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Russia’s Military Buildup in the Baltic Stokes Invasion Fears

bloomberg.com

35 points by PankajGhosh 9 years ago · 56 comments

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binarray2000 9 years ago

Can it get more silly? Russia, after disintegration of the Soviet Union, has not moved an inch to the west. NATO, on the other hand, is nearer on Russia than ever. And does military exercises near the Russian border. And builds launching pads for nuclear and anti missile rockets in Poland and Romania. And has invaded country after country (Republic of Yugoslavia 1999, Afghanistan 2001, Iraq 2003, Libya 2011...) while breaking international laws in the process. Yet, "Russia’s Military Buildup in the Baltic Stokes Invasion Fears"!

This insults intelligence of every critically thinking person.

  • rdeboo 9 years ago

    afaik Russia moved a few inches into the Crimean peninsula..

    • binarray2000 9 years ago

      Yes, those ruskies! How dare they react to the coup in Ukraine? How dare they save their naval base in Sevastopol? Base that is longer there than the US of A exist. How dare they, among other things, react to the request to tender [1] by the US Navy to renovate a school in Sevastopol and put US troops there - right in the Russian garden?

      [1] https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&id=2bb691b...

      Pay attention to the timeline. Writing of the documentation for this project had to be started at least three months prior to the publication. It was published on 2013-09-05, Euromaidan begins on 2013-11-21, 2014-03-16 Crimean referendum, 2014-04-15 tender is cancelled.

      One million dollar question: How did US Navy know in summer of 2013 that it will need a school in Sevastopol in 2014 considering that Ukraine was still under Yanukowich (and close to Russia) at that time?

      • my_first_acct 9 years ago

        Um, I'm not sure your description of the US Navy's Sevastopol School project is entirely accurate. Here is a 2014 article at RT.com, which certainly cannot be accused of pro-US bias:

        https://www.rt.com/news/154180-us-navy-crimea-charity/

        The headline: "US Navy cancels charity projects in Crimea". According to the article, the plan was to renovate School #5 in Sevastopol; the US Navy had already paid for the renovation of School #22 in Sevastopol and School #14 in Simferopol. The RT article states that "Russian media and bloggers suspect the programs were meant to butter up locals for a possible US settlement there." But it doesn't suggest that US troops would be posted there; the only US military "presence" would be a commemorative plaque on the renovated building.

    • temp 9 years ago

      And into Georgia. And into Transnistria. And of course, into other parts of Ukraine.

  • DenisM 9 years ago

    So you don't think that Russia's neighbors should unite in defense against a potentially aggressive neighbor?

    • asavinov 9 years ago

      The best way for neigbour countries (everywhere) is to switch to democracy and let their citizens decide themselves how to live similar to Brexit or referendum in Scotland.

      • mb_72 9 years ago

        Yes, and what they have chosen - in Estonia for example - is to still claim to be 'Russian' but not actually live in Russia; this is because even such 'true patriots' realise their lives are better and freer not being inside the borders of the country they claim first allegiance to. This then leaves Estonia with a bunch of malcontents not properly learning the language, and then complaining when they are discriminated against when looking for jobs.

    • jdimov10 9 years ago

      I mean, of course, it's natural that they would. Except this has nothing to do with neighbours uniting. This is American aggression at its worse.

      • DenisM 9 years ago

        What is the difference between nations uniting together in defense and nations joining a defense club?

alva 9 years ago

I am so disappointed with our Western media and their complicity in shadowy anti-Russia propaganda. I know that Russia has many faults, but over the last few years we have been drip fed so many negative stories about Russia it is crazy. It really feels like we are being mentally prepared for a war that Russia (and most of our own public!) obviously does not want. I find this terrifying.

Look at the actions of the US and NATO in regard to military drills, troop reinforcement and the number of bases and missiles they have pointed at Russia. What is going on? In the UK every month or so we are given stories about Russian aggression and the existential threat they pose to the West. When you start digging into these stories, this stance is not justified in facts.

  • thedevil 9 years ago

    You should read Russian news. Every single day, military propaganda in the headlines. Every single day, anti-EU, anti-NATO, anti-US propaganda in the headlines.

    Seriously, google a Russian news source. On their page, you'll see tanks and soldiers and fighter jets. And you'll see stories about how the west is evil and how the west is collapsing and hints that Russia needs a military buildup. And you might see a hint that eastern Europe is really Russian property "stolen" from Russia by NATO and that the anti-Russian sentiment is just the locals being "ungrateful" to Russia.

    Now look at Google News. How much military do you see? How many stories about Russia? How many supporting military buildup? We care more about the Kardashians than we do about Putin.

    This largely one-sided cold war has been going on for more than a decade.

    • knowaveragejoe 9 years ago

      This person is not joking. Just scroll down this site for an example: http://russia-insider.com/en

      Likewise, this is part of a larger, organized effort. For more information: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/09/rus...

    • Gedrovits 9 years ago

      Maybe you've not read the western news, do you? Every piece of it filled with fear of Russian, people get thrown shit without any proofs of aggression or anything else. Just to put more NATO (read: US) bases in the world close to Russian borders.

      If you think that this is "good", and Russia response is "bad", then you deserve everything what will happen because of that US politics.

      • knowaveragejoe 9 years ago

        Did you willfully ignore what the person you're responding to said? Russian news is largely constructing an alternate reality where facts don't matter, and it appears it's even working on those outside the country to some extent if your comment is any indication. Go visit some Russian news sources and look around.

        Here's an example of what's been going on:

        >Take Novorossiya, the name Vladimir Putin has given to the huge wedge of southeastern Ukraine he might, or might not, consider annexing. The term is plucked from tsarist history, when it represented a different geographical space. Nobody who lives in that part of the world today ever thought of themselves as living in Novorossiya and bearing allegiance to it—at least until several months ago. Now, Novorossiya is being imagined into being: Russian media are showing maps of its ‘geography,’ while Kremlin-backed politicians are writing its ‘history’ into school textbooks. There’s a flag and even a news agency (in English and Russian). There are several Twitter feeds. It’s like something out of a Borges story—except for the very real casualties of the war conducted in its name.

        http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/09/rus...

        • Gedrovits 9 years ago

          Ukraine is now US project, so don't even start the "annexing" shit. Because this is what did the US there.

          • activis 9 years ago

            Ukraine is sovereign unitary nation. Only brainwashed with russian propaganda can say that some country or nation is no more then someones project and putting war on it means nothing.

            It's about people and there will to be protected against crazy militant russians with stalin and putin in their minds.

  • danielvf 9 years ago

    In the last few years, Russia has militarily invaded and annexed a section of a European country without even a pretex of legitimacy.

    If I recall correctly, in the last year, the Russian government has said that it does not consider the Baltic counties independance to be legitimate.

    Russia currently has troops involved in ongoing conflicts in Ukraine, Transitaria, Armenia, and Georgia.

    To be concerned about Russia's intentions and abilities isn't fear mongering - you only have to look at the region in the last five years to see something very real happening.

    • knowaveragejoe 9 years ago

      Don't forget Syria, though NATO is also involved there. Perhaps the only legitimate thing for either of them to be involved in.

      • danielvf 9 years ago

        Yes, I left off Syria since it's not bording Russia, and because Syria would still be at war, Russia or no Russia.

    • pmyjavec 9 years ago

      "In the last few years, Russia has militarily invaded and annexed a section of a European country without even a pretex of legitimacy."

      Just depends on where you get your news really? You live in the US, it's ok to invade Syria, you live in Russia, it's ok to invade Ukraine.

      Bottom line, all war is bad, let's not pretend it's justified in some cases!

  • activis 9 years ago

    > What is going on?

    Russia is putting war on world? We have biggest war in Europe in the last 25 years at the moment.

    "Hybrid" army from Russia side which is so called "rebels" is stronger then army of any country in Europe and is actually killing people, bombing them and threatens everyone who can't protect himself. They have tanks, drones, buks, grads and more.

    It's natural to mobilize people and try to protect sovereignty of your country isn't it?

    Unfortunately all I can see from west side of globe is "green-peace" and hippie-like talking about peace and "talking" with russia. At the same time russian soldiers are killing hundreds people each day saying "they humiliated russian speaking people".

    Wake up. Otherwise you'll experience war one way or another at home. And it is not propaganda. It is reality.

  • geoka9 9 years ago

    You should watch some Russian TV. They've been preparing their people for a war every since the latter half of Putin's presidency. Have no doubt, it's a crazy world they are living in - basically a state-sponsored death cult.

    • thedevil 9 years ago

      You beat me to the comment. I never worried about Russia growing up but then I started reading Russian news 10-15 years ago. It was Russian news, not western news, that made me realize that Russia is a threat.

  • temp 9 years ago

    >In the UK every month or so we are given stories about Russian aggression

    There's your answer - you're from the UK, so you've yet to experience its aggression. Other countries in Russia's neighbourhood have experienced it (Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, pre-1990 Hungary, Czechoslovakia, etc).

  • joss82 9 years ago

    You are right, this smells very bad.

    It looks like the hate propaganda they had just before the Balkan wars.

    Very bad.

  • Gedrovits 9 years ago

    All this "news" on HN should be banned along with the users who posted this. Leave the HN alone without your propaganda.

Animats 9 years ago

This is getting scary. So far, Russia has bitten off a piece of Georgia, wiped out Georgia's navy, taken Crimea, wiped out Ukraine's navy, and has an ongoing war with Ukraine. And they got away with all of it.

Ukraine thought it had a security guarantee from the US and the UK.[1] That's why they gave up the nuclear weapons they had left over from their USSR days. When the crunch came, they weren't defended by the US and the UK.

So far, Russia hasn't attacked a NATO member country. So far.

This could lead to WWIII.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Securit...

  • Gedrovits 9 years ago

    Should we start what US taken on the East and how many countries invaded and annexed?

    Maybe you're blind not to see that US makes Cuban crisis but in the whole World scale. And those small countries are just pawns which will be 'taken' in the big game.

    The more anti-missile systems they put in the Europe, the less chance they will be hit by nukes, but nobody talks about the fate of those Europe countries.

    It's the latest US way of dealing with countries growing better or in the same pace as they. They use the tactic of "color revolutions", it worked in many other countries before, so why not use that until the war happens, yea?

    Let's build the TODO list of owning other country:

    1) Choose any country you are interested in (not the big ones of course, they can hit you, you don't want that) 2) Send your military advisors and boxes of money to support "opposition" of let's say few thousands people (which is a less than 1% of population) 3) Make them start "peaceful protests" in capital and actively cover all those events in media, showing only one side of "tyrant leader" 4) When legal forces of country will start preventing that, call them tyranny and prevent and use sanctions and fear to prevent or even easier, start bombing them util all loyal forces remain (with NATO forces and US allies) 5) Collect your profits, put your own people in government, collect resources and plant military bases in the region. If non 1% of population starts to protest, just use military and police to make them suffer.

    This worked in Iraq, Syria, Turkey and Ukraine.

    • activis 9 years ago

      It's your personal ravings about "US owns Ukraine". Ukraine is sovereign nation despite russia which constantly tries to destabilize, detroy and "own" it.

      I am disgusted to read this crazy russian delirium.

plandis 9 years ago

So it's propaganda that Russia just took land Ukraine, is it? Russia has built little trust with the western world and unfortunately you reap what you sow.

  • jdimov10 9 years ago

    Russia took what it could - it would be stupid not to. Hardly a sign of aggression. More a sign of abysmal western political and military incompetence and lack of purpose / direction.

    • pavlov 9 years ago

      Russia took Crimea because "it could". United States could annex British Columbia if it wanted to. Wouldn't that be aggression?

      • jdimov10 9 years ago

        Yea, good luck with that :)

        But if it really could, you bet your ass it would!

        • pavlov 9 years ago

          World politics is not a game of Risk. You don't just throw the dice against the other guys every turn and see what you can grab, like Putin seems to be doing.

          • meddlepal 9 years ago

            Putin's doing it because he realizes he is not going to be challenged. He is basically demonstrating the western military powers are all show.

jdimov10 9 years ago

Just to clarify my comments here. I'm not in any way suggesting that Putin is an angel. He (personally) is a thug, a thieve, a liar and a murderer. His government reflects all of this.

Yet I have FAR more respect for him than for ANY western politician. Putin is transparent. He goes after what he wants in an unapologetic way. It is very easy to see right through everything that he does and is also quite predictable.

Western politicians, on the other hand, seem UTTERLY clueless, impotent and chaotic. They are weak in a way that is repulsive.

And no, lining up untold billions of dollars of military equipment alongside Russia's border is NOT a show of strength. It is the opposite.

  • activis 9 years ago

    Putin is lining up untold billions of dollars of military equipment not alongside Russia's border but outside like in Ukraine.

mb_72 9 years ago

Cue invasion of the Putin-sponsored posters or raging Russian patriots in 3 2 1 ... Russians are fed, and very often believe, a state-sponsored reality that blames the West for internal problems.

  • knowaveragejoe 9 years ago

    Oh, they've been here the entire time. Some of the first posts were obvious pro-Russian garbage.

DenisM 9 years ago

I don't think discussion is turning out constructive. For one thing no one is actually discussing the contents of the article.

It should really be nuked from the orbit. dang?

  • zzzcpan 9 years ago

    Troll army accounts are the ones causing the problem, not the article itself. It happens a lot on these kind of topics.

jdimov10 9 years ago

Does NATO actually do anything useful these days, other than frantically freak out about Russia?

ivanb 9 years ago

This propaganda piece doesn't belong on Hacker News.

activis 9 years ago

Russia has annexed Crimea. ANNEXED!

Russian tanks, grads and soldiers are killing people in Ukraine every day This cannot have any excuses.

Your logic makes me feel disgust.

  • dang 9 years ago

    You can't comment like this here, and HN is no place for political rants and flamewars.

    We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12066283 and marked it off-topic.

  • asavinov 9 years ago

    > Russia has annexed Crimea. ANNEXED!

    Afaik, that was a decision of the people who live in Crimea on the referendum. It is like Brexit or referendum in Scotland. For example, now UK leaves EC, so in the same way Crimea has left Ukrain. It is how democracy works.

    • activis 9 years ago

      1. Does it look like legitimate "referendum" to you? http://pda.pravo.ru/store/doc/image/20160316120226.jpg

      2. Constitution of Ukraine states that only citizens of whole country and not locals can decide such questions, _ANY_ local referendum regarding sovereignty is illegal.

      So NO IT IS NOT LIKE BREXIT or referendum in Scotland. Ukraine is unitary country.

      So it is how russian troops work not democracy.

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