sites like that. Google is the one pushing slow, bloated sites to the top of the list. Now they are coming in to "fix" the problem that they made.

RichardHeart 9 years ago

If you let GOOGLE control the browser, OS, search engine, keyboard, maps, and user created video content, what could possibly go wrong?

owebmaster 9 years ago

OP: You don't get HTML

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