Female chess players forced to wear hijab at world championship in Iran
telegraph.co.ukThis is not appropriate. Iran should not have demanded any of this crap. This is beyond objectionable. If you are hosting a world event, you adjust to the norms of the world not the other way round. I am amazed there are apologists for this kind of behavior and top of it turning it into criticism of America.
Sounds completely illogical to me. So why don't they force the participants to convert to Islam then, if they want them to conform to its dogmas anyways?
Can a female from Papua New Guinea play without wearing a shirt in the "ultra religious" country of the USA?
According to [1], the answer seems to be yes by and large.
I think we all know in practice they would be arrested in most states, even if there were no eventual charges. (Similar to what would happen in Iran)
Why is this being down voted? Do readers of this board really think a woman chess player from Papua New Guinea would be allowed to participate in a chess tournament on American soil if she refuses to conform to the US cultural norm that requires a woman cover her upper body when outside the home?
In Boulder, yes; absolutely.
Yup, and no one got arrested in San Francisco, either (SFW, but barely):
http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Go-Topless-Day-sf-nude-nu...
> (SFW, but barely)
Isn't that exactly the point? By your own choice of words it's clear it's not culturally acceptable in the US and Europe, (except for specially designated areas/specially designated times).
Is there an example of a social norm that is acceptable in Iran, but would get you jailed in, say, Germany?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ban_on_face_covering
Yup. In France. Yet they're agitating.
Stoning someone to death? Supporting terrorism? Plenty others I figure.
Selling guns? Waterboarding? Bombing countries? Detaining people without due process? Of the top of my head.
Are we talking about social norms or the law in Iran ? because they are not the same thing. Are women required to cover their head in public in Iran, by law?
http://www.mei.edu/content/article/irans-headscarf-politics
No, it's a law. You don't just get the side-eye, you might serve some time.
Abuse of women? Raping your own wife etc.
+4 karma so far (within 25 minutes of the account creation) for objectively stupid, offensive garbage like this. Unreal.
Wearing a burkini would get you in trouble in France, I hear.
> Wearing a burkini would get you in trouble in France, I hear.
No, these city laws have been struck down by a higher authority. You can't wear a burka or a niqab though I still see women wearing that stuff in Paris suburbs, granted in places where 90% of the population is muslim and no non-muslim would dare live in.
Ssh, the worldview of half of hacker news depends on believing that such neighbourhoods in Paris, or any other European city, are inclusive and tolerant, as opposed to the violently racist attitude you find there in reality.
After all immigrants good, "that" religion good, it's all the fault of Mr. Trump, capiche ?
Rebel Media, the publishers of this piece, is Ezra Levant's project. He's a Canadian far-right agitator/performance artist with a particular hate on for Muslims. His shtick is OTT whining about Muslims and "leftists". He did, however, expose Canada's draconian quasi-judicial speech "police" as the totalitarian farce it is, so kudos for that. But for the most part he is pushing an agenda and his fact checking is...slightly biased. Just thought I'd mention that as this type of overt political stuff is usually frowned upon at HN.
Not sure why this is being posted on HN but anyway.
Iran like all countries have certain cultural norms. I am not allowed to chew gum in Singapore. I am not allowed to drink alcohol publicly in places like Dubai. I am not allowed to smoke outside in the city in parts of Australia. I am not allowed to wear full body swimsuits in parts of France. Welcome to the world.
>>Iran like all countries have certain cultural norms. I am not allowed to chew gum in Singapore. I am not allowed to drink alcohol publicly in places like Dubai. I am not allowed to smoke outside in the city in parts of Australia. I am not allowed to wear full body swimsuits in parts of France. Welcome to the world.
Need to change slightly. I, whether a man or a woman, am not allowed to chew gum in Singapore. I, whether a man or a woman, am not allowed to drink alcohol publicly in places like Dubai. I, whether a man or a woman, am not allowed to smoke outside in the city in parts of Australia. I, whether a man or a woman, am not allowed to wear full body swimsuits in parts of France. Welcome to the world.
But I, only because am a woman, and because the barbaric Islamic sharia law treats women as second class citizens, have to wear hijab/burqa in Iran (or other Islmaic country). Welcome to Islam.
edit: typo
Because I am a man, I am allowed to be topless outside in NYC. I wouldn't if I was a woman.
The hijab worn in Iran is a lot less restrictive than the hijab worn in a lost of other Muslim countries. I would join in the outrage if the chess players were forced to wear a niqab, but requiring people to wear a loose headscarf is hardly oppression of the worst degree.
Not a particularly good example, women can be topless in NYC: http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/08/24/434315957/...
Which is exactly why as many women as men are going topless in NYC, right?
I could be misguided and maybe women have less tendency of going topless. Do you have any studies at hand?
No one said it's popular, just that it's not illegal.
And I am saying that because it is legal it does not mean it is accepted. You don't have the weight of the state, but the weight of society.
My mistake. I had vague memories that it was illegal in NYC.
Substitute NYC for a city in the USA where it's illegal for women to go topless.
> Because I am a man, I am allowed to be topless outside in NYC. I wouldn't if I was a woman.
Actually, it is legal for women to be topless in New York: https://www.law.cornell.edu/nyctap/I92_0160.htm
> hardly oppression of the worst degree.
The symbolism is what is important. A government that tells you what to dress will certainly not stop with benign restrictions.
But all governments tell you how to dress in some form or another (or there's strongly ingrained beliefs that are de facto law), and it's usually different for men and women.
The question then, is where do we draw the line?
How about the rule that if you change religion, you get executed ? That one applies in Iran, doesn't it ? What does that say about muslim tolerance - in Iran and elsewhere ?
Slavery is a cultural norm. Racism a cultural norm. Sexism a cultural norm.
Just because something's a cultural norm doesn't mean you should accept it.
Social progress is made by fighting against cultural norms that treat groups of people as second-class citizens.
Gun ownership is a social norm. Free Speech in the (extreme) American sense is a social norm.
Both are widely rejected by countries, including many in Western civilization.
Still a fan of rejecting social norms that are objectionable to many of us? Or only those America doesn't hold dear?
> Gun ownership is a social norm
I am a non-American who owns a couple of firearms. I use them for hunting. There is no intrinsic wrong to firearms. They're a tool. Just like any other tool, they can be used for good or for bad.
Where do you think are you disagreeing with me?
I have stated that a society allowing private citizens to bear arms is a social norm.
You're talking about the usefulness of guns. Totally no relation.
The "Why is this on HN" post always seems to come with a judgmental comment.
It's on HN because hackers, as a whole, react to what they perceive to be injustice, or discrimination.
Hiding behind a nation's "norms" doesn't make it OK to tell foreign visiting women they need to hide themselves. Personally I don't think anywhere in the world a woman should be forced to do this, and it's all fine and good to try to find analogies like wearing shirts in public, but this is a step too far.
This isn't a nation saying their women have the right to do something, this is a nation saying all women should do this regardless of their beliefs, despite the majority of the world disagreeing with it.
Why the hell is this flagged?