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Show HN: Bezie – Virtual MIDI controller for complex automation

bezie.io

41 points by bezieio 9 years ago · 27 comments

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sago 9 years ago

It looks cool, Nice little app. As a Reason user, I particularly like that it does everything through midi rather than VST. I agree with the point about notes: it would be quite neat to see this overlaid on a note lane. Still, adding new features is always easy to suggest. Well done on getting this far. I can't promise to buy (I'll have to have more of a think of a use case for me) but I hope you get some custom.

Pedantic nerd point: your beziers are not beziers days, are they? Looks like Catmull-Rom - they'll that doesn't quite make such a good brand-name.

  • bezieioOP 9 years ago

    I followed De Casteljau's algorithm, not Catmull-Rom. The control points that you drag are at t=0.5 for quadratic and t=0.25 and t=0.75 for cubic beziers. De Casteljau's algorithm gave me a bit more flexibility to validate and constrain the automation curves. Thanks for the feedback!

thirdsun 9 years ago

It looks very solid, but it in my opinion it has to be very impressive to persuade me to use a third party tool instead of the automation tools that are integrated with my DAW.

I'm not trying to degrade your product, which, again, looks great, but you just targeted an area that is handled quite well in most DAWs already.

Have you considered turning this into a mobile app? Having this run on an iPad next to my keyboard with immediate access may be a better use case than alt-tabbing between my DAW and Bezie. And of course there are countless iOS DAWs that could make use of your advanced automations.

  • bezieioOP 9 years ago

    Funny - I've actually had several people ask me if this will work on mobile or tablet. I guess I can conclude that there's interest in that. I think it could definitely be an interesting project and next step for Bezie - Thanks!

  • Cshelton 9 years ago

    Now that's an idea I like. Somehow be able to have the virtual midi as an app on my IPad that can sync over wifi or even with the IPad plugged into my mac book. Be able to control the envelope automation, or other automations, with touch.

    OP, have you looked at BitWig's midi controller API? I wonder if something could be done with that. I use BitWig.

    • eropple 9 years ago

      Both TouchOSC and Lemur already exist and do this over Wi-Fi. I believe Lemur allows for XY parameter control but I'm not sure if it offers curves. (TouchOSC is more limited.)

    • bezieioOP 9 years ago

      Haven't checked that out - I'll take a look. Thanks!

TTPrograms 9 years ago

This is pretty cool. Back when I was DJing I would have definitely bought this (and may yet, if I put my setup together again).

I'd suggest showing this working with Traktor or Serato - Ableton can functionally do something like this already (with Max/MSP) in which case you're competing on UI. This sort of thing is basically impossible in Traktor, last I checked, so you're bringing a much bigger improvement to those users. The live DJ market also benefits much more from improvements to their MIDI controls. If you make a demo video like Ean Golden does with the Midi Fighter [1] or NI does with Traktor [2] I think you'd see significant interest.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13AHLkIziNY

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEP4wF1hgrM

bezieioOP 9 years ago

The original motivation of Bezie was to build a simple tool to enable finer control over bézier curve automation. It evolved from a MIDI clip generator into a MIDI controller. Bezie opens up new possibilities with cubic and quadratic bézier curves. Bezie runs as a virtual MIDI controller outside of your DAW, not as a VST. This makes MIDI mapping extremely simple and no different than mapping from a hardware controller. Bezie also has several unique features including: vertical & horizontal envelope inversion, copy & paste, grid control and concurrent envelope rendering. Bezie is built with Electron, React and Redux and takes advantage of node-midi for virtual MIDI and SVG for the automation UI.

djaychela 9 years ago

I'll give this a good workout later today. I'm a music tech teacher and use Cubase, and this fills one of the biggest holes in Cubase to my mind - bezier-type automation and the tools available for creating and manipulating that data. It looks good, but as others have mentioned, using a third-party app for this can be a little obtrusive in terms of workflow (I know there's no way round this for you, so it's not a criticism, more a statement of the unavoidable).

I've lost count of the number of times I've had to create an automation 'curve' using points to approximate a curve (particularly for filter cutoff frequency for fairly obvious reasons), so if I can find a way to integrate this well enough to make it work for me during sessions then it will be hugely appreciated. FWIW I'll give it a review on my (tiny) YT channel.

The sad thing about this is that these kind of facilities have been asked for for -years- by users of Cubase, and they haven't made it in to the feature set, despite the clear advantages they would give in creativity. I'm not a programmer (IANAP?), so I'm not sure how many man-years went into creating this, but surely it's not beyond the ken of people who have created something like Cubase to do this, or is it that there's something lurking in the code already that makes it much more difficult to do than if you do it from scratch? (Is this technical debt? I see the term sometimes)

  • bezieioOP 9 years ago

    Yeah - Bezie definitely didn't take years! It's interesting that basic curves don't exist in some DAWs. My guess is that the codebase is monolithic and there's probably lots of legacy code that is hard to touch. Hopefully Bezie works out for you and thanks so much for the review!

    • TheOtherHobbes 9 years ago

      It's more that Bezier curves are questionably useful for audio parameter automation.

      If you're automating level and panning you need assorted log/lin/exp curves, not Beziers. You also need to be able to see the waveform you're automating, which is something Bezie fails to offer.

      Parameters automation works better with standard ease in/out curves and keyframing. Beziers are a special case of a more general problem.

      This looks very nice, but I'm not sure how useful it's going to be to most users in practice.

lightedman 9 years ago

No support for note alteration? Not useful for complex automation where precise pitch variance upwards of two full octaves is needed, then, drat.

  • bezieioOP 9 years ago

    There will be more control to select specific MIDI channels per envelope in the next release, pitch bend being one of them.

peapicker 9 years ago

Looks fascinating, I expect I'd probably use it eventually. It is about $10 too high for me for a 'buy it now, learn/use it when I get the chance' -- but it will go on my backlog for when I've mastered more of Ableton Suite.

alnitak 9 years ago

Do you have plans to support automating MIDI notes or some sort of notes transformations, or is it out of the scope of this tool?

  • bezieioOP 9 years ago

    MIDI notes are definitely out of scope for Bezie - I've had a couple of ideas, but they all make sense as separate utilities.

goodmachine 9 years ago

This is quite nice, would be great on iPad. Any chance of some bounce curves?

liam_ja 9 years ago

This looks very similar to Xfer LFO Tool - how do they compare?

  • bezieioOP 9 years ago

    Bezie has some overlap, but the use case is a bit different. There are a couple of VSTs like LFO Tool and MIDIShaper that allow you to create a fixed width shape and toggle how many bars it should stretch over. In Bezie, if you select 8 bars, you'll literally get 8 bars to automate. As an example, if you wanted to map a couple different parameters to play with a song transition or drop, it'd make sense in Bezie, not so much in the others.

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