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Recognizing magic as a rare and valuable art form and national treasure

congress.gov

22 points by adamdonahue 10 years ago · 43 comments

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Aardwolf 10 years ago

The English language seems to be missing some word that other languages have.

In Dutch, "goochelen", performed by a "goochelaar" is doing tricks in a show, where you know it's all illusions but it's still very impressive. On the other hand, "toveren", done by a "tovenaar" would be doing something supernatural. Typically a "goochelaar" is somebody on a stage with a black top hat, while a "tovenaar" is more like an old man with a long white beard and a purple pointy hat in fiction.

In English, both seem to be called "magic". It's very confusing...

  • bitJericho 10 years ago

    "...Illusion, Michael. A trick is something a whore does for money... (looks at the kids) or cocaine!"

    We call them magic shows in general, but some magician's call themselves illusionists. If we're talking about supernatural magic, sometimes we use the variant magick.

  • eric_h 10 years ago

    The fact that they quote Arthur C. Clarke saying "any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic" plays into this ambiguity. Most of what they're talking about here is "illusion", but I think that quote from Arthur C. Clarke is really referencing the supernatural meaning of the word "magic".

  • grblovrflowerrr 10 years ago

    On the other hand though "magician" unambiguously refers to a person that performs stage magic, in a modern context at least.

    • AndyNemmity 10 years ago

      Magician contains in it stage magic, as well as street magic, parlor magic and other forms. It doesn't limit itself to the stage.

  • nrclark 10 years ago

    In American English, a 'magician' is somebody who pulls rabbits out of hats, and a 'wizard' is somebody who does supernatural things. We don't have as good of a separation for goochelen/toveren, but most Americans would use 'magic tricks' for goochelen and just 'magic' for toveren.

  • 99_00 10 years ago

    Historically, 'magicians' have intentionally cloaked their illusions in the supernatural, so it makes sense they claim to be masters of the supernatural. So the confusion is intentional.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/19/Thurston...

  • takluyver 10 years ago

    'Conjuring tricks' performed by a 'conjuror', are unambiguously impressive deceit, not actual magic. 'Prestidigitation' is another term, if you like your language flowery. But yes, 'magic' and (to a lesser extent) 'wizardry' are ambiguous.

  • ethanbond 10 years ago

    A lot of English speakers will use the word "illusions" instead of magic for... well... illusions.

    You don't have to use that word so maybe it's weaker than the Dutch "goochelaar," but a lot of people do.

  • neaden 10 years ago

    We do, it's prestidigitation but no one really uses it.

  • jloughry 10 years ago

    The word you want in English might be 'prestidigitation'.

Aelinsaar 10 years ago

It's nice to see that lobbying isn't just for large corporations, but vegas showmen can milk this ridiculous, broken system too. /s

  • ethanbond 10 years ago

    And environmental groups. And human rights groups. And consumer rights groups. And safety advocacy groups... etc.

    • Aelinsaar 10 years ago

      Yes, but they're not so well funded, and their positions are fundamentally harder to communicate than simple, manipulative, well funded campaigns. It's like comparing a pre-school and a military school because they both share the words "School". You won't be totally wrong of course, but you will have missed the point.

      • ethanbond 10 years ago

        I don't disagree, but a lot of people don't understand that the term "lobbying" in fact does not just refer to evil corporations bribing politicians, and thus should not be categorically made illegal.

        • Aelinsaar 10 years ago

          I think it's worth remembering that when people talk about "Lobbying", they are often talking about a particular subset of lobbying attached to extremely vast sources of money and power. More, the unrestricted nature of that lobbying, in practice, breaks the system down.

          It would be the case if this were happening with well-intentioned environmentalists too, although I'm sure it would look very different in the particulars. The fact is though, that in history doesn't teach us to be concerned about vastly wealthy and powerful environmental interests. Maybe that will change someday, but it's not the history of our planet at least.

          tl;dr Context

      • pc86 10 years ago

        Funny how the minute we don't like something it becomes manipulative.

        • Aelinsaar 10 years ago

          I think I was pretty clear that the amount of money and power existing in asymmetry is the issue, not whether I like it or not.

  • AndyNemmity 10 years ago

    How much money was used in lobbying for this? I'd be shocked if the number was all that high.

    It's a pet complaint within Magic circles that Magic should be treated like an art form, but I wouldn't expect anyone to actually throw a large sum behind it.

  • GFK_of_xmaspast 10 years ago

    Turns out that people, technically speaking, have a constitutional right to petition their government.

presidentender 10 years ago

But why? I am reminded of Davy Crockett's "Not yours to give" speech.

  • Aelinsaar 10 years ago

    Because of a strong lobby, especially from David Copperfield. As usual, just follow the money.

    • adamdonahueOP 10 years ago

      Reads like an advertisement for Copperfield. But in terms of advancing the art form and of classic prestidigitation, I can think of no better current practitioner than Ricky Jay.

      • AndyNemmity 10 years ago

        There are so many people, it'd be difficult to compile a list and not leave anyone out. It's a rich field.

    • swamp40 10 years ago

      How does the money get back to David Copperfield?

      • AndyNemmity 10 years ago

        Generally I don't think it does. Magic is an art form, and a love by many. The same fanatical support that artists, or musicians have for their craft, magicians have for theirs.

        So quite often magicians do things for the benefit of the whole craft, versus any individual gain.

        If you imagine it like other arts, it starts to make sense in my view.

nickpeterson 10 years ago

And for their first trick, getting this through both houses and signed into law by the president. That would be the illusion of functioning government...

nailer 10 years ago

Magic is already recognised on bank notes and in the pledge of allegiance.

smitty1110 10 years ago

Where's Penn and Teller when we need them?

elthran 10 years ago

>Whereas magic enables people to experience the impossible

Someone really didn't put much thought into this statement.

And all the references to Project Magic does lead me to consider who put them up to proposing this

  • ealexhudson 10 years ago

    What's wrong with "experience the impossible"? Seems like a reasonable description of the situation to me, that's the whole point of magic.

    • tazjin 10 years ago

      If magic existed it would, by definition, be neither impossible nor supernatural.

      • ealexhudson 10 years ago

        Thanks for explaining that to me.

        The ordinary experience for someone viewing a magic act is that something impossible has happened. The fact that we know, logically, that it cannot be the case doesn't change the fact that what we experience is impossible. It's unexplainable by the majority of viewers.

        If the argument is "magic doesn't exist, therefore what you experienced is entirely normal and unremarkable" then frankly the interlocutor just don't get the point of why people watch magic.

  • leblancfg 10 years ago

    I agree that it sounds like lobbying. That being said, I think illusionists are definitely practitioners of an art form in its own right, so, good on them.

    >Whereas magic enables people to experience the impossible

    Now you're just playing with the fact that "magic" has two meanings, even if the context is well understood. The sentence is clearly worded, and the only logical interpretation is akin to "video games enable people to experience the impossible", which I find totally valid.

  • tazjin 10 years ago

    Marketing for the new, US-focused Harry Potter movie? :)

pklausler 10 years ago

It's really awesome to finally see conservative Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives quote gays and atheists in the text of their proposed legislation.

taylorwc 10 years ago

Anyone else picturing Rep. Sessions as holding a sign saying, "We Demand to Be Taken Seriously"?

13of40 10 years ago

It makes more sense once you realize they're talking about bunny-in-hat magic and not magic magic.

ommunist 10 years ago

I believe this motion is to support surviving First Nations culture.

xiphias 10 years ago

Is this to improve taxation for David Copperfield or to get money in some other form from the government?

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